Legal Right to die

[Galloism]

Wait-

Are you suggesting that, if you have a cold, which currently isn't curable, you should be subjected to medical experimentation against your will because "you're not yourself"?

Seriously?

Not in that situation. But should you be subjected to a medical experimentation because you said yes when you have a severe head trauma?

No, I would say that, to voluntarily subject onesself to medical experimentation, one would have to be of sound mind or dead.

However, you are the one suggesting that cancer patients and people with AIDS or a cold should be subjected to medical experimentation against their will, because they're not themselves, and the doctor might find a cure.

[Eireann Fae]

Ok since people wants it this way, I will change my opinion effective immediately:

-Doctors don't have the right to cure anyone without their consent first. Nevermind that you need their help, you have to say yes to be cured first.
-You, however, a non-medical professional can cure yourself in any way you want. Including euthanasia.

There, now you all could sleep peacefully.

So if your trauma causes you to lose consciousness or lapse into a coma, you're fucked? Man am I glad you're not my doctor...

[Norstal]

Ok since people wants it this way, I will change my opinion effective immediately:

-Doctors don't have the right to cure anyone without their consent first. Nevermind that you need their help, you have to say yes to be cured first.
-You, however, a non-medical professional can cure yourself in any way you want. Including euthanasia.

There, now you all could sleep peacefully.

So if your trauma causes you to lose consciousness or lapse into a coma, you're fucked? Man am I glad you're not my doctor...

Isn't this what you people advocate? That you should have choice no matter what?

Not in that situation. But should you be subjected to a medical experimentation because you said yes when you have a severe head trauma?

No, I would say that, to voluntarily subject onesself to medical experimentation, one would have to be of sound mind or dead.

However, you are the one suggesting that cancer patients and people with AIDS or a cold should be subjected to medical experimentation against their will, because they're not themselves, and the doctor might find a cure.

Finally we're getting somewhere. Fine, I'll rescind my statement about AIDS and cancer and such. Instead I will then ask,

Do people with depression have sound mind? That you should kill them because they want to be dead?

[Galloism]

Ok since people wants it this way, I will change my opinion effective immediately:

-Doctors don't have the right to cure anyone without their consent first. Nevermind that you need their help, you have to say yes to be cured first.

Better. This is mostly how it is, except in cases of unconsciousness and severe mental incapacity. In such cases, usually a close relative steps in and gives consent in leiu of the patient. If, however, the patient regains consciousness at any point, and is cognizant of his situation, control returns to him, and he can stop his treatment at any time.

As it should be.

You, however, a non-medical professional can cure yourself in any way you want. Including euthanasia.

There, now you all could sleep peacefully.

Why should a doctor be prohibited from helping his patient by law?

This is the part I don't understand.

[Galloism]

No, I would say that, to voluntarily subject onesself to medical experimentation, one would have to be of sound mind or dead.

However, you are the one suggesting that cancer patients and people with AIDS or a cold should be subjected to medical experimentation against their will, because they're not themselves, and the doctor might find a cure.

Finally we're getting somewhere. Fine, I'll rescind my statement about AIDS and cancer and such. Instead I will then ask,

Do people with depression have sound mind? That you should kill them because they want to be dead?

Depends on the level of depression. Some have a mind medically sound enough to make that decision, and some think they are Elvis and were commanded by the gods to wear a banana on their person at all times.

[Fartsniffage]

Depends on the level of depression. Some have a mind medically sound enough to make that decision, and some think they are Elvis and were commanded by the gods to wear a banana on their person at all times.

You would deny a man the right to wear a banana?

Del Monte would be shocked.

[Norstal]

Finally we're getting somewhere. Fine, I'll rescind my statement about AIDS and cancer and such. Instead I will then ask,

Do people with depression have sound mind? That you should kill them because they want to be dead?

Depends on the level of depression. Some have a mind medically sound enough to make that decision, and some think they are Elvis and were commanded by the gods to wear a banana on their person at all times.

So wanting to be dead is normal coming out of a depressed person.

There's something really wrong with this. Depression is not normal in any circumstances. Unhappiness is normal. But even if some form of depression is normal and others are not, doesn't mean we should kill them. We don't know if its a disease or not. After all, mood changes are determined by chemicals.

Its the same with treatment-resistant depression. Its a disorder. We don't know if they're making a rational decision or not.

[Theodstan]

Wasn't it ironic, that Harold Shipman committed suicide?

[Galloism]

So wanting to be dead is normal coming out of a depressed person.

If I were suffering horribly every day, I'd tried everything, and there was no cure or even relief, I'd say wanting to die is probably not irrational.

Judicious argument fixing below:

There's something really wrong with this. Cancer is not normal in any circumstances. A mutated cell is normal. But even if some form of mutated cells are normal and others are not, doesn't mean we should kill them. We don't know if its a disease or not. After all, illnesses are determined by individual organisms.

Its the same with treatment-resistant cancer. Its a disorder. We don't know if they're making a rational decision or not.

All fixed up (to the best of my ability). Still agree?

[Norstal]

So wanting to be dead is normal coming out of a depressed person.

If I were suffering horribly every day, I'd tried everything, and there was no cure or even relief, I'd say wanting to die is probably not irrational.

Judicious argument fixing below:

There's something really wrong with this. Cancer is not normal in any circumstances. A mutated cell is normal. But even if some form of mutated cells are normal and others are not, doesn't mean we should kill them. We don't know if its a disease or not. After all, illnesses are determined by individual organisms.

Its the same with treatment-resistant cancer. Its a disorder. We don't know if they're making a rational decision or not.

All fixed up (to the best of my ability). Still agree?

Oic, an MD like you should've told me first hand that all cancer is a disease of the mind.

[Galloism]

If I were suffering horribly every day, I'd tried everything, and there was no cure or even relief, I'd say wanting to die is probably not irrational.

Judicious argument fixing below:



All fixed up (to the best of my ability). Still agree?

Oic, an MD like you should've told me first hand that all cancer is a disease of the mind.

It's not, but I don't see what the difference is, as I was talking with bottle before.

Cancer is painful, and, in some cases, incurable. In those cases, people will writhe in pain until they die.

Depression is painful, and, in some cases, incurable. In those cases, the person will writhe in pain until they die.

What's the difference?

[Fartsniffage]

Wasn't it ironic, that Harold Shipman committed suicide?

I what way was that ironic?

[Khyrta]

I think that if you're like in really bad condition health wise, then yah. Ya should be allowed to not exist anymore

[JJ Place]

Of course; you don't have much of a choice in beginning your life, so your right to end your life is even further supported, and all individual's rights to end their respective lives needs to be fully respected.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Wasn't it ironic, that Harold Shipman committed suicide?

I what way was that ironic?

Shhh don't argue with Alanis Morrisette

[UCUMAY]

So it's boiling down to the individual's right to decide over their own body, the medical profession's discomfort, and it shouldn't be allowed because it could be abused...

I have been on both sides of the mental health issue. I understand we have impact on others. But I see nothing in this thread that convices me it's right to force a human being to stay alive, when all they wanna do is die. It is selfish to commit sucide, but then again it's selfish keeping them here. I suggest fore-thought either way.

[Urcea]

There is no "right to die", in America anyway, and it should remain like that; suicide is generally deplorable anyway.

[Faith Hope Charity]

The government has no higher claim to my life then i do, therefore it has no say if i want to end it. I own my life, no one else has any other right to it.

[UCUMAY]

There is no "right to die", in America anyway, and it should remain like that; suicide is generally deplorable anyway.

I know there is no "right to die" in the states. I live in USA. Deplorable is an opinion (your opinion). Please present something with fact like the aftermath when someone invokes the right to die.

[Servantium]

Absolutely, if I ask someone to kill me they should be allowed to do it and if I want to kill myself that should also be allowed (which it pretty much is). Period.

[UCUMAY]

The government has no higher claim to my life then i do, therefore it has no say if i want to end it. I own my life, no one else has any other right to it.

I second this.

[Urcea]

There is no "right to die", in America anyway, and it should remain like that; suicide is generally deplorable anyway.

I know the is no "right to die" in the states. I live in USA. Deplorable is an opinion (your opinion). Please present something with fact like the aftermath when someone invokes the right to die.

So you're going to argue suicide is a positive?

[Syzemia]

edits* well not exactly

[Eireann Fae]

I know the is no "right to die" in the states. I live in USA. Deplorable is an opinion (your opinion). Please present something with fact like the aftermath when someone invokes the right to die.

So you're going to argue suicide is a positive?

It doesn't have to be negative.

[Urcea]

So you're going to argue suicide is a positive?

It doesn't have to be negative.

Suicide is always negative.