What does "Libertarian" mean to you?

[Innsmothe]

Near-unlimited personal freedom, but, putting a firm leash of regulations on buisness practices whilst enforcing them with a firm hand.

[Notodonta ziczac]

Smoking a cigarette in the privacy of your own home, or better yet, smoking a joint, having a drink, then calling a hooker for some action affects you how exactly?

well obviously the hooker is affected. plenty of people would also be affected due to the growing and sale of tobacco weed and alcohol. whether its a bad effect or not is up for debate and mostly a matter of opinion (personally i think theyre all fine as long as weed is legal and thus not controlled by criminal gangs and the hooker isnt being exploited), but its not like any of those things happen in a total vacuum

[Altjira]

To me a Libertarian is someone who values his own freedom more than the freedom of those below him, and will bully, cheat and lie to any extent to put and keep other people below him. I've yet to personally meet someone calling themselves Libertarian who actually wants freedom or equality for all. Of course here in North Sweden we like to call those who speak for social equality Socialists and those who speak for economic freedom Liberals and they are complete opposites on the political spectrum, so it may be a cultural thing.

[Tagmatium]

A belief that the free-market fairy will solve every problem.

As blinkered as those on the socialist/communist side, just economically opposed.

[Innsmothe]

A belief that the free-market fairy will solve every problem.

As blinkered as those on the socialist/communist side, just economically opposed.

Errr... libertarian-socialist here?

[Tagmatium]

A belief that the free-market fairy will solve every problem.

As blinkered as those on the socialist/communist side, just economically opposed.

Errr... libertarian-socialist here?

There's always one...

But I imagine you know what I mean, however.

[Lackadaisical2]

A belief that the free-market fairy will solve every problem.

I don't think it'll solve all the problems, just that its worth the increase in economic freedom.

[Jakaragua]

A belief that the free-market fairy will solve every problem.

I don't think it'll solve all the problems, just that its worth the increase in economic freedom.

More economic "freedom" for the businessman, less for the proles...

[Servantium]

A belief that the free-market fairy will solve every problem.

I don't think it'll solve all the problems, just that its worth the increase in economic freedom.

Exactly, for a lot of libertarians (including mysaelf) it's not about improving the quality of life or society (Although many more think that limited/no government and Laissez-faire capialism would). It's about the maximization of individual liberty.

[Innsmothe]

I don't think it'll solve all the problems, just that its worth the increase in economic freedom.

Exactly, for a lot of libertarians (including mysaelf) it's not about improving the quality of life or society (Although many more think that limited/no government and Laissez-faire capialism would). It's about the maximization of individual liberty.

Freer market =/= freer people

Less civil laws = freer people

[Servantium]

Exactly, for a lot of libertarians (including mysaelf) it's not about improving the quality of life or society (Although many more think that limited/no government and Laissez-faire capialism would). It's about the maximization of individual liberty.

Freer market =/= freer people

Define free, the definition one uses is important. Yours is likely different than mine.

[Lackadaisical2]

Exactly, for a lot of libertarians (including mysaelf) it's not about improving the quality of life or society (Although many more think that limited/no government and Laissez-faire capialism would). It's about the maximization of individual liberty.

Freer market =/= freer people

Less civil laws = freer people

The removal of some civil laws could conceivably result in less freedom.

[Stromburg]

Libertarian means small government with no interference in the economy and people life except for enforcing laws, foreign relation and having military.

[Tagmatium]

Freer market =/= freer people

Less civil laws = freer people

The removal of some civil laws could conceivably result in less freedom.

I'd imagine a lot thought would go into which laws were removed, if this were to take place. I doubt they'd chop out everything, especially regarding things like copy right.

[Servantium]

Libertarian means small government with no interference in the economy and people life except for enforcing laws, foreign relation and having military.

A good definition.

[Sibirsky]

To Me, a Libertarian is an Anarchist who can't make the final step to abandoning preconceptions about the "necessity" of state

Both hold the position "Statism is coercion/slavery"
However libertarians nominally hold that as a necessary evil, best when limited to it's smallest possible form
Anarchist refuse that compromise, on the grounds that A=A, and less of A is still A, and therefore not acceptable.

Libertarianism is a compromise ideology, it's the middle ground between Statism and Anarchism.

Libertarians are prude.

[Innsmothe]

Libertarian means small government with no interference in the economy and people life except for enforcing laws, foreign relation and having military.

Wrong, their are two libertarian groups.

One want's increased regulation and buisness responsibility but less government power over what should and should not be illegalised ect.

The other tends to be more traditional conservative by wanting more economic freedom, but doesn't get a shit over civil law as it includes copyright laws.

[Sibirsky]

Stable Anarchist systems, exist and have existed

This false logic that 'Anarchy=chaos' is just that, false
Believe what you will
I will never consent to be ruled by a system that does not require my consent.

Anarchy does lead to dis-unification and weakness.

With no unified defense force, you will be taken advantage of.

A state is not necessary for a unified defense force.

[Sibirsky]

Smoking a cigarette in the privacy of your own home, or better yet, smoking a joint, having a drink, then calling a hooker for some action affects you how exactly?

How do you propose to keep the cigarette smoke away from the smoker's family?

Frankly I don't care. The family has discussed the smoker's habits and decided that he is allowed to smoke in the house.

[Innsmothe]

Anarchy does lead to dis-unification and weakness.

With no unified defense force, you will be taken advantage of.

A state is not necessary for a unified defense force.

But it is for global recognition and diplomacy.

Without global recognition and support, you are sitting on what could be someone elses land.

[The Deleted Chris]

Exactly, for a lot of libertarians (including mysaelf) it's not about improving the quality of life or society (Although many more think that limited/no government and Laissez-faire capialism would). It's about the maximization of individual liberty.

Freer market =/= freer people

Less civil laws = freer people

Though I agree with the latter proposition, I disagree with the former. Although government should regulate to preclude monopoly and thereby maintain a free, competitive market, economic liberty is as important as civil or political in freeing citizens from reliance upon the state.

[Servantium]

Anarchy does lead to dis-unification and weakness.

With no unified defense force, you will be taken advantage of.

A state is not necessary for a unified defense force.

I find arguments in favor of this assertion lacking.

EDIT: Sort of.

[The Deleted Chris]

To Me, a Libertarian is an Anarchist who can't make the final step to abandoning preconceptions about the "necessity" of state

Both hold the position "Statism is coercion/slavery"
However libertarians nominally hold that as a necessary evil, best when limited to it's smallest possible form
Anarchist refuse that compromise, on the grounds that A=A, and less of A is still A, and therefore not acceptable.

Libertarianism is a compromise ideology, it's the middle ground between Statism and Anarchism.

Libertarians are prude.

Prudent? Or prudes?

[Sibirsky]

Smoking a cigarette in the privacy of your own home, or better yet, smoking a joint, having a drink, then calling a hooker for some action affects you how exactly?

well obviously the hooker is affected. plenty of people would also be affected due to the growing and sale of tobacco weed and alcohol. whether its a bad effect or not is up for debate and mostly a matter of opinion (personally i think theyre all fine as long as weed is legal and thus not controlled by criminal gangs and the hooker isnt being exploited), but its not like any of those things happen in a total vacuum

In other words none of this affects Gni.

The hooker voluntarily gave up some of her time (and some other things ) for some money. That's not exploitation. The only reason weed is controlled by criminal gangs is because regular people do not have the ability to protect this kind of property on their own, and the state does not protect it. The state is the reason for criminal gangs to be involved at all.

[South Lorenya]

How do you propose to keep the cigarette smoke away from the smoker's family?

I presume they have feet that properly function.

Unfortunately, that won't always work. If (for example) there's an open path (no door) between the living room and the kitchen and there's a smoker watching TV, you have to choose between cigarette smoke and no food.