Boys falling behind in school - bad for men of the future

[Great Valencia]

K.

The Einstein wanted nuclear energy, not bombs.

Go read somewhere other than wikipedia, or the internet, but instead a real book.

^The response from someone who can't admit he lost.

The response from someone who doesnt care what people believe. Go read a book, thats a fact.

[The Deleted Chris]

The view of one teacher who I spoke to this about is that the direction of social change is not to the benefit of male education. She seemed of the opinion that men exceed best under highly disciplined, authoritarian and strict systems such as how schools were in the past. The current emphasis on understanding, working together and individuality is backfiring in some ways because it has trouble dealing with unruly boys and makes the temptation to simply "not give a fuck" a lot easier. Compare this to days where simply offering a rude comment to the teacher resulted in a lashing harsh enough that one could not sit down for the rest of the day without wincing or subject to public ridicule/emotional terror such as wearing an oversized colored hat declaring one to be an oaf whilst having to endure the ridicule of your peers as you sit in a corner. Boys were kept in line and their concentration on their studies was much more avid since signs of unruliness, rebellion and aggression were swiftly beaten out of the male child.

Yeah on the other hand women didn't go to university in any great numbers until corporal punishment was being almost completely phased out, making her hypothesis very difficult to prove or disprove.

However generalised and methodologically fragile, the actual point seems valid. Whatever the disparities in funding and quality of teacher, it remains true that schools that offer a more traditional style of instruction, namely the private and selective sectors, produce far better qualified and more employable students.

[Hornopolis]

^The response from someone who can't admit he lost.

The response from someone who doesnt care what people believe. Go read a book, thats a fact.

Go read a book? I read books all the time dude. I think you should stay in RP.

[Great Valencia]

The response from someone who doesnt care what people believe. Go read a book, thats a fact.

Go read a book? I read books all the time dude. I think you should stay in RP.

Read a real book, not a school textbook or a picture book for kids.

Einstein was horrible in school, and failed math. He wanted atomic ENERGY but not a bomb, because he was pacifist.

[Yootwopia]

I'd always thought the opposite was true.

The report being cited isn't named (which is vexing), but here's a news story which suggests that you're actually wrong:

"Dr Leonard's findings have fuelled claims from teachers' leaders and education psychologists that boys brought up in a single-sex environment are less able to relate to the opposite sex than those taught in a co-educational school.

Mary Bousted, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: "All the research shows single-sex schools are good for girls but bad for boys – both in terms of academic performance and socialisation.

"Girls seem to learn what the nature of the beast is if they have been to single sex schools whereas boys taught on their own seem to find girls more puzzling."

Dr Bousted added: "Boys learn better when they are with girls and they actually learn to get on better."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 31636.html

A more specific analysis of specific failing demographic groups would be more helpful, in any case, although I'd still advocate de-wussyfying the curriculum and encouraging competition and competitiveness

I went to a comp and competition and competitiveness weren't especially frowned upon.

In sincerity, an education system in which schools can offer "peace studies" is hardly likely to appeal to any but the most Milibandish of boys.

Yeah but on the other hand there's still War Studies at most universities, which only appeals to the kind of people who wanted to join the army but who are too fat and cowardly to make it in, so there we are.

[Yootwopia]

However generalised and methodologically fragile, the actual point seems valid. Whatever the disparities in funding and quality of teacher, it remains true that schools that offer a more traditional style of instruction, namely the private and selective sectors, produce far better qualified and more employable students.

Right but as you know fine well, state sector pupils do much better at university, which is really just three years' break from the real world for people who had the contacts to get into a private school, or the money to get into a public school.

[Qwcasd]

Affirmative Action for men.... NOW!

[Hornopolis]

Go read a book? I read books all the time dude. I think you should stay in RP.

Read a real book, not a school textbook or a picture book for kids.

Einstein was horrible in school, and failed math. He wanted atomic ENERGY but not a bomb, because he was pacifist.

I don't read textbooks, I read actual books. Novels. Do you really think a scientist of his caliber failed school? If he had he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did in life. You obviously can't carry on debates with people, so I'm going to stop responding to you all together.

[New Rogernomics]

I am fine with an Amazonian society with women ruling over men, just so long as I don't get aids.

[The Deleted Chris]

I'd always thought the opposite was true.

The report being cited isn't named (which is vexing), but here's a news story which suggests that you're actually wrong:

"Dr Leonard's findings have fuelled claims from teachers' leaders and education psychologists that boys brought up in a single-sex environment are less able to relate to the opposite sex than those taught in a co-educational school.

Mary Bousted, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: "All the research shows single-sex schools are good for girls but bad for boys – both in terms of academic performance and socialisation.

"Girls seem to learn what the nature of the beast is if they have been to single sex schools whereas boys taught on their own seem to find girls more puzzling."

Dr Bousted added: "Boys learn better when they are with girls and they actually learn to get on better."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 31636.html

A more specific analysis of specific failing demographic groups would be more helpful, in any case, although I'd still advocate de-wussyfying the curriculum and encouraging competition and competitiveness

I went to a comp and competition and competitiveness weren't especially frowned upon.

In sincerity, an education system in which schools can offer "peace studies" is hardly likely to appeal to any but the most Milibandish of boys.

Yeah but on the other hand there's still War Studies at most universities, which only appeals to the kind of people who wanted to join the army but who are too fat and cowardly to make it in, so there we are.

The study cited seems to be more social and pastoral than qualification focused. Frankly I'd rather the public education system produce discipline, well qualified and productive employees than happy and socially complete private individuals, and allow moral and personal development to occur organically.

And you know as well as I do that, although things have improved somewhat since the worst excesses of the 60's, 70's and 80's, we still have a public education system whose ethos prefers inclusivity, constructive discussion and collective work to the sort of Hellenic competetive individualism on which most public and selective schools were based.

[Great Valencia]

Read a real book, not a school textbook or a picture book for kids.

Einstein was horrible in school, and failed math. He wanted atomic ENERGY but not a bomb, because he was pacifist.

I don't read textbooks, I read actual books. Novels. Do you really think a scientist of his caliber failed school? If he had he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did in life. You obviously can't carry on debates with people, so I'm going to stop responding to you all together.

Im going to do what you do.

LOLZIWIN!

[The Deleted Chris]

However generalised and methodologically fragile, the actual point seems valid. Whatever the disparities in funding and quality of teacher, it remains true that schools that offer a more traditional style of instruction, namely the private and selective sectors, produce far better qualified and more employable students.

Right but as you know fine well, state sector pupils do much better at university, which is really just three years' break from the real world for people who had the contacts to get into a private school, or the money to get into a public school.

Indeed, and much as I'd like to complain about such injustices, my college old members' office has put me in contact with invest banking alumni, and I can't be that bad a hypocrite.

[Lauchlin]

Go read a book? I read books all the time dude. I think you should stay in RP.

Read a real book, not a school textbook or a picture book for kids.

Einstein was horrible in school, and failed math. He wanted atomic ENERGY but not a bomb, because he was pacifist.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/truman/psources/ps_einstein.html

P.S. The failing math thing is apocryphal too: http://www.time.com/time/2007/einstein/3.html

It makes me wonder what kind of books you've been reading.

[Dazchan]

Go read a book? I read books all the time dude. I think you should stay in RP.

Read a real book, not a school textbook or a picture book for kids.

Einstein was horrible in school, and failed math.

Prove it.

He wanted atomic ENERGY but not a bomb, because he was pacifist.

And yet he took part in the Manhatten Project, which was about atomic bombs.

Unless you can provide this mysterious source of yours that disproves every other source in the known universe.

[Katganistan]

You know what the solution is?

Boys putting away their phones and not fucking around during class time, then going home, doing the reading, and doing the homework, projects and other associated work.

When I was a kid, parents did this thing called parenting which involved removing toys that distracted their spawn from doing the work at school, removing privileges if the removal of toys did not make an impression, and working up to more unpleasant measures if indicated by failure to change.

Cutting off the beer and pizza money till grades improve in college would be an idea, too. And if all else fails, tell junior to get a job to pay for college since Mom and Pop aren't going to waste money so they can fuck around in college.

[Great Valencia]

You know what the solution is?

Boys putting away their phones and not fucking around during class time, then going home, doing the reading, and doing the homework, projects and other associated work.

When I was a kid, parents did this thing called parenting which involved removing toys that distracted their spawn from doing the work at school, removing privileges if the removal of toys did not make an impression, and working up to more unpleasant measures if indicated by failure to change.

Agreed.

Hell, when I was a kid all my parents did was sign me up for school and I was left to myself since about age 9

[Northwest Slobovia]

You know what the solution is?

[...]

When I was a kid, parents did this thing called parenting which involved removing toys that distracted their spawn from doing the work at school, removing privileges if the removal of toys did not make an impression, and working up to more unpleasant measures if indicated by failure to change.

So, the beatings will continue until morale improves?

[Saint Jade IV]

I think that a lot of the concern over boys failing in larger numbers in school is certainly cause for concern. What I don't agree with is that the increase in girls' achieving better results is indicative of a problem with the way education is delivered. In a lot of cases, there is still a societal perception that boys don't read books, and boys don't do well in "girly" subjects. With the move to a knowledge economy as more and more jobs are in those sectors, and less and less in the trades and unskilled labour, those who can succeed in "girly" subjects are more likely to do well than those who cannot.

I also think the fact that at least in Australia, most fully qualified tradesmen in the electrical, plastering, building, painting, welding and plumbing trades, as well as miners, have incomes far exceeding that of the typical university graduate entices a lot of boys into these areas since they make money throughout their apprenticeship, unlike university students, and finish their apprenticeship with a lot more money behind them. The "female" equivalents of trades out here - childcare, hairdressing, hospitality - generally are much, much lower in pay than those jobs which are attained through study at university.

[Machtergreifung]

One of the main plus points for me at school was the good class I was in.

Though, the fact that guys were a small percentage in the class with all the hotties might of helped......alot....

[Bottle]

You know what the solution is?

Boys putting away their phones and not fucking around during class time, then going home, doing the reading, and doing the homework, projects and other associated work.

When I was a kid, parents did this thing called parenting which involved removing toys that distracted their spawn from doing the work at school, removing privileges if the removal of toys did not make an impression, and working up to more unpleasant measures if indicated by failure to change.

Cutting off the beer and pizza money till grades improve in college would be an idea, too. And if all else fails, tell junior to get a job to pay for college since Mom and Pop aren't going to waste money so they can fuck around in college.

It would also help if, instead of diagnosing every freaking little boy as being "ADHD" and putting him on medication, people noticed that a lot of the "hyperactive" behaviors are the result of shitty parenting. Boys are encouraged to be little monsters, because people think it's adorable and say boys-will-be-boys, but then when the cute widdle boy becomes a significantly less cute 12 year old it turns out that raising your son to act like Dennis the Menace doesn't really help him succeed in school. And no amount of Ritalin will fix 12 years of lousing parenting.

[Greed and Death]

This just means the bosses at the corporations will be dumber and dumber.

[Dakini]

Einstein was horrible in school, and failed math.

No, he wasn't and no he didn't.

He wanted atomic ENERGY but not a bomb, because he was pacifist.

Actually, he was worried that the Germans would get the bomb first so he encouraged the Americans to develop it. He regretted signing the letter encouraging them to do so because it was used against civilian populations, but also thought it would have been worse if the Germans got it first.

[Dakini]

Yes.
I dont think Einstein had anything to do with the bomb since he was pacifist, he just wanted nuclear power.
That was Oppenheimer youre thinking of.

Einstein was part of the Manhattan Project.

No he wasn't.

[Machtergreifung]

Einstein was part of the Manhattan Project.

No he wasn't.

Einstein was the cause of the Manhatten Project, as without him, it would have been the late fifties before anyone had a clue.

[Yootwopia]

You know what the solution is?

Boys putting away their phones and not fucking around during class time, then going home, doing the reading, and doing the homework, projects and other associated work.

Female students never pissing away their time on idle gossip. Oh no.