NationStates

The Deleted Chris wrote:

Fnordgasm 5 wrote:



I'm having a little trouble reconciling these two statements. Care to comment?

Perhaps you're just a little bit special?

perhaps you might consider answering the OP instead of making the thread about yourself.

To me "Libertarian" means: Gay Republican.

The Deleted Chris wrote:Oh do grow up. As any number of the British threads here show, it's perfectly possible to have a constructive, informed and intelligent discussion between people of radically divergent opinions without rancour, smugness or abrasiveness.

Because calling people 'special' if they don't agree with you is totally constructive, informed and intelligent.

Tasty flame-grilled failure.

The Deleted Chris wrote:

Fnordgasm 5 wrote:



I'm having a little trouble reconciling these two statements. Care to comment?

Perhaps you're just a little bit special?

That may be true but come now, you're supposed to be a highly educated adult man but all you've contributed to this thread is needless flames and blatant hypocrisy. Seriously, I expected better from you. It really is a shame.

Fnordgasm 5 wrote:

The Deleted Chris wrote:
Perhaps you're just a little bit special?

That may be true but come now, you're supposed to be a highly educated adult man but all you've contributed to this thread is needless flames and blatant hypocrisy. Seriously, I expected better from you. It really is a shame.

What would you have me respond instead? I don't see any discordance between the two posts you cited.

The Deleted Chris wrote:

Fnordgasm 5 wrote:
That may be true but come now, you're supposed to be a highly educated adult man but all you've contributed to this thread is needless flames and blatant hypocrisy. Seriously, I expected better from you. It really is a shame.

What would you have me respond instead? I don't see any discordance between the two posts you cited.

Nothing. We're done now.

Libertarianism cant exist with an ignorant population. Non coercion is the basis for libertarianism. If you have a society of people coming together with no central authority and participated in society with non- coercion as the only rule then that society would flourish on all levels. Charity would surpass any welfare state and no means to make money as long as it didnt involve coercion would be banned. The economy would be so robust and innovative that a libertarian society would be the most advanced in the world. People confuse a free market with corporatism (todays world) where government enables most of the the "corporate evils" we see. In a true free market reputation is a business's greatest asset and the consumer is the regulator. Without the state a corporation would have to compete on its own merits.

I think a libertarian believes that we should be free to run our own lives without interference from the "bigs", whether that be government OR transnationals.

Seriously now, neocons, how much better is it to be ruled by Transworld than by your own elected officials?

They both stink.

Fultzlandshiretownton wrote:Libertarianism cant exist with an ignorant population. Non coercion is the basis for libertarianism. If you have a society of people coming together with no central authority and participated in society with non- coercion as the only rule then that society would flourish on all levels. Charity would surpass any welfare state and no means to make money as long as it didnt involve coercion would be banned. The economy would be so robust and innovative that a libertarian society would be the most advanced in the world. People confuse a free market with corporatism (todays world) where government enables most of the the "corporate evils" we see. In a true free market reputation is a business's greatest asset and the consumer is the regulator. Without the state a corporation would have to compete on its own merits.

Unfortunately, if the corporations aren't restrained we'll have more fannie/freddie/lehman/etc. incidents.

Those all came about by the state

Freedom.

Fultzlandshiretownton wrote:Those all came about by the state

By the lack of state, actually; if there were proper regulations they wouldn't be able to make so many risky (and, in the end, catastrophic) loans.

A laizes-faire economic system, vast civil liberities, only the laws that can be enforced are enforced, and very little government spending and taxes esentially creating limited government, not to be confused with a small government but a government that would have a hard time stamping out freedoms and oversteping boundries.

Meikoland wrote:A laizes-faire economic system, vast civil liberities, only the laws that can be enforced are enforced, and very little government spending and taxes esentially creating limited government, not to be confused with a small government but a government that would have a hard time stamping out freedoms and oversteping boundries.

This.

To me, it means anyone who wants to maximize personal freedom.

The federal reserve meddling caused the collapse by distorting reality. They artifically held interest rates low and made money cheap. As a result the market saw it as a sign that everything was going great and we should be spending all that cheap worthless money. Instead we should have been saving. When the blinders were removed we saw we were headed over the cliff and it was too late to do anything about it. Our Government screwed us just like they caused the Great Drepression. Through the Fed

They are opposite of "authoritarian" on a personal freedom axis. It is not a left or right term. Personally I ticks me off how half of the "libertarians" out there don't even know what libertarianism is.

The Congregationists wrote:So how would you define "libertarian" then?

Watered down Ayn Rand, mixed in with some Aristotelian and anarchist ideas.

South Lorenya wrote:

Fultzlandshiretownton wrote:Those all came about by the state

By the lack of state, actually; if there were proper regulations they wouldn't be able to make so many risky (and, in the end, catastrophic) loans.

Apparently lack of state intervention is what allows the state to take over businesses. What are you smoking in what universe?

To me, libertarian means compassionate people against war and coercion.

Bendira wrote:To me, libertarian means compassionate people against war and coercion.

That seems to bear no relevance at all to the libertarian political ideology.

Pope Joan wrote:I think a libertarian believes that we should be free to run our own lives without interference from the "bigs", whether that be government OR transnationals.

Seriously now, neocons, how much better is it to be ruled by Transworld than by your own elected officials?

They both stink.

Libertarianism is incompatible with basic human nature of the desire of power.

Instead of the state telling you what to do, you have a guy with a large amount of thugs telling you what to do.....

North Suran wrote:

Bendira wrote:To me, libertarian means compassionate people against war and coercion.

That seems to bear no relevance at all to the libertarian political ideology.

Libertarians are, generally, pacifists, even Ron Paul is against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. And coercion is a central theme to libertarianism since they are socially libertarian.

Meryuma wrote:

South Lorenya wrote:
By the lack of state, actually; if there were proper regulations they wouldn't be able to make so many risky (and, in the end, catastrophic) loans.

Apparently lack of state intervention is what allows the state to take over businesses. What are you smoking in what universe?

Keep in mind that the state didn't take them over until AFTER their catastrophic failures; before them, all we had was bush playing the fiddle while the banking sector burned.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Pope Joan wrote:I think a libertarian believes that we should be free to run our own lives without interference from the "bigs", whether that be government OR transnationals.

Seriously now, neocons, how much better is it to be ruled by Transworld than by your own elected officials?

They both stink.

Libertarianism is incompatible with basic human nature of the desire of power.

Instead of the state telling you what to do, you have a guy with a large amount of thugs telling you what to do.....

So you recruit your own thugs.

I do think we need to think outside the political box.

We need freedom on more arenas than the merely political.