The Republicans are out to destroy the country

[Free Soviets]

I care, I think they should have to read a bill in its entirety on the floor before a vote can be held.

why? doing so doesn't tell you what the bill actually does. have you ever read a bill?

[Ashmoria]

Except federal legislation affects the nation, not just their "local area."

But this is a great idea because this way, at least with domestic legislation, national politics will be less partisan. The Republicans wouldn't care about Obamacare nearly as much cuz it probably wouldn't affect their states. In this way legislation will be voted on more for its merit.

thats not the way this ammendment would work.

it would not give individual states the right to ignore federal legislation. it would only give them the right to veto it if they could get 2/3rds of the states to agree. everyone or no one.

[Free Soviets]

in any sufficiently large population, there are bound to be people who care about all sorts of random bullshit. but they do not determine the outcomes of elections, except by accident.

Sigh, it is getting tedious ....from nobody, to statistically insignificant, now an accident. What next divine intervention? Your point being nobody?Albeit it is not the overriding factors in the midterms but there are some who does care and it is a far cry from your nobody.

its not a factor at all. not even for you. you would never vote for a democrat because the republican in a senate race admitted to only having read executive summaries of a bill. or if you would, you are so hopelessly lost that no politician will even bother pandering to you.

[Ashmoria]

I care, I think they should have to read a bill in its entirety on the floor before a vote can be held.

why? doing so doesn't tell you what the bill actually does. have you ever read a bill?

and has he ever seen it done? oral speed reading does nothing for comprehension.

[Free Soviets]

and if 2/3s of the local areas feel a bill should be repealed, then why not.

because not all local areas are equal. fuck wyoming.

[Free Soviets]

and has he ever seen it done? oral speed reading does nothing for comprehension.

yeah, seriously. i can't tell if he's just being disingenuous and knows the whole thing is yet another republican stalling tactic, or if he's just honestly confused about legislating.

[Ashmoria]

But of course you know better!

Actually I am still as confused on healthcare as when it passed. What was Pelosi take on that? We need to pass it to find out....

if you had read up on it you would not be confused at all. leaving yourself ignorant is not a good way to understand legislation.

[Texas Secessionists]

I care, I think they should have to read a bill in its entirety on the floor before a vote can be held.

why? doing so doesn't tell you what the bill actually does. have you ever read a bill?

1: It would slow down the process and make it harder to push stuff through.
2: It might actually result in shorter, more easily understood bills (who would want to stand there and read a 3000 page bill?)
3: It would keep them from sneaking in silly crap like research grants to study the affects of cocaine on monkeys.

[Ashmoria]

even if that's true, its statistically insignificant. we know the determinants of elections. demographics and economics are the big ones. not being absolutely insane comes next.

From nobody to statistically insignificant are we now. Tell that to Russ Feingold

you voted russ out because you think he didnt know what he was voting for?

i find that very hard to believe. and if that is what you did you were very much mistaken. mr feingold knew full well what he voted for and why.

[United Dependencies]

why? doing so doesn't tell you what the bill actually does. have you ever read a bill?

and has he ever seen it done? oral speed reading does nothing for comprehension.

Nor would most politicians even pay attention.

[Jinestahn]

STATES RIGHTS!

[Free Soviets]

Actually I am still as confused on healthcare as when it passed. What was Pelosi take on that? We need to pass it to find out....

what she was saying was that large sections of the public are always going to remain ignorant about policy arguments. asking them about anything other than broad outlines, especially in the middle of a partisan fight where one side is blatantly lying about everything, just tells you how confused they are. but when something is actually in place, then they will get to know what it actually does.

[Free Soviets]

and has he ever seen it done? oral speed reading does nothing for comprehension.

Nor would most politicians even pay attention.

hell, they wouldn't even be there. they have more important shit to do.

[United Dependencies]

STATES RIGHTS!

UNEXPLAINED STATEMENTS/OPINIONS!

[Jinestahn]

STATES RIGHTS!

UNEXPLAINED STATEMENTS/OPINIONS!

NARK

[Sierra Lobo]

Sigh, it is getting tedious ....from nobody, to statistically insignificant, now an accident. What next divine intervention? Your point being nobody?Albeit it is not the overriding factors in the midterms but there are some who does care and it is a far cry from your nobody.

its not a factor at all. not even for you. you would never vote for a democrat because the republican in a senate race admitted to only having read executive summaries of a bill. or if you would, you are so hopelessly lost that no politician will even bother pandering to you.

Now your trying to put words in my mouth. It is disingenuous of you that reading the bill is the only criteria I cared about. It was you who stated that 'nobody cared' .... I disabuse of you of that notion and you started setting the bar from nobody, to statistically insignificant, then an accident. Now your trying to warp it that all I cared about is the reading of the bill.

[Texas Secessionists]

Actually I am still as confused on healthcare as when it passed. What was Pelosi take on that? We need to pass it to find out....

what she was saying was that large sections of the public are always going to remain ignorant about policy arguments. asking them about anything other than broad outlines, especially in the middle of a partisan fight where one side is blatantly lying about everything, just tells you how confused they are. but when something is actually in place, then they will get to know what it actually does.

And so far we've seen that Obamacare has raised our insurance premiums and that several large employers may have to drop coverage.

[Sierra Lobo]

From nobody to statistically insignificant are we now. Tell that to Russ Feingold

you voted russ out because you think he didnt know what he was voting for?

i find that very hard to believe. and if that is what you did you were very much mistaken. mr feingold knew full well what he voted for and why.

Feingold lost on healthcare.

[Arcad]

I really think this nation went wrong at the beginning, with one thing that was included in the Constitution: the provision for slavery. Shoulda picked our own cotton; it would have made the US perfect. Just my opinon. You can't found a nation on that and expect to remove it and have that nation live eternally; it'll topple eventually.

End of the world in 2012 anyway, though...

[Sierra Lobo]

why? doing so doesn't tell you what the bill actually does. have you ever read a bill?

and has he ever seen it done? oral speed reading does nothing for comprehension.

Not reading it wont even start comprehension ..... Do you comprehend a text you dont read?

[Socialist Usonia]

I actually really like this idea. Go Republicans. Of course it's just a publicity stunt to make themselves look more pro-democracy, but still.

[Arcad]

what she was saying was that large sections of the public are always going to remain ignorant about policy arguments. asking them about anything other than broad outlines, especially in the middle of a partisan fight where one side is blatantly lying about everything, just tells you how confused they are. but when something is actually in place, then they will get to know what it actually does.

And so far we've seen that Obamacare has raised our insurance premiums and that several large employers may have to drop coverage.

*gives you a victory cookie*

[Terraius]

How dare they try to take power away from the state. Anti-authoritarians have no place in this county.

[Free Soviets]

1: It would slow down the process and make it harder to push stuff through.
2: It might actually result in shorter, more easily understood bills (who would want to stand there and read a 3000 page bill?)
3: It would keep them from sneaking in silly crap like research grants to study the affects of cocaine on monkeys.

1. yes, because the big problem we have right now is that governance is just too damned efficient. this explain how 2 years on, the executive and judicial branches are fully staffed up after having the nominees sail through the senate...
2. no, it wouldn't. bills are written the way they are because it is a requirement of writing rules for a complex society with a large body of established law. how is your short, easy to understand law actually going to be added to the existing laws? in what specific ways does it apply? what specific old rules does it modify?
3. no, it wouldn't. in so far as legitimately silly crap is put in, it is put in mainly for purposes of vote gathering to pass something else. you see, everybody has various issues they care about deeply that nobody else gives a shit about. sometimes you need to convince people to come on board with something they don't really like all that much, and an easy way is to compromise by giving them something in return. such is politics in a system that gives large amounts of say to individual politicians. remove that option and all you'll get is even shittier bills.

[United Dependencies]

and has he ever seen it done? oral speed reading does nothing for comprehension.

Not reading it wont even start comprehension ..... Do you comprehend a text you dont read?

Have you heard how the clerks read a bill?