What do you think of the college Greek system? Roll Call!

[The_pantless_hero]

Out of my pledge class a majority of the guys were engineering majors. Wouldn't exactly call that a "piece of cake"

I can name at least 4 types of engineers off the top of my head, all at entirely different levels of challenging to complete.

The university I went to was one of the highest ranked public engineering schools in the nation. Our engineering department was pretty damn difficult and everyone in the college was required to take the same general education requirements including physics and chemistry, three levels of engineering grade calculus, analytical writing, computer programing, and several general engineering courses. One could choose to matriculate into any engineering offered if they completed all the general courses.

I like how you managed to sit there and be spitefully defensive while not actually naming the type of engineering anyone was doing. Nor whatever the hell "engineering grade" calculus is.
And as for chemistry, physics, computer programming, and such, yes all colleges require those kind of classes to get a degree. In addition to english and general electives usually consisting of more artistic classes. Good job not saying anything, did you take Political Science as a general elective for your nondescript engineering degree?

[Intestinal fluids]

And I find the use of exam files, test banks, and the like to be a form of cheating.

Based on what exactly? Cheating is being aware of the questions or having answers prior to taking of a test. If no questions on the current test meet this criteria, what exactly is the offense?

[Daistallia 2104]

And I find the use of exam files, test banks, and the like to be a form of cheating.

Based on what exactly? Cheating is being aware of the questions or having answers prior to taking of a test. If no questions on the current test meet this criteria, what exactly is the offense?

I'm simply not surprised you don't see why giving an unfair edge not based on actually having learned the material might be considered cheating...

[Intestinal fluids]

I'm simply not surprised you don't see why giving an unfair edge not based on actually having learned the material might be considered cheating...

I have news for you, in college your TAUGHT to use sources that mankind has already discovered to boost your current level of knowledge and understanding. The reason tests are returned to students after taking them in the first place is so students may learn from their mistakes. Is there any ethical violation if i also learn from my brothers mistake as well? Nonsense.

[Daistallia 2104]

Is there any ethical violation if i also learn from my brothers mistake as well? Nonsense.

When you use such methods to avoid actually learning the material, as test banks do, absolutely YES!

[Parthenon]

I can name at least 4 types of engineers off the top of my head, all at entirely different levels of challenging to complete.

The university I went to was one of the highest ranked public engineering schools in the nation. Our engineering department was pretty damn difficult and everyone in the college was required to take the same general education requirements including physics and chemistry, three levels of engineering grade calculus, analytical writing, computer programing, and several general engineering courses. One could choose to matriculate into any engineering offered if they completed all the general courses.

I like how you managed to sit there and be spitefully defensive while not actually naming the type of engineering anyone was doing. Nor whatever the hell "engineering grade" calculus is.
And as for chemistry, physics, computer programming, and such, yes all colleges require those kind of classes to get a degree. In addition to english and general electives usually consisting of more artistic classes. Good job not saying anything, did you take Political Science as a general elective for your nondescript engineering degree?

NCSU offered three different calc courses depending on the major. 121 was mainly for the liberal art kids, 131 for the basic science majors, 141 for engineering and the mathematical science majors. I have included the catalog reference for your reading below. I came from a large pledge class so naming all of their majors would be quite difficult and take far too long but I had several duel majoring in electrical and computer engineering, a few in aerospace engineering, a couple in mechanical, one in industrial, and so on so forth.

MA 121 Elements of Calculus UNITS: 3 - Offered in Fall Spring Summer
Prerequisite: MA 107 or 111 or placement via Level Two Achievement Test
For students who require only a single semester of calculus. Emphasis on concepts and applications of calculus, along with basic skills. Algebra review, functions, graphs, limits, derivatives, integrals, logarithmic and exponential functions, functions of several variables, applications in management, applications in biological and social sciences. Credit is not allowed in more than one of MA 121, 131, 141. MA 121 may not be substituted for MA 131 or MA 141 as a curricular requirement

MA 131 Calculus for Life and Management Sciences A UNITS: 3 - Offered in Fall Spring Summer
Prerequisite: C or better in MA 107 or MA 111 or placement via Level Two Achievement Test
First order finite difference models; derivatives - limits, power rule, graphing, and optimization; exponential and logarithmic functions - growth and decay models; integrals - computation, area, total change; applications in life, management, and social sciences. Credit not allowed for more than one of MA 121, 131, and 141

MA 141 Calculus I UNITS: 4 - Offered in Fall Spring Summer
Prerequisite: MA 111 with grade of C- or better or placement via Level Two Achievement Test
First of three semesters in a calculus sequence for science and engineering majors. Functions, graphs, limits, derivatives, rules of differentiation, definite integrals, fundamental theorem of calculus, applications of derivatives and integrals. Use of computation tools. Credit is not allowed for more than one of MA 141, 131, 121

[Parthenon]

Is there any ethical violation if i also learn from my brothers mistake as well? Nonsense.

When you use such methods to avoid actually learning the material, as test banks do, absolutely YES!

If all you do to study is look over a dated test you will not pass the class, I guarantee that.

[The_pantless_hero]

MA 141 Calculus I UNITS: 4 - Offered in Fall Spring Summer
Prerequisite: MA 111 with grade of C- or better or placement via Level Two Achievement Test
First of three semesters in a calculus sequence for science and engineering majors. Functions, graphs, limits, derivatives, rules of differentiation, definite integrals, fundamental theorem of calculus, applications of derivatives and integrals. Use of computation tools. Credit is not allowed for more than one of MA 141, 131, 121

I hated derivatives and integrals but not as much as I hated probability, and statistics.

[Intestinal fluids]

When you use such methods to avoid actually learning the material, as test banks do, absolutely YES!

Stop dancing in circles. Either admit a good teacher wont be issuing new tests with repeat questions with repeat answers thereby rending prior knowledge of previous questions irrelevant or explain how this reality fits in your current argument please.

[Parthenon]

So, again, did you take political science for your general elective or did your "top engineering" school not offer different types of engineering degrees? And if not, which actual form of engineering, as defined in the real world, did they get degrees in?

MA 141 Calculus I UNITS: 4 - Offered in Fall Spring Summer
Prerequisite: MA 111 with grade of C- or better or placement via Level Two Achievement Test
First of three semesters in a calculus sequence for science and engineering majors. Functions, graphs, limits, derivatives, rules of differentiation, definite integrals, fundamental theorem of calculus, applications of derivatives and integrals. Use of computation tools. Credit is not allowed for more than one of MA 141, 131, 121

I hated derivatives and integrals but not as much as I hated probability, and statistics.

I was a computer engineering major for my first two years of school but switched to Political Science for graduation as I couldn't see myself being an engineer for the rest of my life.

NCSU's engineering school offered the following majors.

# Aerospace Engineering
# Biological Engineering, with concentrations in

* Agricultural Engineering
* Bioprocessing Engineering
* Environmental Engineering

# Biomedical Engineering
# BSE - Mechatronics [UNC-Asheville]
# Chemical Engineering, with concentrations in

* Biomolecular Concentration
* Green Engineering and Science Concentration
* Nanoscience Concentration
* Honors Concentration

# Civil Engineering
# Construction Engineering and Management: General Construction
# Construction Engineering and Management: Mechanical Construction
# Computer Engineering
# Computer Science
# Electrical Engineering
# Environmental Engineering
# Industrial Engineering
# Industrial Engineering: Furniture Manufacturing
# Mechanical Engineering
# Materials Science and Engineering
# Nuclear Engineering
# Paper Science and Engineering
# Textile Engineering

http://www.engr.ncsu.edu/undergrad/curricula/
Click on one of them and you can get to a page with the graduation reqs. Click on "Degree Audit" to see this.

[Daistallia 2104]

When you use such methods to avoid actually learning the material, as test banks do, absolutely YES!

Stop dancing in circles. Either admit a good teacher wont be issuing new tests with repeat questions with repeat answers thereby rending prior knowledge of previous questions irrelevant or explain how this reality fits in your current argument please.

No dancing in circles here. Compiling a test bank gives an unfair advantage. Period. End of story. If you cannot see why, you are morally beyond help.

[Parthenon]

Did you miss where I said most fraternities aren't even using test banks anymore given how obsolete they are? Hell, last I saw ours was gathering dust in a filing cabinet in an office and wasn't updated since the mid 90s. Course websites at most major university include sample tests or question banks that really put anything Greeks ever used to shame in that regards.

[The_pantless_hero]

Did you miss where I said most fraternities aren't even using test banks anymore given how obsolete they are? Hell, last I saw ours was gathering dust in a filing cabinet in an office and wasn't updated since the mid 90s. Course websites at most major university include sample tests or question banks that really put anything Greeks ever used to shame in that regards.

You are very, very obviously not getting the point they are making and are actually further proving it with every new post.

[Greed and Death]

Not to be a hardass, but I'm not quite so sure that's a valid statement. What exactly is there to learn when you have a bottle of Bud in one hand, and a pretty girl off to your left?

Social skills. Arguably equally as important in business as knowledge. Charming, confident and presentable can get you a long way in business.

This is why I don't tend to have much respect for business degrees. A lot of them are "how to schmooze" instead of actual learning.

From my current aesthetics teacher. In the 1960's my university experimented with not having a fraternity sorority system. Business's stopped hiring graduates form the school. Intermediaries between business and the university said it was because the graduates were too boring. And it is not just pure BBA's Accountants as well. You see if a fraternity/sorority sister has a degree in accounting I know I can take him to a client and have him explain whats going on with his money in terms he can understand, and without boring him. Because he would have talked about his degree with people who are not in his degree while in the fraternity. He also knows the rules of conversation.

[Aelosia]

From my current aesthetics teacher. In the 1960's my university experimented with not having a fraternity sorority system. Business's stopped hiring graduates form the school. Intermediaries between business and the university said it was because the graduates were too boring. And it is not just pure BBA's Accountants as well. You see if a fraternity/sorority sister has a degree in accounting I know I can take him to a client and have him explain whats going on with his money in terms he can understand, and without boring him. Because he would have talked about his degree with people who are not in his degree while in the fraternity. He also knows the rules of conversation.

And you need to be in a frat to have that?

I mean, in your country, people need entry into some kind of social elitist club to develop social skills?

How is people in High School over there, I wonder?

And what kind of business do not hire people because they are "boring"? I work for media, in entertaiment, and believe me, not even here we base our criteria on "how entertaining the people is", unless we are hiring comedians.

[Daistallia 2104]

From my current aesthetics teacher. In the 1960's my university experimented with not having a fraternity sorority system. Business's stopped hiring graduates form the school. Intermediaries between business and the university said it was because the graduates were too boring. And it is not just pure BBA's Accountants as well. You see if a fraternity/sorority sister has a degree in accounting I know I can take him to a client and have him explain whats going on with his money in terms he can understand, and without boring him. Because he would have talked about his degree with people who are not in his degree while in the fraternity. He also knows the rules of conversation.

An excellent argument for kicking business out of the universities.

[Sdaeriji]

From my current aesthetics teacher. In the 1960's my university experimented with not having a fraternity sorority system. Business's stopped hiring graduates form the school. Intermediaries between business and the university said it was because the graduates were too boring. And it is not just pure BBA's Accountants as well. You see if a fraternity/sorority sister has a degree in accounting I know I can take him to a client and have him explain whats going on with his money in terms he can understand, and without boring him. Because he would have talked about his degree with people who are not in his degree while in the fraternity. He also knows the rules of conversation.

If businesses stopped hiring from your university solely because the applicants were "boring", then they had shitty recruiters and headhunters. When I'm hiring someone, I'm not looking to hear a cool story, bro. I'm looking for an understanding and an ability to perform the job that I'm trying to fill. And unless you were in a leadership role at your fraternity, I don't want to hear shit about your time at Kappa Kappa Kappa. Frankly, it's irrelevant.

[Concurria]

Not to be a hardass, but I'm not quite so sure that's a valid statement. What exactly is there to learn when you have a bottle of Bud in one hand, and a pretty girl off to your left?

Social skills. Arguably equally as important in business as knowledge. Charming, confident and presentable can get you a long way in business.

This is why I don't tend to have much respect for business degrees. A lot of them are "how to schmooze" instead of actual learning.

This is an argument made in higher education, much less, among lay people.

[Daistallia 2104]

This is an argument made in higher education, much less, among lay people.

Huh?

Sorry, but that made no sense...

[Concurria]

This is an argument made in higher education, much less, among lay people.

Huh?

Sorry, but that made no sense...

As in like among academics who discuss Higher Ed.

[Daistallia 2104]

As in like among academics who discuss Higher Ed.

Still not making sense of those last two clauses.

[Ifreann]

As in like among academics who discuss Higher Ed.

Still not making sense of those last two clauses.

I think he's trying to say that academics make arguments about removing business courses from universities and colleges, where as the rest of society would not.


Though what point this is meant to have is beyond me.

[Concurria]

As in like among academics who discuss Higher Ed.

Still not making sense of those last two clauses.

The issue: The Business major.
The debaters: College administrators and PhD educators.
The question: Does the Business major hold a candle to the technical and philosophical demands of the BA and BS degrees?
The answer: Still searching.

[Concurria]

As in like among academics who discuss Higher Ed.

Still not making sense of those last two clauses.

I think he's trying to say that academics make arguments about removing business courses from universities and colleges, where as the rest of society would not.


Though what point this is meant to have is beyond me.

I think a lot of people would though.

[Ifreann]

As in like among academics who discuss Higher Ed.

Still not making sense of those last two clauses.

The issue: The Business major.
The debaters: College administrators and PhD educators.
The question: Does the Business major hold a candle to the technical and philosophical demands of the BA and BS degrees?
The answer: Still searching.

And what is your point?