Should civilization be destroyed?

[Geniasis]

Let me pose a question: What is there to gain by discarding civilization?

I like this. There is nothing at all to be gained, and if it actually happened then most people would be killed.

It's a legitimate question, too. I can think of plenty of things civilization has given me: education, comfort, plentiful food, safe water, relatively accessible medicine, technology, et cetera.

These are things I would lose if civilization were to go. More to it, not only would I lose those things, everyone else who had them would lose them, and everyone who doesn't have those things would lose all potential to ever have them.

So it's fair question, in my mind anyway, to wonder what I could possibly get that be worth throwing that away, if indeed I were to get anything at all from it.

[Norstal]

Quite frankly, I want to have a threesome before I die.

So there. Without civilization, I can't have a threesome.

well tribal wars were far more lethal than modern wars so I don't accept your premise. and the biggest problems, racism, wanton environmental destruction, and war were worse before civilization, so the thought of going backwards is pretty terrifying.

I meant that in today's civilization, sex is more accepted. I highly doubt that, in the age before civilization, you can go hut to hut screwing the opposite gender and drink beer peacefully in your own hut.

But, while we are in this discussion, aren't tribes essentially civilization? The OP wants no civilization at all.

[Mike the Progressive]

Let me pose a question: What is there to gain by discarding civilization?

The chance to become a warlord ruling over an oppressed mass of course!

Nah, you don't need the destruction of civilization to do that. You just need a laborer orientated ideologue, a charismatic leader, and something to spark a revolution.

[Kreanoltha]

I like this. There is nothing at all to be gained, and if it actually happened then most people would be killed.

It's a legitimate question, too. I can think of plenty of things civilization has given me: education, comfort, plentiful food, safe water, relatively accessible medicine, technology, et cetera.

These are things I would lose if civilization were to go. More to it, not only would I lose those things, everyone else who had them would lose them, and everyone who doesn't have those things would lose all potential to ever have them.

So it's fair question, in my mind anyway, to wonder what I could possibly get that be worth throwing that away, if indeed I were to get anything at all from it.

*Nods* There is absolutely every reason to keep civilization.

[Geniasis]

The chance to become a warlord ruling over an oppressed mass of course!

Yeah, but without the ability to tweet my royal decrees to the rest of the world, my victory seems somewhat hollow.

[Kreanoltha]

The chance to become a warlord ruling over an oppressed mass of course!

Nah, you don't need the destruction of civilization to do that. You just need a laborer orientated ideologue, a charismatic leader, and something to spark a revolution.

Didn't the Bolsheviks already do that?

[Mike the Progressive]

Nah, you don't need the destruction of civilization to do that. You just need a laborer orientated ideologue, a charismatic leader, and something to spark a revolution.

Didn't the Bolsheviks already do that?

Yeah and look how well that turned out.

[Sociobiology]

well tribal wars were far more lethal than modern wars so I don't accept your premise. and the biggest problems, racism, wanton environmental destruction, and war were worse before civilization, so the thought of going backwards is pretty terrifying.

I meant that in today's civilization, sex is more accepted. I highly doubt that, in the age before civilization, you can go hut to hut screwing the opposite gender and drink beer peacefully in your own hut.

But, while we are in this discussion, aren't tribes essentially civilization? The OP wants no civilization at all.

tribes of about 120 individuals is the closest humans get to no civilization it goes back to before chimps. we live in groups but small internally maintained groups without government or authority. the big problem with them is stagnant knowledge and willingness to kill anyone outside the group. not to mention some of the largest environmental destruction humans ever did was done before metal tools. (I want buffalo meant we drive half a herd over a cliff eat what we want leave the rest to rot) tribal culture often have very loose sexual practices and no real work enforcement other than social pressure. sexual repression is an effect a few weird religions and not seen elsewhere.

[Glorious Homeland]

Well? Should it? What's so good about civilization anyway? Imagine how much more easy everything would be without it? Nearly all the problems that people are so worried about (often to the point of killing each other) these days are the direct result of civilization.

If you could have stopped civilization from ever stating would you have?
Do you think it is possible to return to a pre civilization state?

If you like civilization why? What value is there in civilization for you personally?

Alright Pol Pot... using your internet, with your electricity and literacy to spread philosophy gained via civilisation.

I suppose it doesn't matter either way since we're all going to die anyway, but it's pleasant to see progress on many fronts due to civilisation. To understand parts of how the universe works.

...
The question is also stupid, because "humanity" is something we understand metaphysically as a result of civilisation. So it can't be a bad thing to happen to humanity, civilisation. Gargh.

[Kreanoltha]

Didn't the Bolsheviks already do that?

Yeah and look how well that turned out.

I guess the glorious rule of the proletariat included gulags and Marx just forget to write it down.

[Norstal]

I meant that in today's civilization, sex is more accepted. I highly doubt that, in the age before civilization, you can go hut to hut screwing the opposite gender and drink beer peacefully in your own hut.

But, while we are in this discussion, aren't tribes essentially civilization? The OP wants no civilization at all.

tribes of about 120 individuals is the closest humans get to no civilization it goes back to before chimps. we live in groups but small internally maintained groups without government or authority. the big problem with them is stagnant knowledge and willingness to kill anyone outside the group. not to mention some of the largest environmental destruction humans ever did was done before metal tools. (I want buffalo meant we drive half a herd over a cliff eat what we want leave the rest to rot) tribal culture often have very loose sexual practices and no real work enforcement other than social pressure. sexual repression is an effect a few weird religions and not seen elsewhere.

I suppose. I could imagine it being violent and environmentally destructive, but I was thinking that there is sexual repression since there's that sense of ownership over the opposite gender. But, you're probably right. I'll need to come up with a better reason to keep civilization.

Jack Daniels! Without civilization, there would be no Jack Daniels whiskey.

[Kreanoltha]

tribes of about 120 individuals is the closest humans get to no civilization it goes back to before chimps. we live in groups but small internally maintained groups without government or authority. the big problem with them is stagnant knowledge and willingness to kill anyone outside the group. not to mention some of the largest environmental destruction humans ever did was done before metal tools. (I want buffalo meant we drive half a herd over a cliff eat what we want leave the rest to rot) tribal culture often have very loose sexual practices and no real work enforcement other than social pressure. sexual repression is an effect a few weird religions and not seen elsewhere.

I suppose. I could imagine it being violent and environmentally destructive, but I was thinking that there is sexual repression since there's that sense of ownership over the opposite gender. But, you're probably right. I'll need to come up with a better reason to keep civilization.

Jack Daniels! Without civilization, there would be no Jack Daniels whiskey.

How about these: No modern medicine, no AC, no heater, no cars, no television.

[Norstal]

I suppose. I could imagine it being violent and environmentally destructive, but I was thinking that there is sexual repression since there's that sense of ownership over the opposite gender. But, you're probably right. I'll need to come up with a better reason to keep civilization.

Jack Daniels! Without civilization, there would be no Jack Daniels whiskey.

How about these: No modern medicine, no AC, no heater, no cars, no television.

Yes yes, those are nice too I suppose.

[Mike the Progressive]

Yeah and look how well that turned out.

I guess the glorious rule of the proletariat included gulags and Marx just forget to write it down.

Oh good, you got the sarcasm, a lot of people don't. I mean it's not hard, I have a picture of Nixon and my signature is quoting Milton Friedman. But yay, you got that I wasn't being serious, so I'm happy

[Gauthier]

Without civilization, all the hippy communes would be wiped out by the militias. Heh.

[Allrule]

^In a nutshell.

[Kreanoltha]

^In a nutshell.

Your image is broken.

[Nadkor]

^In a nutshell.

Your image is broken.

He should get a publicist.

[Kreanoltha]

Your image is broken.

He should get a publicist.

Yeah, his 403 is a bit verbose.

[The Scandinvans]

If there is any sane reason to return to a period before the opulence that we in the west (and soon all around the world) live in today, barring the unfortunate consequences on nature. I have yet to hear it.

You do realize that it's primarily post-industrial western nations and rapidly-developing nations who are enjoying "opulent" lifestyles, right? At least half the world still lives in a state of poverty.

Would their quality of life truly be better? Did their ancestors not have sufficient incentive to establish a permanent location to settle on and start to use agriculture thus effectively beginning civilization?

[Georgism]

Lol, no.

I like the internet, pizza, toothpaste and all sorts of other things.

[Baltenstein]

I mean it's not hard, I have a picture of Nixon

Something only leftists do nowadays. Same thing with G.W.B. avatars.

[San Whoopee]

Certainly not destroyed, but I would advocate a reduction. Like more ecovillages, kibbutzim, and other self-sufficient communities, and less megacities like NY or San Fran.

[Genomita]

Let me guess, that one vote against civilization is from you, the OP ? You DO realize that, without civilization, we wouldn't even be able to talk about things like this.

Also, mankind as a whole is sometimes a lot less civilized than it would like to believe, There are still many things wrong in our world that we need to take care of before we can consider ourselves a truly civilized species, though I guess we are off to a good start.

[Romanar]

I'd hate to wake up in a cave at 30 degrees F, walk to the nearest stream for a bath, and then run after a squirrel for my breakfast.