What is a fair punishment for rape?

[The Rich Port]

Why don't people just make sure they're BOTH drunk so that way when they sue they cancel each other out.

What kind of person gets drunk so they can get away with raping another drunk person?

Frankly, idiots.

Think about it: if you're raping somebody while you're getting raped, it's like rape squared, so you can just square root it.

[Georgism]

THIS country. Which country are YOU at?

The UK

Anyway, that doesn't matter. Calling the law extremist is like calling God an atheist. It makes no sense.

God has low self esteem, he doesn't believe in himself.

[The Rich Port]

THIS country. Which country are YOU at?

The UK

Anyway, that doesn't matter. Calling the law extremist is like calling God an atheist. It makes no sense.

God has low self esteem, he doesn't believe in himself.

Well, still. Freedonia's a troll.

[Georgism]

What kind of person gets drunk so they can get away with raping another drunk person?

People get drunk and get laid quite a lot.

Not what you were asking, but still.

[Ifreann]

What kind of person gets drunk so they can get away with raping another drunk person?

People get drunk and get laid quite a lot.

Not what you were asking, but still.

So why did you say it?

[Dempublicents1]

I wish I was a woman then, so I could retract consent in the last 5 seconds

You don't have to be a woman to be able to withdraw consent. A man can also withdraw his consent at any time.

[Georgism]

So why did you say it?

Why not?

I just found it interesting how many people are actually rapists.

[FREEaquaticdancelesson]

Or if the woman is drunk and you are not it's rape... I mean it's just silly things like this who get decent, consenting adults in jail.

Yeah, it's silly to call sex with someone who is not able to make rational decisions (and thus is unable to legally consent) rape...

Yeah, that IS a good point, but according to the same law system you have enough rational choice to decided whether or not you want to drive a car... You get a DUI even if you can't even control yourself you're so drunk.... But you can't decide whether or not you want to have sex?
And if the woman is just BARELY above the legal limit, does that constitute rape as well?

"Drunk" is not a switch that goes "on" and "off", there's various levels of consciousness, and your actions are only held accountable if it applies to certain laws.

Nobody knows where the cutoff line is for consent of alcohol, and if you drink to just to get with her the sex is going to be terrible! lol.

So, I guess "safe" sex with a woman who's consumed alcohol requires a shot of vodka and a condom.I can deal.

[Cloakadia]

Cloakadia has a tiered Rape punishment system. All those who rape with malicious intent get life in prison with no parole in a separate prison reserved for rapists.

Foreign Ministry, Cloakadia

[Dyakovo]

Cloakadia has a tiered Rape punishment system. All those who rape with malicious intent get life in prison with no parole in a separate prison reserved for rapists.

Foreign Ministry, Cloakadia

NSG is an OOC forum. We don't give a shit about what goes on in your make-believe country. We're talking about the real world here.

[Dempublicents1]

Why is it really a big deal for a whore to get raped? And I do not want to hear any psychobabble or PC Newspeak.

For the exact same reasons that it is a big deal for anyone to get raped.

If two drunk people fuck each other, is it mutual rape?

I'm not talking from the law here, but from my own opinion. I would say that it depends. In my mind, in order for someone to have committed an act of rape, the person must have intent. If two people get drunk together and they end up having sex, without either of them forming intent to have sex with someone who is unable to consent, rape has not occurred. If one person fully intends to get a partner drunk for the purpose of obtaining consent and also gets drunk at the same time, that person was still trying to get around consent, and has thus committed an act of rape. If one person is significantly less inebriated than the other and thus fully capable of recognizing the diminished capacity of the other, but still has sex, that person has committed an act of rape.

[Lauchlin]

As is continuing after a woman passes out.

Ok, so if she passes out 5 seconds before you finish its rape right? Even though she consented 3 minutes ago?

What the fuck, Bendira? Aside from the idiocy of the question, you couldn't have said "Even though she consented half an hour ago?" Or if you're trying to emasculate yourself so you'll look less rapey, I guess that's a cunning strategy?

Funny how a lot of people who complain about black humor involving rape often aren't offended by black humor involving murder. *shrugs* Kinda like those parents who thought GTA went too far by allowing the characters to drink and drive.

I suspect people would be less offended by any humour in this thread if it were actually funny instead of just childish attempts to shock people. Saying something socially obnoxious is not the same as telling a joke.

[Hydesland]

childish attempts to shock people. Saying something socially obnoxious is not the same as telling a joke.

Do yourself a favour, never watch Frankie Boyle.

[Lauchlin]

I'm not talking from the law here, but from my own opinion. I would say that it depends. In my mind, in order for someone to have committed an act of rape, the person must have intent. If two people get drunk together and they end up having sex, without either of them forming intent to have sex with someone who is unable to consent, rape has not occurred. If one person fully intends to get a partner drunk for the purpose of obtaining consent and also gets drunk at the same time, that person was still trying to get around consent, and has thus committed an act of rape. If one person is significantly less inebriated than the other and thus fully capable of recognizing the diminished capacity of the other, but still has sex, that person has committed an act of rape.

I think that's overbroad, and also unhelpful. A very, very large number of people drink to get themselves drunk enough to have sex. A significant amount of the sex that happens in this world occurs because people utilize the magic of alcohol to lower their inhibitions and make themselves more socially daring. People who do this aren't being abused or raped.

"Diminished capacity" really only matters when it's bordering on incapacity. The way you've defined it, basically every university student in the western world is a multiple rapist/rape victim.

[Arinus]

No punishment or monetary restitution is going to make the situation "fair." A rape victim can't be given back what was taken, the situation can't be made just.

[Lauchlin]

childish attempts to shock people. Saying something socially obnoxious is not the same as telling a joke.

Do yourself a favour, never watch Frankie Boyle.

He tells jokes. He's not a 14 year old saying, "i love rape derp derp aren't i funny?"

[Dempublicents1]

"Diminished capacity" really only matters when it's bordering on incapacity. The way you've defined it, basically every university student in the western world is a multiple rapist/rape victim.

I didn't define it, so I'm not sure how you can say that. I'm not talking about someone who had a glass of wine and got a little buzzed here. I'm talking about someone who is obviously intoxicated. If you are able to recognize the fact that someone else is obviously intoxicated and not in control of themselves, you are able to recognize the fact that they are unable to give informed consent.

Some people try to get themselves "drunk enough" to go get tattoos as well. However, most tattoo parlors won't give you a tattoo if you are obviously intoxicated. Why? Because the consent form you sign in that state isn't worth the paper it's printed on and they know they could get sued.

[Lauchlin]

"Diminished capacity" really only matters when it's bordering on incapacity. The way you've defined it, basically every university student in the western world is a multiple rapist/rape victim.

I didn't define it, so I'm not sure how you can say that. I'm not talking about someone who had a glass of wine and got a little buzzed here. I'm talking about someone who is obviously intoxicated. If you are able to recognize the fact that someone else is obviously intoxicated and not in control of themselves, you are able to recognize the fact that they are unable to give informed consent.

Some people try to get themselves "drunk enough" to go get tattoos as well. However, most tattoo parlors won't give you a tattoo if you are obviously intoxicated. Why? Because the consent form you sign in that state isn't worth the paper it's printed on and they know they could get sued.

If one person is significantly less inebriated than the other and thus fully capable of recognizing the diminished capacity of the other, but still has sex, that person has committed an act of rape.

That seems like an attempt at definition to me? Either way, I just don't think that talking about "diminished capacity" is helpful. Your capacity is diminished after one beer. Hell, the night before last, I was extremely drunk and slept with someone who was much more sober than I was. Should I be calling a trauma centre?

[Gravlen]

Yeah, it's silly to call sex with someone who is not able to make rational decisions (and thus is unable to legally consent) rape...

If two drunk people fuck each other, is it mutual rape?

Depends on the laws. In my jurisdiction, it wouldn't be.

Presumably they gave consent before they passed out... Ok, but how can you presume that they gave consent for continuing to have sex after they passed out?

People have the right to change their minds, and that is to be respected. It's your obligation to stop when the other party says that this is going too far, or that he doesn't want to do this anymore. The fact that some people have used presented false allegations of rape for varying purposes in the past doesn't change that at all.

And how in the Hell can it be "wrong" to pass out?

Its not wrong to pass out, but once you issue consent id say its fair game. Now obviously if there was an objection in the middle, it would have to stop. If the girl passes out 10 seconds before your about to finish however, and then she accuses you of rape, thats not right.

Why are you unable to stop even if it's only 10 seconds left until you finish though? It's honestly not that difficult.

[Xsyne]

Amputation of the offending organ.

How's that one going to work for female rapists?

Ice cream scoop.

I am so glad I can't actually visualize that.

[The Norwegian Blue]

Should I be worried that this sentence proved to be necessary?

Funny how a lot of people who complain about black humor involving rape often aren't offended by black humor involving murder. *shrugs* Kinda like those parents who thought GTA went too far by allowing the characters to drink and drive.

Here's the thing - how many people do you see seriously arguing that it doesn't count as murder if the victim was drunk? How many people do you see seriously arguing that it's okay to murder people if they got you in a murdering mood, because you couldn't be expected to control your impulse to murder? How many people seriously make the case that if you get murdered, it was probably your own fault in some way? How many people say that murder victims weren't really hurt by being killed and are just faking being dead for the attention?

It's not that rape is more serious than murder. It's that huge numbers of people actually believe that crap when it comes to rape, and it makes it very hard to laugh when you know that, right now, some guy somewhere is very probably raping a prostitute and that he will get away with it because so many people actually think, "Hey, she's just a whore - you're allowed to rape them!"

(Also, as Dem pointed out, people do generally get more upset when you think the horrible violation that happened to THEM is funny. There aren't a lot of murder victims reading NSG, for obvious reasons.)

[Person012345]

Funny how a lot of people who complain about black humor involving rape often aren't offended by black humor involving murder. *shrugs* Kinda like those parents who thought GTA went too far by allowing the characters to drink and drive.

Because it's not funny! Think of the children!

Or, given where the thread is going, don't think of the children.

Why not?

[Glitziness]

I really dont get debates about ambiguous situations, regarding alcohol or anything else.

If they're showing active signs of dislike - BAD. If they're showing active signs of enjoyment - GOOD.
If they are showing no or little response - BAD. Check. If they are unable to respond - BAD. If they are, then they'll let you know.

Simple.

Anyone who doesn't mind if the other person wants to have sex or not, should not be allowed to have sex.
Anyone who can't tell if someone is happy to have sex with them, should not be allowed to have sex.

I personally don't know how I could have sex without knowing with 100% certainity that the other person was happy with the situation. If I was at all unclear about this, I would want to check. It wouldn't ruin the mood, seeing as the whole issue of "is this person consenting to this?" would be ruining the mood anyway.

[Dyakovo]

There aren't a lot of murder victims reading NSG, for obvious reasons.

Dead people don't debate well? No that can't be it...
Max is prejudiced versus dead people? That's gotta be it...

[Sibirsky]

Sometimes I feel dead inside, does that count?