The Zeitgeist Movement.

[Lauchlin]

I'm not trying to. If I gave a shit about being rich, I wouldn't have spent the last decade getting English degrees. So either I'm not a human, or the drive to amass riches is not human nature.

That's just you then, for the moment. I've spoken to a few people who would like to become rich.

Who gives a shit? "Human nature" would be, by definition, universal. One exception means it's not the case.

Again, either I am not human (along with anyone else who has a degree in the humanities), or that drive is not part of human nature.

[Vonners]

well I like AI's, Science and automation...am slightly anti social and really do hate politics (in that it really does tend to fuck things up) but this Zeitgeist stuff is blatant bollocks.

There's a difference between liking something and going gaga over it.

if it were possible (in that if I have the dosh) my house would be a data centre...

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That's just you then, for the moment. I've spoken to a few people who would like to become rich.

Who gives a shit? "Human nature" would be, by definition, universal. One exception means it's not the case.

Then do you believe is human nature to have sex?

[Conserative Morality]

Who gives a shit? "Human nature" would be, by definition, universal. One exception means it's not the case.

Again, either I am not human (along with anyone else who has a degree in the humanities), or that drive is not part of human nature.

Not necessarily. Just because your greed does not override your desire to get a degree in the humanities does not mean that you have no greed.

[Galloism]

Who's to say they aren't trying to? I would like to amass riches. I can't at the moment, but I am working towards it. And I know my personal stance amounts to nothing. But who's to say that others have the desire yet can't amass riches because their situations do not permit it?

I'm not trying to. If I gave a shit about being rich, I wouldn't have spent the last decade getting English degrees. So either I'm not a human, or the drive to amass riches is not human nature.

Clearly you're not human. Please report to Area 51 for processing.

I'm not sure if it's human nature to want to be "rich", but it seems to be human nature to want to amass wealth.

I would say so, or we would not have mass investment in 401(k) plans, retirement incentives, deferred compensation, stock options, or other such avenues. These things are all efforts to amass wealth. Granted, they're a means to an end, but most everyone desires some wealth at some level.

[Lauchlin]

Who gives a shit? "Human nature" would be, by definition, universal. One exception means it's not the case.

Again, either I am not human (along with anyone else who has a degree in the humanities), or that drive is not part of human nature.

Not necessarily. Just because your greed does not override your desire to get a degree in the humanities does not mean that you have no greed.

The argument isn't whether or not every human has some degree of greed in their character, it's whether or not they are driven to become rich over all else so that no economic system based on anything but assuming that economic greed is a universal motivating factor could work.

Then do you believe is human nature to have sex?

No, although some people would argue that only unhealthy humans don't have sex drives. Even if someone were to argue that, it would be absurd to argue that any proportion of the population that isn't an entrepreneur, in business school, or in one of a few high paying professions isn't human. Material wealth is one of many things that motivates people, and is not something that all people value equally. It is therefore not "human nature" to value economic wealth above all else.

[Hydesland]

Again, either I am not human (along with anyone else who has a degree in the humanities), or that drive is not part of human nature.

Or your drive for wealth is already easily satisfied by your current western living standards. Would you have the same attitude if you were a poor subsistence farmer in Africa?

[Conserative Morality]

The argument isn't whether or not every human has some degree of greed in their character, it's whether or not they are driven to become rich over all else so that no economic system based on anything but assuming that economic greed is a universal motivating factor could work.

Every human has greed in their character to some degree, so a system that harnesses this trait rather then ignoring or denying it will be far more successful than one that does not.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

No, although some people would argue that only unhealthy humans don't have sex drives. Even if someone were to argue that, it would be absurd to argue that any proportion of the population that isn't an entrepreneur, in business school, or in one of a few high paying professions isn't human. Material wealth is one of many things that motivates people, and is not something that all people value equally. It is therefore not "human nature" to value economic wealth above all else.

Then what would you classify as human nature?

I do feel that it is human nature to want to amass wealth but not necessarily the most important thing nor did I say it was.

[Genivar]

The argument isn't whether or not every human has some degree of greed in their character, it's whether or not they are driven to become rich over all else so that no economic system based on anything but assuming that economic greed is a universal motivating factor could work.

Every human has greed in their character to some degree, so a system that harnesses this trait rather then ignoring or denying it will be far more successful than one that does not.

That is untrue. People only develop greediness because that is what they are taught in the dog eat dog culture of monetarism.
Don't make me bring the native americans lack of greed into this.

[Urstania]

I think every human being just wants to have freedom to do and think as they please, security to be able to eat and feed themselves, to have a comfortable standard of living.

But most people think to achieve that end is to get lots of money. so some people assume its human nature to be greedy and be wealthy and find happiness in having a lot of money but thats not true at all.

Wouldnt is be better to find a way that humans can achieve that goal I stated wihtout thinking they need money to get there. The venus project is about a social system that can give that to humans and once a human can achieve that state where a roof over their head and food are guaranteed and the individual has the choice to do whatever they want in their day instead of working to some schdule work system (slaves to jobs they hate becuase they need the money eg wage slavery)

I think the whole myth of humans are greedy fuckers that care about nothing but money would evaporate quickly. Ofcourse im sure some humans that have a problem with their ego would still attempt to manipulate other humans to suite their own ends by finding some other way to disenfanchise people or coerce them. However it would be much harder for humans like that to operate then it is for them to operate in this current society

[Hydesland]

Don't make me bring the native americans lack of greed into this.

Source?

Also, explain why the soviet union completely failed to suppress the black market, even when children were indoctrinated against the 'dog eat dog' culture?

Why has effectively every culture developed into a monetary or barter based economy, if it is so against human nature?

[Conserative Morality]

That is untrue. People only develop greediness because that is what they are taught in the dog eat dog culture of monetarism.
Don't make me bring the native americans lack of greed into this.

I'm not sure you understand what monetarism actually means or what a gift economy actually suggests. A gift economy does not eliminate greed, but rather transfers thoughts of material wealth into social capital.

[Galloism]

Every human has greed in their character to some degree, so a system that harnesses this trait rather then ignoring or denying it will be far more successful than one that does not.

That is untrue. People only develop greediness because that is what they are taught in the dog eat dog culture of monetarism.
Don't make me bring the native americans lack of greed into this.

Hmmmm.....

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Don't make me bring the native americans lack of greed into this.

Source?

Also, explain why the soviet union completely failed to suppress the black market, even when children were indoctrinated against the 'dog eat dog' culture?

Why has effectively every culture developed into a monetary or barter based economy, if it is so against human nature?

Don't you know? This is all obviously a myth created by them ebil Capilizts!

[Greater Tezdrian]

Con artists masquerading as an anarchist movement masquerading as a "non-political activist" group. Stupid people and thier supporters make me sadfaced.

[Unchecked Expansion]

They fail pretty hard at being anarchists and leftists. It's the old technocratic babbling dressed up in new form. It really isn't anything new, and like always, it's not coherent in any sense of the term.

Zeitgeist is a political vision for anti-social people who hate politics but go gaga over things like AI, "Science!" and automation.

well I like AI's, Science and automation...am slightly anti social and really do hate politics (in that it really does tend to fuck things up) but this Zeitgeist stuff is blatant bollocks.

Technology will never lead to 'post scarcity'. If that's their aim, they're a bunch of naive utopians with their head in a sci fi story, and I say that as a card carrying nerd (3 cards in fact)

And yeah, a free, classless world of shared knowledge, resources and prosperity? Sounds pure Marxist to me

[Lauchlin]

No, although some people would argue that only unhealthy humans don't have sex drives. Even if someone were to argue that, it would be absurd to argue that any proportion of the population that isn't an entrepreneur, in business school, or in one of a few high paying professions isn't human. Material wealth is one of many things that motivates people, and is not something that all people value equally. It is therefore not "human nature" to value economic wealth above all else.

Then what would you classify as human nature?

Human nature would be basic drives that all healthy humans feel. Feed themselves, come in out of the cold, avoid wasted effort (maybe?). That's why it's such a useless term. Like I said before, people use it to attempt to universalize things that are not universal. Any time anyone makes a claim about human nature, there's a pretty big chance they are just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

[Zeth Rekia]

Actually, if any one of you had read a book in your lives youd know that nurture is far more important than nature in terms of human socialization. On the count of Zeitgeist, it'd probably fail because of capitalist competition getting in the way. The same happened for communism. Though, communism took a dive because those who formed societies around it, or tried to, didn't follow it's principles.

Arguing that human nature means everything in a society is absolutely retarded. Without another human to teach a child how to walk, the child will not learn how to walk. Simple as that.

[Genivar]

Then what would you classify as human nature?

Human nature would be basic drives that all healthy humans feel. Feed themselves, come in out of the cold, avoid wasted effort (maybe?). That's why it's such a useless term. Like I said before, people use it to attempt to universalize things that are not universal. Any time anyone makes a claim about human nature, there's a pretty big chance they are just trying to avoid unpleasant truths.

The most basic animal needs would be food, water, air, and shelter .
Human needs go on to include clothing, education, medicine, and the company of others.

[Greater Tezdrian]

OP, I assume you support the Zeitgeist Movement & Company?

[Genivar]

That is untrue. People only develop greediness because that is what they are taught in the dog eat dog culture of monetarism.
Don't make me bring the native americans lack of greed into this.

Hmmmm.....

Only long after Europeans forced their system on them.
Nowadays they are forced to compete in the same monetary that everyone else must or die from starvation.

[Genivar]

OP, I assume you support the Zeitgeist Movement & Company?

After spending 2 hours watching the Zeitgeist Addendum movie I cannot think of any reason not to support it.

[Meryuma]

On the count of Zeitgeist, it'd probably fail because of capitalist competition getting in the way. The same happened for communism.

"Communism" (I assume you mean Leninism) failed because of its bureaucratic, centralized method of social organization. It wasn't from capitalist competition.

[Greater Tezdrian]

OP, I assume you support the Zeitgeist Movement & Company?

After spending 2 hours watching the Zeitgeist Addendum movie I cannot think of any reason not to support it.

I shame, so 'tis. I took 'ye' for a sensible man.