What do you think of the college Greek system? Roll Call!

[Concurria]

The Greek system doesn't exist here. We seem to manage a good amount of drunken debauchery without it.


Though, we're Irish. Drunken debauchery isn't a sport for us, its a way of life.

Notra Dom?

No, I'm actually Irish and I attend an actual Irish college that's actually located on the island of Ireland.

Omg win.

[Aelosia]

There is more to learning than what you see inside the pages of a book. That being said, you are hard pressed to find a fraternity whose GPA is below the All Men's average. If a fraternity's gpa gets too low the campus would go about putting them on social probation, not something that is many greeks want to go through.

Yeah, but I can learn binge drinking and how to get raped at a party in any custom bar in shanty town, I don't need to expend a ridiculous amount of money for it. The learning "not in the pages of a book" related to college doesn't have anything to do with whatever a fraternity does. And sorry for believing that reading between lines, your "dbag" story sounds to me like two machos playing the violent game of getting some cavewomen.

[Concurria]

Depravity was what college was all about and if it wasnt for you, then you didnt do it right. I was in a great and wild fraternity, but our grades were higher then the student body average and noone ever got arrested and only times the cops ever showed up was for the occasional noise complaint. Depravity? Lots of it. But it was good clean harmless fun and 20 years later, the entire experience STILL puts a smile on my face. How many things ever happened to you that can do that?

College was about learning for most. That is why it was designed.

The fact that college was all about depravity for you teaches that your moral horse is truly wild. And you as a representative of the system your are depicting is depraved, and ridiculous.

There is more to learning than what you see inside the pages of a book. That being said, you are hard pressed to find a fraternity whose GPA is below the All Men's average. If a fraternity's gpa gets too low the campus would go about putting them on social probation, not something that is many greeks want to go through.

Not to be a hardass, but I'm not quite so sure that's a valid statement. What exactly is there to learn when you have a bottle of Bud in one hand, and a pretty girl off to your left?

I've found that people who argue "there's more to college than books" are the least likely to offer the type of stimulating interaction they allude to. If I could find people that were scholars and inquirers 24/7, i'd be there in seconds flat. But at least here, that isn't the case. When people close the books, they usually close an attempt to learn past what they already know.

[Greed and Death]

College was about learning for most. That is why it was designed.

The fact that college was all about depravity for you teaches that your moral horse is truly wild. And you as a representative of the system your are depicting is depraved, and ridiculous.

There is more to learning than what you see inside the pages of a book. That being said, you are hard pressed to find a fraternity whose GPA is below the All Men's average. If a fraternity's gpa gets too low the campus would go about putting them on social probation, not something that is many greeks want to go through.

Not to be a hardass, but I'm not quite so sure that's a valid statement. What exactly is there to learn when you have a bottle of Bud in one hand, and a pretty girl off to your left?

I've found that people who argue "there's more to college than books" are the least likely to offer the type of stimulating interaction they allude to. If I could find people that were scholars and inquirers 24/7, i'd be there in seconds flat. But at least here, that isn't the case. When people close the books, they usually close an attempt to learn past what they already know.

Fraternity life is more then just getting drunk and getting some. You form connections that will get you a job when you graduate.
It is sort of a class on how to be social in a business environment.

[Intestinal fluids]

Not to be a hardass, but I'm not quite so sure that's a valid statement. What exactly is there to learn when you have a bottle of Bud in one hand, and a pretty girl off to your left?

Social skills. Arguably equally as important in business as knowledge. Charming, confident and presentable can get you a long way in business.

[Concurria]

Yes but if you remove the alcohol, can you be as successful?

There's this book I'd recommend called Smashed by Koren Zailckas. It's based on her true story as a Sorority member who struggles with alcohol abuse. In the end, she actually discusses her life after college and how all the fratty and sorority girls and boys didn't change their habits: That they still showed up to cocktail parties and bars together after work and still socialized and had a good time with alcohol in their hands. But she lamented it because one, she can't drink anymore for her well-being, and two, nothing much changed.

That isn't something I'd support. I'm not a student of "business," so it's a non-issue, fortunately.

[Dakini]

I've found that people who argue "there's more to college than books" are the least likely to offer the type of stimulating interaction they allude to. If I could find people that were scholars and inquirers 24/7, i'd be there in seconds flat. But at least here, that isn't the case. When people close the books, they usually close an attempt to learn past what they already know.

I would say that there's more to college than books... but not in the same way others seem to be saying it.

There's more to college than books because you do learn course material outside of textbooks. From profs and peers alike. Often the textbooks are unclear and profs are sometimes very helpful (and when they aren't, your peers who are a bit quicker are). There are also ample opportunities for intellectual discussion, which may or may not be fueled by a few drinks at a pub and may involve graphs hastily drawn on napkins.

But also, for me, college was the first time I lived away from home so there was also a lot of learning about cooking for myself regularly, cleaning more than just a small part of a house, dealing with roommates, balancing a budget, time management etc... basically how to be a "grown up" (sort of).

But you also definitely don't have to be a part of a lame club to do this. I suspect that involvement in fraternities/sororities impedes the sort of extracurricular learning that you should do in general.

[Dakini]

Not to be a hardass, but I'm not quite so sure that's a valid statement. What exactly is there to learn when you have a bottle of Bud in one hand, and a pretty girl off to your left?

Social skills. Arguably equally as important in business as knowledge. Charming, confident and presentable can get you a long way in business.

This is why I don't tend to have much respect for business degrees. A lot of them are "how to schmooze" instead of actual learning.

[The_pantless_hero]

The Greek system doesn't exist here. We seem to manage a good amount of drunken debauchery without it.


Though, we're Irish. Drunken debauchery isn't a sport for us, its a way of life.

Notra Dom?

No, I'm actually Irish and I attend an actual Irish college that's actually located on the island of Ireland.

How silly.

[Daistallia 2104]

Not to be a hardass, but I'm not quite so sure that's a valid statement. What exactly is there to learn when you have a bottle of Bud in one hand, and a pretty girl off to your left?

Social skills. Arguably equally as important in business as knowledge. Charming, confident and presentable can get you a long way in business.

This is why I don't tend to have much respect for business degrees. A lot of them are "how to schmooze" instead of actual learning.

This is indeed one of the big reasons why I believe that business, and many other fields currently offering degrees, have no place at the university. Business education ought to be carried out via apprentice/internships. Especially when it's being argued that said skills are not being learned at unis.

[Daistallia 2104]

But you also definitely don't have to be a part of a lame club to do this. I suspect that involvement in fraternities/sororities impedes the sort of extracurricular learning that you should do in general.

Indeed. See the example I gave above of the frat rat who had rather attended a frat party than pass a course.

BTW, I suspect the higher GPAs claimed by Parth and others are partly due to what ought to rightly be called frat cheating schemes - exam files and the like that they keep for "study purposes".

[Dakini]

Social skills. Arguably equally as important in business as knowledge. Charming, confident and presentable can get you a long way in business.

This is why I don't tend to have much respect for business degrees. A lot of them are "how to schmooze" instead of actual learning.

This is indeed one of the big reasons why I believe that business, and many other fields currently offering degrees, have no place at the university. Business education ought to be carried out via apprentice/internships. Especially when it's being argued that said skills are not being learned at unis.

Indeed.

[Parthenon]

Test banks are obsolete in this day and age. Professors either require tests to be handed in, change them each semester, or post samples from previous years on the course website.
The true reason that fraternities have higher GPAs is threefold:

Fraternities teach effective time management to freshman at an accelerated rate than they would learn on their own.

You have brothers in just about every major that have taken just about every class offered by the university and would tutor you in it for free.

One loses social privileges and gets additional study hours if they slack off one semester and score below the fraternity minimum.

[Dyakovo]

I'm not sure which is sadder the desperate aspiration to elitism that causes many to think they should belong to the Greek system or the depravity that many of members of that system brag about.

I'd say they're equally sad.

[Dakini]

But you also definitely don't have to be a part of a lame club to do this. I suspect that involvement in fraternities/sororities impedes the sort of extracurricular learning that you should do in general.

Indeed. See the example I gave above of the frat rat who had rather attended a frat party than pass a course.

BTW, I suspect the higher GPAs claimed by Parth and others are partly due to what ought to rightly be called frat cheating schemes - exam files and the like that they keep for "study purposes".

I also suspect that choosing easier majors has something to do with it. If most of the people going through fraternities and sororities are taking business degrees, of course they're going to have higher GPAs than average since there are much more difficult fields and some departments decide that the average in courses should be lower than others. For instance at my undergrad institution the physics department deemed that the grade distribution should be roughly Gaussian with an average of a mid to low-B. If the grades were generally higher than this going into the exam, a professor would usually write a harder exam to lower it, if they were lower then the grades would be curved at the end.

[Daistallia 2104]

I also suspect that choosing easier majors has something to do with it. If most of the people going through fraternities and sororities are taking business degrees, of course they're going to have higher GPAs than average since there are much more difficult fields and some departments decide that the average in courses should be lower than others. For instance at my undergrad institution the physics department deemed that the grade distribution should be roughly Gaussian with an average of a mid to low-B. If the grades were generally higher than this going into the exam, a professor would usually write a harder exam to lower it, if they were lower then the grades would be curved at the end.

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

It wouldn't surprise me either if a business seminar prof would have let that "skipping the presentation for a frat party" thing slide either...

[Parthenon]

Out of my pledge class a majority of the guys were engineering majors. Wouldn't exactly call that a "piece of cake"

[Daistallia 2104]

Test banks are obsolete in this day and age. Professors either require tests to be handed in, change them each semester, or post samples from previous years on the course website.
The true reason that fraternities have higher GPAs is threefold:

Fraternities teach effective time management to freshman at an accelerated rate than they would learn on their own.

You have brothers in just about every major that have taken just about every class offered by the university and would tutor you in it for free.

One loses social privileges and gets additional study hours if they slack off one semester and score below the fraternity minimum.

All I'll say back to that for now is 1) that you've basically copped to a form of cheating and 2) I'm dubious of your other claims...

[Parthenon]

How the hell is stating that test banks are obsolete copping up to cheating?

[The_pantless_hero]

Out of my pledge class a majority of the guys were engineering majors. Wouldn't exactly call that a "piece of cake"

I can name at least 4 types of engineers off the top of my head, all at entirely different levels of challenging to complete.

[Dyakovo]

How the hell is stating that test banks are obsolete copping up to cheating?

It is admitting to having used them.

[Intestinal fluids]

BTW, I suspect the higher GPAs claimed by Parth and others are partly due to what ought to rightly be called frat cheating schemes - exam files and the like that they keep for "study purposes".

I find this claim offensive and if you went to any University worth a damn, the professors dont recycle the same tests and answers year after year so having answers from past tests would be exactly that,and that only, a study guide.

[Dakini]

Out of my pledge class a majority of the guys were engineering majors. Wouldn't exactly call that a "piece of cake"

I can name at least 4 types of engineers off the top of my head, all at entirely different levels of challenging to complete.

Yeah, engineering majors are highly variable in their difficulty level. This is the impression that I got from having to take a couple of classes with them. Although I got the impression that the engineering physics degree, despite being one of the harder ones was generally easier than the physics degree. I'm not sure if the same is true of other sciences compared to their engineering equivalent, but in general, engineers don't go into the theory as much which is usually the tougher part.

[Parthenon]

Out of my pledge class a majority of the guys were engineering majors. Wouldn't exactly call that a "piece of cake"

I can name at least 4 types of engineers off the top of my head, all at entirely different levels of challenging to complete.

The university I went to was one of the highest ranked public engineering schools in the nation. Our engineering department was pretty damn difficult and everyone in the college was required to take the same general education requirements including physics and chemistry, three levels of engineering grade calculus, analytical writing, computer programing, and several general engineering courses. One could choose to matriculate into any engineering offered if they completed all the general courses.

How the hell is stating that test banks are obsolete copping up to cheating?

It is admitting to having used them.

Never used one. The shit was obsolete and the professors gave sample tests out.

[Daistallia 2104]

How the hell is stating that test banks are obsolete copping up to cheating?

It is admitting to having used them.

Exactly so.

I find this claim offensive and if you went to any University worth a damn, the professors dont recycle the same tests and answers year after year so having answers from past tests would be exactly that,and that only, a study guide.

And I find the use of exam files, test banks, and the like to be a form of cheating. If they were open study guides I'd be slightly more disinclined to consider them so.