Legal Right to die

[UCUMAY]

Great arguement it makes a lot of sense....

That actually was the law in quite a few countries for quite a while.

And it even makes sense from a Christian perspective. Suiciders go to hell. People that were sentenced to death not necessarily.

Organized religion makes no sense except for the cultural bonding.... but that needs to be a different thread. Religious arguements aside. I personally see no other reason why sucicide, euthanasia, ect. shouldn't be allow if said individual goes through a process and is found that:
1st they will be/are/have been a net drain on society
2nd There are no reasonable/good options to make their lives better, make the quality of life better, or simply have made the informed choice to check out.
3rd Are aware death is premament, and if they check out for the 2nd one their situation is not temporary.
So they are good to go. The only arguements I have seen against it have been the friends/family/don't believe in it/don't leave me arguement. These in my opinion are selfish. On the other hand committing sucicide for temporary problems is cowardly. But people should be the allowed the choice nevertheless.

[Galloism]

Why does wishing to die automatically imply insanity?

How does one know that the depression is not temporary? Will dumped middle school girls be lining themselves up in front of clinics of death? Will a man fired from his job, in a moment of unclear thinking, be terminated by the state with all blessing? My gosh, I never could imagine a world where we accept suicide or at least look at it as any other thing but negative.

In cases of terminal or chronic illness, it's a no-brainer to me: of COURSE everyone should have the right to end their own suffering.

In cases of depression or mental illness, it gets more murky for me. For instance, during a particularly bad bout of drug abuse, I became (briefly) suicidal. I'm very glad that I didn't die. I'm glad my friends prevented me from acting on my suicidal impulses. I know other people who have been suicidal and later were glad that they did not succeed in killing themselves.

But I also have known people who were so determined to die that they continued attempting suicide for (in one case) 10 years. I have known people who genuinely did not experience happiness...the best they got was "not actively trying to kill myself this minute." That kind of pain is every bit as real as any other sort of pain. Their suffering isn't any less real or valid because it's mental. All pain is in the brain, as they say, so what does it matter if the painful stimulus is physical or mental?

This bears pointing out as well. Mental pain is every bit as real as physical. Why do we view it so different?

Most of us wouldn't let anyone commit suicide over a stubbed toe, but we might sympathize if they are in intense incurable chronic pain.

Similarly, we wouldn't want someone to commit suicide over a breakup, but what about intense incurable long-lasting depression?

How is that different?

I'll just leave this here. I think it answers your questions nicely.

[UCUMAY]

I'll just leave this here. I think it answers your questions nicely.

I meant through legal rather than 'normal' sucicide. I was talking about euthanasia because there's no way to put the others through law.

P.S. I have gone through mental issues. I know the pain is opressive, real, and un-ending.

[Galloism]

I'll just leave this here. I think it answers your questions nicely.

I meant through legal rather than 'normal' sucicide. I was talking about euthanasia because there's no way to put the others through law.

P.S. I have gone through mental issues. I know the pain is opressive, real, and un-ending.

Actually, I was answering mike.

Your position is ok, but i wonder why the net drain on society matters. Do you not think that a person has the right to do what he wishes to his body without interference from society?

[UCUMAY]

I meant through legal rather than 'normal' sucicide. I was talking about euthanasia because there's no way to put the others through law.

P.S. I have gone through mental issues. I know the pain is opressive, real, and un-ending.

Actually, I was answering mike.

Your position is ok, but i wonder why the net drain on society matters. Do you not think that a person has the right to do what he wishes to his body without interference from society?

I agree but to have the laws put in to assist in the first place. There will have to be stipulations. Otherwise they won't get passed. That's is just this country (good ole USA).

[Nobel Hobos]

Here is my helpful suggestion:

A suicide lottery. Entrants would pledge some amount of money (which they can pay) and like a normal lottery the more they pledge the more tickets they have in the draw. A random draw is made with all tickets equally likely to win, like a normal lottery. The 'winner' gets to die (in a painless and dignified way of course), and the money they have pledged is distributed among the other entrants in proportion to what each of them has pledged.

Every person entering the lottery gets a payout. The lucky winner gets to die (painlessly and with dignity). Everyone else gets the satisfaction of knowing they helped someone make the decision they couldn't make for themselves. Plus! They get a share of the money which the winner pledged. No-one has to pay a cent, unless they win. And if they win, they get what they want and the money doesn't matter any more.

Did I divide by zero somewhere in that calculation? It seems too good to be true ...

[Nobel Hobos]

Yes, we all have the right to die.

It might seem trivial, because there are so many ways to kill yourself and no consequences which can be applied if you do, but the legal right matters in at least two ways:

If it is illegal to commit suicide, then it is illegal to assist suicide: this legally endangers anyone who assists a person without physical means to commit suicide in exercising their right to it. That deprives the suicidal person of their rights. There are a tiny minority of people who are profoundly physically disabled, yet mentally competent, who wish to die ... but however few they are, they deserve the right which others have. In addition, there are people who suffer from degenerative diseases, are mentally competent and wish to remain alive, but can clearly foresee a future in which they would rather be dead. These people should be permitted to set limits on their life while they are still competent to do so, live on, and then have their earlier competent will enforced when they no longer have the means to enforce it or to claim it. A living will, properly attested, should be enforced. Preventing its enforcement is to deny that person's will in this most personal matter, to live or die.

Depriving a suicidal person of their right to a painless and dignified death (which we would aim for with any other kind of death) forces them 'underground', beneath the law and other social interventions. In many cases of suicide, there are options which the suicidal person is simply not aware of, which could be presented to them in the course of counselling conducted by qualified mental health professionals. These professionals are constrained by law from ever approving suicide as the person's choice, and so are prevented from serving the interests of their patient. The patient should always come first, and legal interference in the work of those who would inform their choice, obstructs their abiltiy to make an informed choice in this most personal matter, their decision to live or die.

[Eireann Fae]

Here is my helpful suggestion:

A suicide lottery. Entrants would pledge some amount of money (which they can pay) and like a normal lottery the more they pledge the more tickets they have in the draw. A random draw is made with all tickets equally likely to win, like a normal lottery. The 'winner' gets to die (in a painless and dignified way of course), and the money they have pledged is distributed among the other entrants in proportion to what each of them has pledged.

Every person entering the lottery gets a payout. The lucky winner gets to die (painlessly and with dignity). Everyone else gets the satisfaction of knowing they helped someone make the decision they couldn't make for themselves. Plus! They get a share of the money which the winner pledged. No-one has to pay a cent, unless they win. And if they win, they get what they want and the money doesn't matter any more.

Did I divide by zero somewhere in that calculation? It seems too good to be true ...

I'd be down for that :D

[Nobel Hobos]

Here is my helpful suggestion:

A suicide lottery. Entrants would pledge some amount of money (which they can pay) and like a normal lottery the more they pledge the more tickets they have in the draw. A random draw is made with all tickets equally likely to win, like a normal lottery. The 'winner' gets to die (in a painless and dignified way of course), and the money they have pledged is distributed among the other entrants in proportion to what each of them has pledged.

Every person entering the lottery gets a payout. The lucky winner gets to die (painlessly and with dignity). Everyone else gets the satisfaction of knowing they helped someone make the decision they couldn't make for themselves. Plus! They get a share of the money which the winner pledged. No-one has to pay a cent, unless they win. And if they win, they get what they want and the money doesn't matter any more.

Did I divide by zero somewhere in that calculation? It seems too good to be true ...

I'd be down for that

Good, good ... I still haven't worked out how I get rich or die by organizing this lottery, but if it helps people out I guess I've done good.

[Augarundus]

So long as it is made known that it is consensual, I have no problem with euthanasia or assisted suicide, at least legally. The only problem would be if a physician or family member chooses for someone... murder...