What is a fair punishment for rape?

[Glorious Freedonia]

Man rapers [...] are the worst.

Based on... what?

Prostitute rapers are not all that bad because after all they are just whores.

...say what?

I'm loathe to ask this but... Explain that reasoning?

It also kinda depends on whether it is a war rape because that is a mitigating factor.

...

I'm horrified to ask this but... Explain that reasoning?

Rape is one of those very scary crimes where it seems that there might be a lot of false convictions so that sort of makes me not want these people to get the death sentence unless there are a lot of aggravating factors. I have no source for this but it just seems like it might be the case.

So... You're basically just pulling stuff out of your ass?

Man rapers are the worst because when we look at Sodom and Gomorrah we see that Lot tried to mitigate things by having his virgin daughters used by the rapists instead of his male guests. Man rapery is so low that we have killed such people in the past. I believe that the first Alcatraz prisoner to be executed was killed for being a serial man raper.

Although I would not say that my fear of false convictions in rape cases is "pulled from my ass". It seems that the whole he said she said aspect of it makes it a little scary. Even if it is videotaped it can still be unclear about the consensual nature of the sex. It seems a lot harder to properly convict someone of rape than theft crimes for example. I do not have a whole lot of faith in juries' abilities to let defendants go when there is reasonable doubt. I do not know if that is out of my ass or not and I will leave it to you to be the judge of my thoughts.

[Glorious Freedonia]

Man rapers and child rapers are the worst. Rapers of senile old ladies and other handicapped people are pretty bad too. Prostitute rapers are not all that bad because after all they are just whores.

Women can put shards of glass up your ass, just like a man can stick a penis up your ass. Its not "worse".

Nobody said that prostitutes are not people. At least I sure did not. They do an important job in our society. It just does not seem that it would be as traumatic for a whore to have sex with a stranger as it might be for the average person. With the whore it is more like well they were stolen from than the victim of a violent attack on their person.

You are so wrong. Throwing a baseball at a baseball player in their head has the same effect of throwing a baseball at a non-baseball player.

War rape is mitigating because there is in many cultures like Russia a rich tradition of war rape. We saw it in our involvement with the Boxer Rebellion and we saw it in Germany. This factor is mitigating but there are still other factors that aggravate it. For example, there are some brutal war rapes throughout Africa that are death penalty worthy for sure.

When cultural traditions conflicts with international law, its bad.

I am pretty sure that shards of glass would be an aggravating factor under my level of violence category.

The baseball analogy does not work here. There is nothing analogous to this situation.

Cultural traditions do not excuse guilt but I believe that they do mitigate. That is why I call them a mitigating factor.

[Novograd IV]

Send them to live in any nation run by NSers.

that'll show em'

[Oterro]

Man rapers are the worst because when we look at Sodom and Gomorrah we see that Lot tried to mitigate things by having his virgin daughters used by the rapists instead of his male guests.

That has what to do with anything at all?

[Dyakovo]

I'm actually not going to even bother continuing with this line of discussion, because I just realized I'm talking to somebody who used the phrase "women use rape as a weapon" without irony.

Hetero dudes of NSG, this one is your battle. Your brothers are walking around claiming that they can't or won't stop fucking unwilling women. If you're fine with them spreading the idea that this is normal, natural male behavior, and you are comfortable with this characterization of your gender, then so be it. I simply don't hate men enough to buy that crap, but I'm also not going to bother talking about it any further here.

I'm okay with people saying it... It makes it real easy to spot the scumbags.

[Dyakovo]

wrong sir! because sometimes death is the only justafiable punishment, killing the villin ain't always wrong. so sorry "you where close but no cigar, sir!"

There is never justification for murder. Ever.

You don't know what murder is, do you?

[Dyakovo]

Any intentional killing is murder.

Wrong.

I knew I was correct in my supposition that you didn't know what the word meant.

[Lauchlin]

I keep almost replying to posts in this the thread, but I just can't get up the motivation. This discussion is a disaster and if I get any more involved in it, I'll just get depressed.

[Geniasis]

I'm actually not going to even bother continuing with this line of discussion, because I just realized I'm talking to somebody who used the phrase "women use rape as a weapon" without irony.

Hetero dudes of NSG, this one is your battle. Your brothers are walking around claiming that they can't or won't stop fucking unwilling women. If you're fine with them spreading the idea that this is normal, natural male behavior, and you are comfortable with this characterization of your gender, then so be it. I simply don't hate men enough to buy that crap, but I'm also not going to bother talking about it any further here.

I'd love to, really. But truth is I'm too busy headdesking to know where to begin.

[Norstal]

I am pretty sure that shards of glass would be an aggravating factor under my level of violence category.

Which would make it worse than man rapists.

The baseball analogy does not work here. There is nothing analogous to this situation.

What? You said that prostitutes takes being raped easier because sex is their job, therefore its more ok since they can cope with it. Guess what? Rape is rape. Under the eyes of the law, its rape.

Cultural traditions do not excuse guilt but I believe that they do mitigate. That is why I call them a mitigating factor.

And its still bad.

[Wiztopia]

Uh no.
cow·ard·ice
   /ˈkaʊərdɪs/ Show Spelled[kou-er-dis] Show IPA
–noun
lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.

–noun
1.
lack of interest or concern: We were shocked by their indifference toward poverty.

2 completely different things. If somebody doesn't care about something then by that definition it doesn't make them a coward.

When they choose to not care, and thus take the side of the oppressor, they have done so lacking the courage to actually state their position so they can avoid taking responibility for the consequences that follow. i.e. saying "I don't care" equals "I support it happening".

It's all there in my post, I really shouldn't have to spell it out for someone who is capable of looking up undisputed words in the dictionary.

If they don't care about something that is their position just because you think they are cowards doesn't mean they are. They don't take either side if they don't care about something.

[Tahar Joblis]

All of this makes sense and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there is some of that effect going on. I would argue that the view of rape victims being likely to be dishonest is nothing new, so it is unlikely to derive completely from this sort of loop. But it would make sense for it to contribute.

So, what do we do about it?

Well, three things that I can think of.

First, we emphasize the "good" news and bash on partisans who report deceptive or inaccurate statistics. Instead of giving victims a deceptively low percentage of getting through [RARZOMG TEH POLIS WOWNT HEP YOO] or giving a grossly inaccurate high figure of false allegations [ALL TEH WIMMENZ R LIE], we give them a real percentage of what they can expect to see if they actually push the case through, tell them they will be supported in laying out their charge, and that even if they don't have the evidence to launch a criminal case, having that report out on the record will contribute to both their protection and the eventual prosecution of their attacker should (s)he continue to commit rapes.

Second, we scrutinize rape reports with all due skepticism, and try not to presume guilt until such time as it is substantiated. This applies both to the possible rape and to the possible false reporting. (We know that both of those things can't be true at once, so that may seem hard).

Third, we prosecute every case that can be prosecuted, whether of rape or false reports. This might require the use of relatively light sentencing, and certainly we can't do anything about "he said, she said" cases unless it suddenly becomes relevant via new evidence or new incidents, but completeness is probably more important than intensity here.

[Dempublicents1]

Nobody said that prostitutes are not people. At least I sure did not. They do an important job in our society. It just does not seem that it would be as traumatic for a whore to have sex with a stranger as it might be for the average person. With the whore it is more like well they were stolen from than the victim of a violent attack on their person.

Suppose a boxer gets jumped in an alley and beaten up. Is that more like stealing than assault? Should the person(s) who commit the assault get a lesser sentence because the victim gets hit for money, and therefore should be more ok with someone hitting him without his consent?

[Phing Phong]

Life imprisonment.

[Tim-Opolis]

I say death penalty..... Rape usually results in murder of a sort and I believe in the "If you take someones life, then you lose yours."

They made this choice and I believe they should experience the harshest consequence possible for this.

[The Parkus Empire]

It depends on the situation. Do I think that an 18-year-old in California who has sex with a 17-year-old should receive the same punishment as a thug who forcibly sodomizes a kids in an alley? No. What's more, some rape cases are highly questionable. Would one person being drunk always be rape if sober consent wasn't given? What if bother persons were drunk, but one brought up the case first?

One punishment for rape doesn't make any more sense than one punishment for murder.

[Gravlen]

If they don't care about something that is their position just because you think they are cowards doesn't mean they are. They don't take either side if they don't care about something.

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
- Desmond Tutu

I think he says it well.

[Galt Worshippers]

That would make an interesting criminal case study though. Have any rapists ever had a vasectomy/hysterectomy?

As far as I know you can still have an erection even if you have had the operation - but I just think it just means your empty, which would actually suit a repeat offender - as their crime would be relatively risk-free.

[Person012345]

Source?

You commit acts like murder, spousal abuse, etc. if you have no respect for other people's rights and no sex drive. Generally speaking, rape does require someone to have a desire for sex. Otherwise they just do something else.

Rape can be attributed more to a desire to hold power over someone rather than lustful desires. Look at prisons that use rape as a interrogation tool. It'd be more correct to say that the wardens would be using rape to show their power rather than because they fancy getting it on with someone.

I didn't say it was the only reason. But the simple fact is there are ways of making someone feel more ashamed and there are better ways of being sadistic than rape. You rape if you get a sexual thrill out of that, not simply because you like making people feel that way.

My ask for a source wasn't a joke.

[The Parkus Empire]

Rape can be attributed more to a desire to hold power over someone rather than lustful desires. Look at prisons that use rape as a interrogation tool. It'd be more correct to say that the wardens would be using rape to show their power rather than because they fancy getting it on with someone.

I didn't say it was the only reason. But the simple fact is there are ways of making someone feel more ashamed and there are better ways of being sadistic than rape. You rape if you get a sexual thrill out of that, not simply because you like making people feel that way.

My ask for a source wasn't a joke.

A good part of the sexual titillation comes from making someone feel that way. It's a kind of non-consensual, sexual sadism.

[Person012345]

Yeah, "prostitutes are still human beings" is clearly a totally unreasonable and untrue statement.



How the hell is that a mitigating factor?

Nobody said that prostitutes are not people. At least I sure did not. They do an important job in our society. It just does not seem that it would be as traumatic for a whore to have sex with a stranger as it might be for the average person. With the whore it is more like well they were stolen from than the victim of a violent attack on their person.

War rape is mitigating because there is in many cultures like Russia a rich tradition of war rape. We saw it in our involvement with the Boxer Rebellion and we saw it in Germany. This factor is mitigating but there are still other factors that aggravate it. For example, there are some brutal war rapes throughout Africa that are death penalty worthy for sure.

You have absolutewly no idea what you're talking about do you? It makes it better because it's tradition? What a lovely tradition war rape is. It's perfectly fine if you're in a war after all. Can't get any willing pussy and hey, you conqured their asses, so they're all yours. No need to treat them like human beings or anything.

[Person012345]

I'm sorry, did I say that? I'm pretty sure I didn't.

My mistake, I misread that part.

So what is your stance then?

Dunno. If prison rape happens much here at all (I don't think it's a big problem in the UK), then there's really not anything I can do about it. My opinion is if you don't want to face jail and all that it entails, don't commit a crime. False convictions are rare. If the authorities are concerned about prison rape, they can do something about it, it's not my duty or ability to change things.

In summary: I don't really care because there's nothing I can do about it. And there are more important things I could give my spare resources to if I had any spare resources. If I had the ability to change it, not at the expense of anything else, sure I would.

[Person012345]

I didn't say it was the only reason. But the simple fact is there are ways of making someone feel more ashamed and there are better ways of being sadistic than rape. You rape if you get a sexual thrill out of that, not simply because you like making people feel that way.

My ask for a source wasn't a joke.

A good part of the sexual titillation comes from making someone feel that way. It's a kind of non-consensual, sexual sadism.

Exactly. If it didn't give them the sexual feeling, if it didn't give them the sexual pleasure, if we killed their sex drive, if we removed the sexual reward aspect, they would be unlikely to do it, they would have no motivation to rape.

[Manahakatouki]

Raped by an ostritch of some sort...

[Newellia]

Execution, by a shot to the genitals, and, about an hour later, the head.