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The "Get The Cat-Tribe A Commendation Project"

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Unibot
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The "Get The Cat-Tribe A Commendation Project"

Postby Unibot » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:21 am

Image The "Get The Cat-Tribe A Commendation Project" Image
Hosted by Unibot


A commendation is a formal piece of World Assembly legislation that once passed, displays a shiny badge on nations (players) and regions who the World Assembly recognizes as having made outstanding contributions. Historically, the focus of the commendations have always been on either gameplayers (people who play the game) or roleplayers (participate on these forums as nations).. but there has been a great hesitancy to focus a commendation on a nominee who is neither a gameplayer or a roleplayer, but a generalite. However, with some clever wording, the Cat-Tribe's contributions to NSG can easily be nominated in a commendation as the contributions of a nation who is centric to numerous international debates. A commendation must be legal under the various rules of the Security Council [1][1½]. Essentially the rules are there to make sure that (1) all communities (roleplay and non-roleplay) can participate in the debate for the commendation, (2) the cornerstone of the game, "nation-simulation" is respected. I believe it is a testament to the Cat-Tribe, to challenge a negative social norm in the Security Council, whilst also honoring the egalitarian intentions behind the Security Council's laws.

The Mission?



Image
Essentially, I, Unibot of the World Assembly Security Council, want to commend the Cat-Tribe, native of ye old NSG plains, for his civil decorum, informed and constructive debate and perhaps his work on a WA resolution that you may or may not have know he passed, only to end the abortion debate in the World Assembly[2]. It's a part of a challenge I have with a good friend, and a personal campaign of mine to get the Security Council to represent more than just your average gameplayer or roleplayer. Rhodmhire was actually the likely and popular candidate a few months ago for a commendation [3], but in retrospect, a candidate like the Cat-Tribe makes more sense because decorum is something that certainly an international body like the World Assembly can appreciate.

So this project is certainly about much more than just getting your red-text lovin' lawyer some recognition, but also about opening the doors up in the Security Council to recognizing the contributions of generalities. Perhaps in the future, it will become the norm for the Security Council to recognize civil and well-articulated generalities who contribute quite a bit of wisdom and information in their posts, but until some milestones are made, any commendation thread for a generalite will be more about NS General's recognition by the other sectors of the game than the actual nominee. This is the unfortunate truth, and I wish I could commend the Cat-Tribe as a generalite under different circumstances, where the focus would entirely be on just the Cat-Tribe as a nominee and not an entire community's social recognition. Nevertheless, the ball must begin to roll somewhere and I think there is no one more fitting to begin it with than Cat-Tribe. I have asked him for his permission to endeavor to get him a commendation -- he, classy as ever, accepted with honor.

So What Can I Do?



Feeling a little confused about why I am telling you all this? Well, essentially I would like NSGers to use this thread as a crowdsourcing thread for the formation of the resolution. I'm going to be actually composing and writing the resolution -- because it would be extremely cheesy of me to have you do all the work. But it seemed only appropraite to "ask what NSG thinks?" in regards to the Cat-Tribe getting a commendation. Perhaps, you just want to endorse this project, that's fine, any showing of approval for Cat-Tribe will only help to strength our project. Maybe you have posts/threads that exemplifies the Cat-Tribe's civility and decorum? Or maybe you just want to debate the actual merits of opening Security Council to the NS General (and vice versa)? In Short: This thread is for NS General's response and philosophical position in regards to said commendation, and any further help that NSG wishes to provide me in (1) writing this commendation (2) realizing the dream of a NSG commendation (player testimonies may be used in the resolution, and certainly will be noted in the WA debate thread).

Image Commend the Cat-Tribe
A resolution to recognize outstanding contribution by a nation or region.
Category: Commendation | Nominee: The Cat-Tribe | Proposed by: Unibotian WA Mission


Description: A recognition of the Cat-Tribe’s extensive history of civil decorum and well informed debate in activities specific to the World Assembly and in general.

The World Assembly,

RECOGNIZING a civil, but nonetheless productive debate on the topic of Abortion in the World Assembly was the result of the Cat-Tribe’s resolution, the Reduction of Abortion (GA#44),

NOTING that the Reduction of Abortion (GA#44) protected national sovereignty on the issue of Abortion’s legality, but made a groundbreaking compromise that as a result has permitted a comprehensive sex education to help reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies in all member-nations,

FURTHER NOTING the countless lives that GA#44 has undoubtedly bettered in (1) nations with otherwise high obstetric death rates, (2) nations where the prohibition of Abortion would have been the source of more dangerous self-induced abortions,

APPLAUDING the constructiveness that can follow when debate is abetted with the decorum, civility and thoughtful meticulousness that The Cat-Tribe has demonstrated in the World Assembly, but also in general,

IMPRESSED that The Cat-Tribe has been awarded twice (an unchallenged feat) for the ‘Grand Prix for General Debating’ award in the 8th and 10th Poster Awards which recognizes "excellency in the Fields of General Debating and Posting",

ACKNOWLEDGING The Cat-Tribe's thorough willingness --in the spirit of goodwill-- to thoughtfully explain topics upon request,

CELEBRATING the polices of The Cat-Tribe in general discussion and debate, which include:

UNDERSTANDING that as an exemplary model of constructive, critical, informed and civil debate, The Cat-Tribe's forum and general conduct will help future generations of NationStates establish further resolutions of peace and goodwill,

For the sake of posterity,
HEREBY COMMENDS The Cat-Tribe.


References


Last edited by Unibot on Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:40 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:23 am

No, no, no, NO! I'm sorry, but I don't care for his posts. I'm sorry, to quote a comment somebody else made about them, they are dull, they are tedious and remind me of reading the tax code. Not to mention whenever you dare to disagree with him, he'll frequently use :palm: those to show you how superior he is to everybody else. So no.
Last edited by Mike the Progressive on Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:36 am

I have no qualms with the SC being opened up to General or other parts of the forum (Indeed, I welcome it, R4 debates aside) and I agree that TCT is a worthy target for the first one...

And I think that if you, Uni, were complaining about the destruction of the SC community before, opening the door and letting us Generalites into it is going to give you more than you bargened for. :p
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Hammurab
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Postby Hammurab » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:42 am

Would Cat-Tribes want any proposal that needed to be "disguised", or that sought to "circumvent" a rule?

I went to Law School because of Cat-Tribes. He impresses me that much.

However, if I understand him at all, I think he would sooner advocate a rule reform, or perhaps the establishment of a general forum commendation, rather than seek the commendation as proposed here. (Even still, he'd likely demure from any commendation at all, but I strongly suspect he particularly wouldn't want an award in this fashion).

May I propose that we petition the appropriate powers to establish a commendation for one's contributions to the general forum, perhaps even name it after Cat-Tribes?
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Unibot
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Postby Unibot » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:44 am

NERVUN wrote:And I think that if you, Uni, were complaining about the destruction of the SC community before, opening the door and letting us Generalites into it is going to give you more than you bargened for. :p


*deep breath* You guys seriously could never challenge the exquisite talent as a troll that a gifted few individuals have demonstrated by derailing the Security Council for years.

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Panzerjaeger
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Postby Panzerjaeger » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:47 am

Unibot wrote:
NERVUN wrote:And I think that if you, Uni, were complaining about the destruction of the SC community before, opening the door and letting us Generalites into it is going to give you more than you bargened for. :p


*deep breath* You guys seriously could never challenge the exquisite talent as a troll that a gifted few individuals have demonstrated by derailing the Security Council for years.

You haven't even given me a chance yet. :(
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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:48 am

Unibot wrote:
NERVUN wrote:And I think that if you, Uni, were complaining about the destruction of the SC community before, opening the door and letting us Generalites into it is going to give you more than you bargened for. :p


*deep breath* You guys seriously could never challenge the exquisite talent as a troll that a gifted few individuals have demonstrated by derailing the Security Council for years.

Some raiders thought the same until they attempted an invasion of a region of a well known Generalite. ;)
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Intangelon
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Postby Intangelon » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:48 am

Mike the Progressive wrote:No, no, no, NO! I'm sorry, but I don't care for his posts. I'm sorry, to quote a comment somebody else made about them, they are dull, they are tedious and remind me of reading the tax code. Not to mention whenever you dare to disagree with him, he'll frequently use :palm: those to show you how superior he is to everybody else. So no.

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Intangelon
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Postby Intangelon » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:52 am

This idea is fine in conception, but if one were to analyze TCT's character, one would come to the same conclusion as 'Ammu did.

TCT's record speaks for itself. The OP, by linking to a couple of TCT's triumphs of sense and source over blather and bluster has already done his history a great service.

We should indeed never forget, but I don't think circumvention of proper channels is a fitting memorial for someone so dedicated to finding and presenting the truth.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:56 am

Mike the Progressive wrote:No, no, no, NO! I'm sorry, but I don't care for his posts. I'm sorry, to quote a comment somebody else made about them, they are dull, they are tedious and remind me of reading the tax code. Not to mention whenever you dare to disagree with him, he'll frequently use :palm: those to show you how superior he is to everybody else. So no.


Indeed. Facts can be so tiring. :palm:
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:59 am

Hammurab wrote:I went to Law School because of Cat-Tribes. He impresses me that much.


You visited a building because of him?

:p
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:59 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:No, no, no, NO! I'm sorry, but I don't care for his posts. I'm sorry, to quote a comment somebody else made about them, they are dull, they are tedious and remind me of reading the tax code. Not to mention whenever you dare to disagree with him, he'll frequently use :palm: those to show you how superior he is to everybody else. So no.


Indeed. Facts can be so tiring. :palm:


On the contrary, they are enlightening, but how it is presented is what makes the difference.

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Unibot
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Postby Unibot » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:00 am

Hammurab wrote:However, if I understand him at all, I think he would sooner advocate a rule reform, or perhaps the establishment of a general forum commendation, rather than seek the commendation as proposed here. (Even still, he'd likely demure from any commendation at all, but I strongly suspect he particularly wouldn't want an award in this fashion).

May I propose that we petition the appropriate powers to establish a commendation for one's contributions to the general forum, perhaps even name it after Cat-Tribes?


It ain't happening. Sorry. The best we can do is work to comply with the system. Perhaps, sneaky words like 'circumvent' are bad choices in words. Really what we're doing is finding a common language so that all can enjoy the commendation, not just generalities, and ultimately, the resolution can respect the cornerstone of what this game is made on ("Nation-Simulation"). Therefore the text needs to be accessible to roleplayers. We shouldn't look at this as being ethnic oppression, but an idealistic egalitarianism -- something we should be proud to commit to.

Because at one time I felt the same way as you do, Hammurab, I sent Max Barry an email,
Ard created a new rule, called Rule IV. It mandated the following..

4. Your proposal was written entirely Out Of Character, either by
(a) referring directly to the player rather than to the NationStates nation itself, or
(b)talking about the game as if it's a game while still playing the game, or
(c) writing in the first person (eg, "I think", "I feel", "I believe". Try "my nation feels", "my government believes", etc.)

Remember that C&Cs are meant to be NationStates nations commenting on the actions of other NationStates nations or regions at an international level.


So, in many ways this reflects what I believe you and others had intended the Security Council commendations and condemnations to be used for. Diplomatic situations between nations. However Ard and other mods, and Violet said that there would be a test period where players could explore different techniques and in several months, possibly years, a ruleset governing the Security Council would be determined. The problem is that in those few months, players like myself enjoyed having the freedom to write what would be most appropriate for the nominee. We came to acknowledge that the World Assembly can exist simultaneously as an assembly for nations, and an assembly for the players of NationStates. Because not everyone who uses the World Assembly is acting as a nation for example gameplayers treat players as soldiers not nations. "In-Character" and "Out-of-Character" resolutions were commonplace. The Security Council became a thread between all of the little subcommunities in NationStates for everyone to enjoy.

But then came Rule IV, it was justified as a way to prevent flame-baiting in proposals, which to this day is mystifying to me, because if one wanted to cut down on flame-baiting, one should just ban flame-baiting. Any one can still flame-bait another player, pretending to do so with their nation (in fact all of the prior examples of flame-baiting in resolutions have been done so in-character). It was also justified as a rule to create more of a unity between the councils, however, we just split the councils to give us each other space -- so it seemed silly to now demand that we play the game in a similar fashion. I think what is most disappointing about Rule IV is that it disrespects how Security Councilors have come to play the game. I understand that our institution is new, but when I look at the moderation team I see moderators that are experienced in the affairs of the General Assembly whilst the Security Council has developed into something much different than the General Assembly and something that I think was very special. I’d cite success stories like NS-Sports, where forum moderators have experience in their sectors of moderation as past players and community veterans, to stress the fact that there is a distinct disconnect in the Security Council between moderation and the community which caused this incident. I believe that Ard, and Kyro.. and your other moderators, are very capable moderators, and genuinely great people, but they're very isolated from the Security Council and Gameplay affairs, and aren't experienced as Security Councilors to understand what a grave effect the rule has on the culture and the progression of the Security Council.

Anyone who is very acclimatized to the General Assembly is use to every resolution being an international law or a regulation, but in the Security Council, a commendation or a condemnation is an opinion that has been adopted by the World Assembly.

I still stand by my beliefs as do other Security Councilors that dimension is not a factor of quality, that a fantastic resolution can be written in any dimension (acknowledging players.. nations.. soldiers..) that meets the need of the nominee, instead of the demands of regulations. That is the fundamental drive of modern Security Council culture, that the resolution should respect the nominee, and what respect are we showing for our nominee if we can't even write as how that nominee wants to be written as?

Also, the rule prevents us from appreciating good players who roleplay bad nations, I'll cite New South Hell as a fantastic example, who would be impossible to commend under the new rule.

I hope that helps,
Uni


He had this to say after a bit of a conversation...


[..] I appreciate you bringing this to me. And you make a worthy argument in favor of "dimension neutrality." I think it was worth experimenting with, and when we brought in C&Cs I did wonder if they would wind up being used in that way.

After seeing how it's developed, though, I have two issues with dimension neutrality:

1) It's not really neutral. If you have resolutions that refer to RL players, it's impossible to view the SC as a council of nations. There is no overlap between those dimensions: one must be chosen over the other.

2) It makes the SC very meta. The Security Council is a fictional organization that exists within the gameworld, but if it makes resolutions referring to players, it is brought outside that gameworld. This isn't exactly a terrible thing, and it's similar to how regional message boards are used for OOC discussion. But the SC is a pretty fundamental part of the gameworld, and if you progress along that path you start to wonder why we have nations at all -- why not just people with profile pages. At our core, we're a nation simulation game.

I also think it's notable that you suggest changing the SC resolution text from "A resolution to express shock and dismay at a nation or region" to "at a nominee." That implies you are not wholly operating within the bounds of the SC as its actually exists, but rather evolving it and hoping the game can be modified to catch up. I understand that, and I don't consider any part of the game set in stone, if it no longer serves the community. But in a debate over which way the SC should be interpreted, I think it's significant that the dimension neutrality argument requires the SC to change.

Your New South Hell resolution is a good example[1], thanks. I agree completely that New South Hell is a notable player who has contributed a great deal to the game. But I don't think that should be legal as an SC resolution. It belongs in some kind of NS Hall of Fame, rather than in-game.

I like that the latest version of Rule 4 goes as far as is possible in allowing players of evil nations to be Commended. It requires you to dress up the language, and get creative in what you say, but it is perfectly possible to commend New South Hell. I don't need to tell you, of course, but one could reference NSH's RL contributions as if they were scholarly research performed in the nation. It's not exactly what you want, and I realize it cramps you, but again we're in a situation where someone necessarily has to be cramped.

You mentioned that you saw Rule 4 as a contradiction of the edict that the SC would evolve over time depending on how the community used it. I don't; this is the kind of thing I had in mind. There are about 14 different flavors of RP in this game, few of which are compatible with any of the others, and I sure didn't want to bet in advance which would turn out to work best. I thought it was better to let chaos reign for a while and pull back once we figured out where some reasonable limits were. That's what's happened.

Fundamentally, the SC makes resolutions about "a nation or a region." It is barely defined beyond that. But that's what it is.

Sorry, because I know this isn't what you wanted to hear. I totally understand that it's annoying to have a type of gameplay emerge and then get yanked away. But I have to make a call, and this is what I believe is best for the game.

All the best,

Max.


Perhaps that helps you understand the admin's decision better, it did for me.
Last edited by Unibot on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unibot
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Postby Unibot » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:03 am

With that I've removed the "disguised" and "circumvented" language from the OP. That was my cynical voice talking. I knew better than that.
Last edited by Unibot on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Cat-Tribe
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I am not at all opposed to this project. I am flattered.

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:50 am

Whether I deserve commendation from anyone for anything is a matter of opinion and ultimately for the proper channels to decide, but (having been asked in advance by Unibot) I thought I break my vacation (which is increasingly being honored more in the breach than in the practice ;) :eyebrow: ) to make clear I do not -- as some suggest -- object to this project by Unibot. I am honored, flattered, and willing to be "used" as a "test case" (to the extent that even applies).

I may not be the right candidate, but the artificial barriers between the WA/SC, II/RP, F7, and NSG are rather silly and this may help break them down. I admit I am not big on II roleplay and my participation in F7 has been scanty. From time to time, however, I have been active in the WA -- including drafting a proposed resolution, creating a thread seeking input and revision, submitting a consequently revised proposal, lobbying to get enough votes to get the resolution to meet Quorum, and finally to get the resolution sucessfully passed. I have at various times actively debated the merits of draft resolutions or resolutions at vote -- although I used to do so more before we moved from Jolt. So, while I consider myself primarily a Generalite, I use at least some of the other forums as well. I know there are other Generalites who are even more active than I in roleplay or WA matters.

I think Unibot's purpose is to break down the artificial wall that insulates RP and WA from NSG and other forums. Whether I am the best candidate for that purpose is a matter of discussion, but (although I confess only a quick surface level knowledge of the applicable rules and will have to go read them) I believe this is more a break from common practice than it is a challenge or circumvention of any rule. Even if it is a challenge to a rule, I trust the judgment of Unibot (until someone gives me evidence otherwise) that the rule ought to be challenged. If anyone has drawn the impression from my oft citation of law that I think law is necessarily always right, they are completely mistaken.

Anyway, Unibot can speak for himself, but I he is looking for input into whether, in addition to whether a Generalite should be recognized by the SC at all, whether any of you have an opinion as to whether I am a good candidate. If so, why? If not, why? Examples are appreciate.

Although I am certain everyone will remain civil and refrain from flaming, I vow to do my utmost to take even the harshest criticism or reasons why I would not be a good candidate in good humor and NOT personally.

I hope further to return to vacation and not post in this thread again. ;) :eyebrow:

I leave it to the the good populace of NSG to say what the will about Unibot's idea.
Last edited by The Cat-Tribe on Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
I quit (again).
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The Cat-Tribe wrote:With that, I am done with these shenanigans. Do as thou wilt.

Can't miss you until you're gone, Ambassador. Seriously, your delegation is like one of those stores that has a "Going Out Of Business" sale for twenty years. Stay or go, already.*snip*
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The Bleeding Roses
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Postby The Bleeding Roses » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:55 am

No, not now, not ever.

NSG should not be commemorated on the game side.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:55 am

NERVUN wrote:
Unibot wrote:
*deep breath* You guys seriously could never challenge the exquisite talent as a troll that a gifted few individuals have demonstrated by derailing the Security Council for years.

Some raiders thought the same until they attempted an invasion of a region of a well known Generalite. ;)

Man, that was awesome.
Everything for the cat.

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Hammurab
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Postby Hammurab » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:15 am

The Cat-Tribe wrote:Whether I deserve commendation from anyone for anything is a matter of opinion and ultimately for the proper channels to decide, but (having been asked in advance by Unibot) I thought I break my vacation (which is increasingly being honored more in the breach than in the practice ;) :eyebrow: ) to make clear I do not -- as some suggest -- object to this project by Unibot. I am honored, flattered, and willing to be "used" as a "test case" (to the extent that even applies).

*snip*

I think Unibot's purpose is to break down the artificial wall that insulates RP and WA from NSG and other forums. Whether I am the best candidate for that purpose is a matter of discussion, but (although I confess only a quick surface level knowledge of the applicable rules and will have to go read them) I believe this is more a break from common practice than it is a challenge or circumvention of any rule. Even if it is a challenge to a rule, I trust the judgment of Unibot (until someone gives me evidence otherwise) that the rule ought to be challenged. If anyone has drawn the impression from my oft citation of law that I think law is necessarily always right, they are completely mistaken.


What I thought you would have objected to was the premise of a "disguised" proposal seeking to "circumvent" the rules (OP's original terms, although I understand they have now been changed.

I never once claimed that you considered the law "necessarily always right", (quite the contrary, I even referenced that you might prefer reform) I simply thought that you would have wanted an unjust or incorrect law challenged openly and not by "disguise" or "circumvention". The OP has been edited to omit those terms, but at the time I responded, that's how it had been described by the original author of the proposal. So, that's what I responded to.

That said, I was and am wrong in what I said about the view you would take of it, and I was wrong to have assumed you would demure from the award in any case, and I apologize for presuming.
Last edited by Hammurab on Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Hammurab
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 03, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Hammurab » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:01 am

Unibot wrote:
Hammurab wrote:However, if I understand him at all, I think he would sooner advocate a rule reform, or perhaps the establishment of a general forum commendation, rather than seek the commendation as proposed here. (Even still, he'd likely demure from any commendation at all, but I strongly suspect he particularly wouldn't want an award in this fashion).

May I propose that we petition the appropriate powers to establish a commendation for one's contributions to the general forum, perhaps even name it after Cat-Tribes?


It ain't happening. Sorry. The best we can do is work to comply with the system.


Had you said that originally, I would've agreed, but your original post (which I understand you've now changed) contradicted your statement "the best we can do is comply with the system" quite clearly. It included "disguise" and "circumvent", which even you below admit are disingenuous (or "sneaky"). But since that's what you originally wrote, that's what I responded to. I have no problem with reforming or changing rules (I advocated that to begin with), I just think it should be done openly.

I was simply proposing adding a new commendation, which I never assumed had to come from the security council, as an alternative to "disguising" and "circumventing" anything. Since you've now removed those terms, my response would've been very different.

unitbot wrote: Perhaps, sneaky words like 'circumvent' are bad choices in words. Really what we're doing is finding a common language so that all can enjoy the commendation, not just generalities, and ultimately, the resolution can respect the cornerstone of what this game is made on ("Nation-Simulation").


Then advocate the value that civil debate, well informed rebuttals, and exhaustive research add to the simulation (and development) of nations, but without "disguise". Again, I'm cognizant you've removed that, but I replied before your edit, and so replied to your original statements.

unibot wrote: Therefore the text needs to be accessible to roleplayers. We shouldn't look at this as being ethnic oppression, but an idealistic egalitarianism -- something we should be proud to commit to.

Because at one time I felt the same way as you do, Hammurab, I sent Max Barry an email,


The way I "felt" was that sneaking something past anyone was a poor way to do it, and I presumed others would feel the same way. That you changed your post indicates you might "feel" the same way currently, so I'm not sure why you use the past-tense "felt". (Again, I was only proposing a new commendation as an alternative to doing this surreptitiously as originally suggested. If it can be done by finding "common language", that is very different and I would have responded differently.)

Either way, since your edit results in a fundamental change to both the means by which you were going to do this, how I "feel" about your revised statement would be very different.

unitbot wrote:**snip exchange between Unitbot and Max**

Perhaps that helps you understand the admin's decision better, it did for me.


Perhaps I can help you understand my response better: I was objecting to, and poorly assuming others would object to, actions self-described as "disguising" and "circumventing". Now that you've excised those terms, you are responding to me as if I said some things I did not say.

I did not say that any alternative proposal would have to come through the SC. I thought perhaps there could be discussion about the mods or someone else adding a commendation that would appear on a nations record for contributions to general, but it would be separate and distinct from what you discussed with Max Barry (with the exception of Max alluding to "some kind of Hall of Fame" or words to the effect, which only further indicate that Max might consider some other kind of award or commendation).

Even if the site managers are currently opposed to the idea, future dialogue or innovative arguments could conceivably change their minds, so saying "not going to happen" may possibly be overly categorical. In any case, what you and Max discussed in your exchange is very different from what I was proposing (again, except for the "Hall of Fame" idea, which he proposed and could very much fit what I was suggesting).

Thank you for your concern for how I "feel" and for my "understanding". However, what I took issue with was your original proposal that things be disguised (clearly alluding to deliberate misrepresentation) and rules circumvented (wherein I would have preferred open challenge and reform as alternatives). Thus, your past "feelings" and your current enlightenment really miss the mark of what I was saying, as does your rendering of my supposed misunderingstanding of an adminstrator's position.

While I certainly respect your right to change your OP, you have continued to evaluate (and mischaracterize) my response as if it takes some kind of issue with your now edited proposal. I don't "feel" one way or another about commendations in the SC, I was proposing something entirely different. Similarly, I don't fail to "understand" the admin's decision, as that wasn't what I was taking issue with. I was proposing alternatives, both to the SC and to what I originally saw you propose.

In any case, I was incorrect to have spoken for anyone else. I'll withdraw from the thread, and good luck with whatever happens.
Last edited by Hammurab on Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ardchoille
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Founded: Apr 18, 2004
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ardchoille » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:28 am

I've long thought C&Cs can and should be extended to all parts of NationStates. When the SC was formed I bet a commendation of Lunatic Goofballs would be the first non-Gameplay one out of the gates (that nation's senior representative being well known for the use of tacos, mud and even clowning around to defuse diplomatic contretemps during heated international debate).

It didn't happen, but at least I didn't have to pay up on my bet, since LG's becoming a non-runner was plainly an Act of Mod (boom-tish!).

Good luck with trapping the essence of TCT for the WA's admiration. Obviously Generalites (who I'm sure will generously overlook the TCT rep's occasional, er, testiness) would be the best source of information. But certainly a commendation should include the achievement of the nation's WA delegation in writing a sane resolution on abortion reduction and arguing it without making half the Assembly decide to permanently ignore the other half. ;)
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New Chalcedon
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Chalcedon » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:51 am

Hammurab wrote:Would Cat-Tribes want any proposal that needed to be "disguised", or that sought to "circumvent" a rule?

I went to Law School because of Cat-Tribes. He impresses me that much.

However, if I understand him at all, I think he would sooner advocate a rule reform, or perhaps the establishment of a general forum commendation, rather than seek the commendation as proposed here. (Even still, he'd likely demure from any commendation at all, but I strongly suspect he particularly wouldn't want an award in this fashion).

May I propose that we petition the appropriate powers to establish a commendation for one's contributions to the general forum, perhaps even name it after Cat-Tribes?


The Feline Award? :p

In all seriousness, I doubt that TCT would entirely approve of this, for the very cogent rules-related reasons stated by other posters in this thread; he is somewhat focused upon the rules, after all. Maybe make him the Resident NS FactChecker (TM)? Goodness knows that he does it enough as is, without the title.
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Ifreann
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:54 am

Give him 20 minutes with the secret Mod Squad Harem, it'll be grand.
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Barringtonia
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Founded: Feb 05, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Barringtonia » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:22 am

The Cat-Tribe wrote:I may not be the right candidate..


..indeed, I am.

Cannot think of a name wrote:
NERVUN wrote:Some raiders thought the same until they attempted an invasion of a region of a well known Generalite. ;)

Man, that was awesome.


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Nadkor
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Posts: 12114
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Nadkor » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:28 am

TCT, since this is a good thread to get you in, can I ask if you've ever heard of a guy called Gary Edles?
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Wilgrove
Post Czar
 
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Founded: May 08, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wilgrove » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:32 am

I am Wilgrove and I approve this. TCT has always been an excellent debator and has always come loaded with sources. If you try to prove TCT wrong, (s)he will bury you in sources! (S)he is obviously very intelligent and I believe has made a very positive contribution to NSG. You have my support in TCT getting this award.

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