Can atheists go to Heaven?

[Geniasis]

Maybe another example, teaching a caveman who just discovered fire, all about nuclear energy.
He couldn't begin to wrap his head around the science necessary to even understand the basic terms.
The best you can tell him is "Extra fire"

He probably could, if he put in years and years of scientific study starting from the ground up (assuming he's already an adult by the time you find him, he'd have a harder time).

But you could probably still get the basic idea with the handy use of metaphor/simile. Major fucking props to the guy that invented those.

[Multasibi]

wait, personal attacks? where have I attacked you personally? If you feel offended a section of my post, please highlight it so that I can re-iterate my point in a less offensive wording.

but anyways

1. Why?

2. For how, well chemical signals within our brain form the lowest level of 'thought', mainly emotions like anger, fear, joy, ect, then electrical impulses between neurons within the brain (although the nervous system as a whole does play a role) form 'higher' thought. As for why, well we don't know for certain, but we can see all around us it's benefits so why would it not just be one of those advantagous traits which rose to the fore during the process of human evolution?

3. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, although possibly in a different thread to perserve on-topicness, as I personally would love to have faith in some god. I don't, but it'd be nice to be reasoned into it if you please

Oh, and the offending part would be "god dunnit" and "git kwiet." I am well educated in grammar and just about anything else. Also, I am working on becoming a marine biologist and getting a Ph.d in thhat field.

I apologise for the offense, I was merely attempting some poor humour, although not specifically targeted at you but at the stereotypical believer of the bible belt.

good luck on your Ph.d and the other thread is up here

[Tyr-risuur]

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

Make this as clear as I can one more time
The Question
Can Atheists go to Heaven
In order to form an answer to this pure hypothetical, you must start with the assumption (regardless of how ridiculus you find it) that Heaven exist, because this is place our group of discussion may or may not be going to.

The "well, it's not really real" isn't what this debate is about.

I had said fair enough but you know what? That's BS. Hypoyhetically? Fine. Are we talking Chistian Heaven here? Which form of Christianity are we assuming is true? One which would allow atheist into Heaven or one that wouldn't? We have to hypothetically assume one is true or we'd have to argue about which one actually is true which opens up questions as to whether any are true at all.

"Which one (form of Christianity) is 'true'?" Question halfway answered.

Sometimes hypothetical questions require a dose of reality. This is one of those.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Make this as clear as I can one more time
The Question
Can Atheists go to Heaven
In order to form an answer to this pure hypothetical, you must start with the assumption (regardless of how ridiculus you find it) that Heaven exist, because this is place our group of discussion may or may not be going to.

The "well, it's not really real" isn't what this debate is about.

I had said fair enough but you know what? That's BS. Hypoyhetically? Fine. Are we talking Chistian Heaven here? Which form of Christianity are we assuming is true? One which would allow atheist into Heaven or one that wouldn't? We have to hypothetically assume one is true or we'd have to argue about which one actually is true which opens up questions as to whether any are true at all.

"Which one (form of Christianity) is 'true'?" Question halfway answered.

Sometimes hypothetical questions require a dose of reality. This is one of those.

[Brogavia]

Can Christians go to Candyland?

[Geniasis]

Can Christians go to Candyland?

Yeah, but we can't go on the Gum drop mountain.

[Austin Setzer]

but we do get jelly bean cavern XD

[Tyr-risuur]

but we do get jelly bean cavern XD

We took pity on you... besides no one cares for jelly bean cavern.

[Grave_n_idle]

The fruit of Knowledge gives the godlike knowledge from just one taste, which rather suggests that the Tree of Life has similar properties. As the scripture says, mankind only had to reach out his hand, take the fruit and eat - that's a fait accompli. It doesn't say that immortality requires you to continue eating.

But, as you say, if eating the fruit provides immortality - even if you did have to keep eating it - then the 'surely die' situation seems shaky.

I keep telling you.
It doesn't matter if they could have eaten of the Tree of Life.
God KNEW they wouldn't, therefore he SURE.
Thus, SUREly.

And, again, your argument relies on the assumption that "a must be true because a must be true".

[Grave_n_idle]

You make my point precisely, General. Heaven is hypothetical.

As is most of science and atheistic theories.

Atheistic theories? Like... not believing in god is a theory in it's own right?

[Mad hatters in jeans]

i think they'd be mightily miffed if they could.

[Grave_n_idle]

I'm sure you can back that up with scripture.

Sure, a lot of churches teach it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's in the bible.

I distinctly remember a part were Jesus said the only way into heaven was through him, so I assume he means that only Christians in heaven, everyone else in Hell, no matter the circumstances.

Even if you accept that translation, Christian theology suggests that what Jesus added to the situation was a perfect sacrifice - which would serve the same purpose as either the scape-goat or the Passover lamb. Once the sacrifice is made, sins can be transferred (or hidden) 'through' the sacrifice - even without belief.

[New high charity 24]

NO! he made the people, and let them live their lives....even if they were evil they WILL pay for it in the afterlife....and life IS a test....whoever wants to take the easy way out is always the one who fails....

Works for me.

Satan sounds like a downright nice guy.

^ this.

[SaintB]

If god is some benevolent all loving entity than pretty much everyone goes to heaven.

So I guess the real question is Old Testament or new?

[Gagatron]

in the bible it says god created us in the form of him so hes like the dad...if we dont respect the dad and we are very good people would the dad say "ok whatevs"? NO hed say you BETTER respect me and STILL be a good person or your in trouble

The Bible also says that God lied to humans a couple times. Kinda sheds its credibility into doubt, doesn't it?

Tell me one verse, ONE, that says God has lied to humans. And don't give me any crap from the "Message". I want to see something from the King James Version.

[Arilando]

No, because heaven does not exist.

[Gagatron]

I keep telling you.
It doesn't matter if they could have eaten of the Tree of Life.
God KNEW they wouldn't, therefore he SURE.
Thus, SUREly.

And, again, your argument relies on the assumption that "a must be true because a must be true".

No it doesn't.
I know for a fact that they died just like God said they would.
So God wasn't lying.

[Geniasis]

Even if you accept that translation, Christian theology suggests that what Jesus added to the situation was a perfect sacrifice - which would serve the same purpose as either the scape-goat or the Passover lamb. Once the sacrifice is made, sins can be transferred (or hidden) 'through' the sacrifice - even without belief.

Which... is actually an interpretation of that verse held by a number of churches.

[The Corparation]

Works for me.

Satan sounds like a downright nice guy.

^ this.

The number for the guy on the top is way too low.

[Genivar]

Remember this theists, Reason flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings.

[Geniasis]

Remember this theists, Reason flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings.

Really? It's certainly never tempted me to mass-murder.

[Poorisolation]

Remember this theists, Reason flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings.

Really? It's certainly never tempted me to mass-murder.

Like a number of people he has confused Militant Fundamentalism with religion.

[Ashmoria]

Really? It's certainly never tempted me to mass-murder.

Like a number of people he has confused Militant Fundamentalism with religion.

now wait a minute

are you trying to claim that militant fundamentalists ARENT religious?

[Diseased Imaginings]

it depends upon which style of christianity you adhere to. According to many protestant sects, faith in Jesus is the only thing that's important. No faith, no heaven. I was raised Catholic, and according to them, faith isn't as important as good conduct. Even if you're faithful, if you die with mortal sin, you go to hell. If you don't believe in God or Jesus, and you live an upright life, or give your life up for somebody else, you go to heaven regardless of what you believe.

not that I believe any of that stuff anymore

[Yenke-Bin]

If they repent of their sins, get baptized in Christ and place their faith in Him, then yes they could. Outside of this, there is no other way.