After the failure of capitalism

[Meryuma]

Sort of, it's a mixture of capitalism and corporatism.

[Sociobiology]

there are more than two axises of political orientation fascism and communism are polar opposites but have nothing to do with conservative VS progressive which has to deal with equality. and then there's liberal vs authoritarian, guess what, you for small government that makes you a liberal conservative, most Americans are liberal but are divided on whether to be conservative or progressive.
communism and socialism differ because socialism is conservative (you get stuff based on how much you put into the system) and communism is progressive (you get stuff based on need)both are authoritarian,
fascism and capitalism differ because fascism is authoritarian and capitalism is liberal both are corporate.
not everything fall on the same line more like 3D space. It might be better to consider it corporate vs government instead of capitalism vs communism.

are you for corporate or government control of production and resources (IE the economy), which mostly boils down to who has final say, EPA or Dupont
are you for liberal control or authoritarian control , make your own decision vs do what you are told.
are you conservative or progressive. best put as anarchy vs equality, private police vs public police?

[Meryuma]

Anarchy & private police aren't "conservative", especially anarchy (which is very progressive), and socialism & communism aren't innately authoritarian. Also, there are other options besides corporate and government control. Other than that, you make good points. I'd describe myself as market-oriented, individualist, and progressive.

[Lord Tothe]

Corporatism will collapse, and anarcho-capitalism without government-enforced monopolies will prevail.

[The Southron Nation]

^^^^ Tothe, i think i like you.

at OP.... will you do me a favor and read Socialism, by Ludwig von Mises. it isn't a large book and can be finished in an afternoon. ill even buy it for you if you read it. Mises delves into the inner workings of socialism thoroughly and offers explanations that no capitalist, socialist, nor corporatist has yet been able to negate. i promise, if you are seroiusly going to take the position you do, you WANT to read Socialism.

http://www.amazon.com/Socialism-Sociolo ... 670&sr=8-1

[The Terragon Isles]

:palm:

Capitalism is far from collapsing, and Communism is not 'a good system if the failures of the past can be corrected'.

Interesting how you jump to communism as the only other possible solution. A bit close minded, aren't we?

[Sun Aut Ex]

Hahaha. How can communism replace capitalism? According to Marx, we need to fully actualise socialism before we can advance to communism. And since socialism failed...

[Lord Tothe]

^^^^ Tothe, i think i like you.

Who doesn't

at OP.... will you do me a favor and read Socialism, by Ludwig von Mises. it isn't a large book and can be finished in an afternoon. ill even buy it for you if you read it. Mises delves into the inner workings of socialism thoroughly and offers explanations that no capitalist, socialist, nor corporatist has yet been able to negate. i promise, if you are seroiusly going to take the position you do, you WANT to read Socialism.

http://www.amazon.com/Socialism-Sociolo ... 670&sr=8-1

After that, read Human Action, also by Mises. See also: For a New Liberty and Ethics of Liberty by Rothbard.

[Grave_n_idle]

It isn't? And... it isn't?

Not even close, and no.

Capitalism is always on the verge of collapse, by it's very nature. It is inherently unstable and capricious. That's actually (also) it's greatest strength, so it's nonsensical to deny it.

And how can a system with all 'it's failure corrected' not be a good thing?

[Arilando]

I would like to see a socialist country in the future, but i dont think capitalism is failing enough currently. Also i think it is better if we get a socialist society by winning elections instead of waiting until capitalism collapses.

[Sun Aut Ex]

I would like to see a socialist country in the future, but i dont think capitalism is failing enough currently. Also i think it is better if we get a socialist society by winning elections instead of waiting until capitalism collapses.

Cool, because nobody's going to vote for you.

[Arilando]

I would like to see a socialist country in the future, but i dont think capitalism is failing enough currently. Also i think it is better if we get a socialist society by winning elections instead of waiting until capitalism collapses.

Cool, because nobody's going to vote for you.

So people cannot change opinions?

[Fenrawand]

:palm:

Capitalism is far from collapsing, and Communism is not 'a good system if the failures of the past can be corrected'.

[Sibirsky]

The capitalist experiment that we have been doing in most of the western world is failing on a massive scale, it is not substainable an will at some point have to be replaced by something. This begs two question:

1. What will replace capitalism?
2. Will the current government be able to handle it, or will we see countries collapse as well?

I suspect that we will end up with some form of communism. It is a good system if the failures of the past can be corrected.

Capitalism has not failed. You have.

[Sibirsky]

I would like to see a socialist country in the future, but i dont think capitalism is failing enough currently. Also i think it is better if we get a socialist society by winning elections instead of waiting until capitalism collapses.

Because it has worked so well in the past....

[Sibirsky]

If capitalism ever failed, it was the 1930's.

This is nothing.

Wrong on the 1930s.

[Sibirsky]

:palm:

Capitalism is far from collapsing, and Communism is not 'a good system if the failures of the past can be corrected'.

It isn't? And... it isn't?

Yeah, tax credits, the CRA, Fannie and Freddie, had nothing to do with it.

[Sibirsky]

Capitalism has proven itself to not be substainable in America, poverty is on the rise, people are losing their homes, the government is doing bailouts and the feds are making money not even bothering to secure it with debt.

Europe is heading down the same path, with capitalism failing in nation after nation.

Ironically, the reason poverty is on the rise is the government's socialist experiment in housing.

[Arilando]

I would like to see a socialist country in the future, but i dont think capitalism is failing enough currently. Also i think it is better if we get a socialist society by winning elections instead of waiting until capitalism collapses.

Because it has worked so well in the past....

Your wrong, there has never been a socialist country. In order for a country to be socialist, it has to be democratic.

[Fennosvezia]

It seems to me that you see world only under capitalism or communism. There are more neutral solutions. For example in Scandinavia; great welfare and good health care. There are only little beggars, and the few aren't usually the citizens of that nation.

[Andorianus]

"After the failure of capitalism", that would make a nice RP.

Relax, lad. Capitalism hasn't failed yet. A capitalist society is still workable.

I must admit, the idea of having products as good as possible, by putting companies against eachother, isn't the most efficient way to run a society and is not the most beneficial to the people. But since there isn't a very good alternative, I'll deal with it.

[Sibirsky]

Living with a bunch of other humans with no government conflict resolution, no guaranteed common form of exchange, little to no possibility of the adoption of large-scale projects...?

The problems with e.g. the Sovietunion are easily fixed, the key issues was:
-Corruption
-Idolizing of leaders
-Abuse of power
-Lack of incentives at the individual worker level.

The problems with capitalism are not that easy to fix.

Corruption is the only way those at the top get anything "nice" that capitalist societies produce. Because anything made locally is garbage. Because there is no competition. It's also how they accumulate wealth to pay for those things. Not only is it impossible to address, it's more prevalent and common in socialist economies.

Idolizing of leaders is the law, rather than a natural process. People don't wake up one day and randomly say "I love Lenin!". People are surrounded by propaganda posters, music, tv and so on that all tell them how great their leaders are. When I was a young student in the Soviet Union, every textbook started with this...

It's indoctrination. Without people start getting ideas. Like, I dunno how about we start a business?
Abuse of power is corruption. And again, you must also instill fear, so nobody get out of line.
And how the fuck are you going to create incentives with no profit motive, no chance of ever working for yourself, no chance of anything that would amount to success in the business world?

[Andorianus]

It seems to me that you see world only under capitalism or communism. There are more neutral solutions. For example in Scandinavia; great welfare and good health care. There are only little beggars, and the few aren't usually the citizens of that nation.

Scandinavia is nice :-) My nation is based of Sweden.

[Sibirsky]

Because it has worked so well in the past....

Your wrong, there has never been a socialist country. In order for a country to be socialist, it has to be democratic.

Nope. Socialism is state ownership of the means of production. Has happened on a wide scale and failed miserably.

[Bendira]

More like the failure of government than anything else. Any economic system will eventually "fail" because of government intervention.