Can atheists go to Heaven?

[Mosasauria]

Oh my God atheists do go to hell!!!

No, that's in Michigan.

*shivers*
EVEN WORSE

[Multasibi]

Right, even counting the last one, how would these comprise "most"?
(Not even going into that evolution has indeed been proven.)

And I never said you did. However, what you have said is:

And Farnhamia was incorrect in criticizing only your slander of the word "theory".

I like to play devil's advocate quite a bit
1. How come so many gaps in the fossil record(remember, I do believe in evolution)
2. Those are some of the more popular theories
3.Devil's advocate.

1. because the conditions for creating fossils are not perfect everywhere all the time. There are gaps in the fossil record because the world isn't a massive sedimentary bog.

2. actually they''re just the ones most popularised by the media. They're popularised because they're exciting because in most cases we're very close proving them, although in the case of evolution there is so much proof that to disprove evolution you would have to find a perfect alternate explanation and even then it would need some astonishing new proof. There is literally no doubt that evolution takes place, the debate now is only on specific details, like how mutation works or how some viral and parasitic proteins effect DNA.

3. so what alternate explanation is there? and by explanation I mean factual hypothesis, not "god dunnit"

[Seperate Vermont]

Would a perfect god judge on faith in only himself or good-naturedness?

Does perfection include egocentricism, I would say, is the ultimate question.

[Tyr-risuur]

One final point:
This thread asks if atheists go to heaven, which I responded yes too. Anybody can go to heaven, so long as they are a good, kind person, and if they have/follow good morals.
This thread is not really meant to debate whether there is a God or not, or if there even is a heaven.

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

[Mosasauria]

I like to play devil's advocate quite a bit
1. How come so many gaps in the fossil record(remember, I do believe in evolution)
2. Those are some of the more popular theories
3.Devil's advocate.

1. because the conditions for creating fossils are not perfect everywhere all the time. There are gaps in the fossil record because the world isn't a massive sedimentary bog.

2. actually they''re just the ones most popularised by the media. They're popularised because they're exciting because in most cases we're very close proving them, although in the case of evolution there is so much proof that to disprove evolution you would have to find a perfect alternate explanation and even then it would need some astonishing new proof. There is literally no doubt that evolution takes place, the debate now is only on specific details, like how mutation works or how some viral and parasitic proteins effect DNA.

3. so what alternate explanation is there? and by explanation I mean factual hypothesis, not "god dunnit"

1. I know that, I was trying to make a point that has been tired out by many people
2. Explain how and why humanity has thought
3. God did it(my personal thought for this is waaaaaaaaayyy too long so I'll skip the details , unless you want them. Also, please stop with the personal attacks. I am not some WASP Bible-Belt Christian. I am a deist. )

[Laerod]

One final point:
This thread asks if atheists go to heaven, which I responded yes too. Anybody can go to heaven, so long as they are a good, kind person, and if they have/follow good morals.
This thread is not really meant to debate whether there is a God or not, or if there even is a heaven.

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

For the sake of argument, we're assuming it does. That's how.

[Mosasauria]

One final point:
This thread asks if atheists go to heaven, which I responded yes too. Anybody can go to heaven, so long as they are a good, kind person, and if they have/follow good morals.
This thread is not really meant to debate whether there is a God or not, or if there even is a heaven.

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

Is that what the forum is asking?
And besides, for all we know, Confucianists could be right. Or mybe Jingoists. Or Islamic Extremists. Or Extraterrestrial originists.

[Tyr-risuur]

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

For the sake of argument, we're assuming it does. That's how.

Fair enough. We could discuss whether that's valid but fair enough.

[Mosasauria]

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

For the sake of argument, we're assuming it does. That's how.

Exactly!

[GeneralHaNor]

One final point:
This thread asks if atheists go to heaven, which I responded yes too. Anybody can go to heaven, so long as they are a good, kind person, and if they have/follow good morals.
This thread is not really meant to debate whether there is a God or not, or if there even is a heaven.

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

Make this as clear as I can one more time
The Question
Can Atheists go to Heaven
In order to form an answer to this pure hypothetical, you must start with the assumption (regardless of how ridiculus you find it) that Heaven exist, because this is place our group of discussion may or may not be going to.

The "well, it's not really real" isn't what this debate is about.

[Mosasauria]

When he died, did God completely ignore evrything good Gandhi did, and focus on him being Hindu?

I'm amused by the notion that there is an answer to this question.

I've been wondering that myself.

[Austin Setzer]

Would a perfect god judge on faith in only himself or good-naturedness?

Does perfection include egocentricism, I would say, is the ultimate question.

in the bible it says god created us in the form of him so hes like the dad...if we dont respect the dad and we are very good people would the dad say "ok whatevs"? NO hed say you BETTER respect me and STILL be a good person or your in trouble

[GeneralHaNor]

Would a perfect god judge on faith in only himself or good-naturedness?

Does perfection include egocentricism, I would say, is the ultimate question.

in the bible it says god created us in the form of him so hes like the dad...if we dont respect the dad and we are very good people would the dad say "ok whatevs"? NO hed say you BETTER respect me and STILL be a good person

This whole question is thrown up on it's end and blended in the cosmic millstone, when one consider the following

How can a limited mortal being, possibly understand the thought process of a limitless immortal being
This is like the ant, pondering why humans don't follow scent trails, or walk in formation everywhere they go.

[Austin Setzer]

in the bible it says god created us in the form of him so hes like the dad...if we dont respect the dad and we are very good people would the dad say "ok whatevs"? NO hed say you BETTER respect me and STILL be a good person

This whole question is thrown up on it's end and blended in the cosmic millstone, when one consider the following

How can a limited mortal being, possibly understand the thought process of a limitless immortal being
This is like the ant, pondering why humans don't follow scent trails, or walk in formation everywhere they go.

i bet if ants learned we were made in the image of god they would worship US lol

[Farnhamia]

For understanding the person I'm debating with.

Good, then this will be fun and intelligent. I am a man of logic my friend, one who is a christian hanging by a thread, but a very stout deist. I am very much against organized religion. Anything else you want to know?

Your Social Security number and banking information would be useful. And your shoe size.

[Mosasauria]

in the bible it says god created us in the form of him so hes like the dad...if we dont respect the dad and we are very good people would the dad say "ok whatevs"? NO hed say you BETTER respect me and STILL be a good person

This whole question is thrown up on it's end and blended in the cosmic millstone, when one consider the following

How can a limited mortal being, possibly understand the thought process of a limitless immortal being
This is like the ant, pondering why humans don't follow scent trails, or walk in formation everywhere they go.

Precisely! Although I am still wondering if ants even have thought so why not use a dog?

[Tyr-risuur]

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

Make this as clear as I can one more time
The Question
Can Atheists go to Heaven
In order to form an answer to this pure hypothetical, you must start with the assumption (regardless of how ridiculus you find it) that Heaven exist, because this is place our group of discussion may or may not be going to.

The "well, it's not really real" isn't what this debate is about.

For the sake of argument, we're assuming it does. That's how.

Fair enough. We could discuss whether that's valid but fair enough.

This wasn't that far down... it was the next post infact. Are you trying to misrepresent me? Probably not but wtf?

[Mosasauria]

Good, then this will be fun and intelligent. I am a man of logic my friend, one who is a christian hanging by a thread, but a very stout deist. I am very much against organized religion. Anything else you want to know?

Your Social Security number and banking information would be useful. And your shoe size.

Shoe size is 12 1/2

[Laerod]

Would a perfect god judge on faith in only himself or good-naturedness?

Does perfection include egocentricism, I would say, is the ultimate question.

in the bible it says god created us in the form of him so hes like the dad...if we dont respect the dad and we are very good people would the dad say "ok whatevs"? NO hed say you BETTER respect me and STILL be a good person or your in trouble

The Bible also says that God lied to humans a couple times. Kinda sheds its credibility into doubt, doesn't it?

[GeneralHaNor]

This whole question is thrown up on it's end and blended in the cosmic millstone, when one consider the following

How can a limited mortal being, possibly understand the thought process of a limitless immortal being
This is like the ant, pondering why humans don't follow scent trails, or walk in formation everywhere they go.

Precisely! Although I am still wondering if ants even have thought so why not use a dog?

Because a dog is relatable
we can understand it's behavior, and after living with us, it has a general idea of what makes us happy and what makes us "not" happy
So dogs to a limited extent understand the human thought process, although they probably don't cognitively know it, it's more instinctual.

Maybe another example, teaching a caveman who just discovered fire, all about nuclear energy.
He couldn't begin to wrap his head around the science necessary to even understand the basic terms.
The best you can tell him is "Extra fire"

[Mosasauria]

in the bible it says god created us in the form of him so hes like the dad...if we dont respect the dad and we are very good people would the dad say "ok whatevs"? NO hed say you BETTER respect me and STILL be a good person or your in trouble

The Bible also says that God lied to humans a couple times. Kinda sheds its credibility into doubt, doesn't it?

And that is why I do not believe in the bible. It is so butchered and destroyed, how can you believe in it? It's as ridiculous as the Anglican Church and Scientology.

[Multasibi]

1. because the conditions for creating fossils are not perfect everywhere all the time. There are gaps in the fossil record because the world isn't a massive sedimentary bog.

2. actually they're just the ones most popularised by the media. They're popularised because they're exciting because in most cases we're very close proving them, although in the case of evolution there is so much proof that to disprove evolution you would have to find a perfect alternate explanation and even then it would need some astonishing new proof. There is literally no doubt that evolution takes place, the debate now is only on specific details, like how mutation works or how some viral and parasitic proteins effect DNA.

3. so what alternate explanation is there? and by explanation I mean factual hypothesis, not "god dunnit"

1. I know that, I was trying to make a point that has been tired out by many people
2. Explain how and why humanity has thought
3. God did it(my personal thought for this is waaaaaaaaayyy too long so I'll skip the details , unless you want them. Also, please stop with the personal attacks. I am not some WASP Bible-Belt Christian. I am a deist. )

wait, personal attacks? where have I attacked you personally? If you feel offended a section of my post, please highlight it so that I can re-iterate my point in a less offensive wording.

but anyways

1. Why?

2. For how, well chemical signals within our brain form the lowest level of 'thought', mainly emotions like anger, fear, joy, ect, then electrical impulses between neurons within the brain (although the nervous system as a whole does play a role) form 'higher' thought. As for why, well we don't know for certain, but we can see all around us it's benefits so why would it not just be one of those advantagous traits which rose to the fore during the process of human evolution?

3. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, although possibly in a different thread to perserve on-topicness, as I personally would love to have faith in some god. I don't, but it'd be nice to be reasoned into it if you please

[Mosasauria]

1. I know that, I was trying to make a point that has been tired out by many people
2. Explain how and why humanity has thought
3. God did it(my personal thought for this is waaaaaaaaayyy too long so I'll skip the details , unless you want them. Also, please stop with the personal attacks. I am not some WASP Bible-Belt Christian. I am a deist. )

wait, personal attacks? where have I attacked you personally? If you feel offended a section of my post, please highlight it so that I can re-iterate my point in a less offensive wording.

but anyways

1. Why?

2. For how, well chemical signals within our brain form the lowest level of 'thought', mainly emotions like anger, fear, joy, ect, then electrical impulses between neurons within the brain (although the nervous system as a whole does play a role) form 'higher' thought. As for why, well we don't know for certain, but we can see all around us it's benefits so why would it not just be one of those advantagous traits which rose to the fore during the process of human evolution?

3. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, although possibly in a different thread to perserve on-topicness, as I personally would love to have faith in some god. I don't, but it'd be nice to be reasoned into it if you please

1. As I said above, to play devil's advocate. Every good debate needs one.
2.Yes, but why would evolution gift us with that and nothing else.
3. Sure, could you make a new thread please?

[Mosasauria]

1. I know that, I was trying to make a point that has been tired out by many people
2. Explain how and why humanity has thought
3. God did it(my personal thought for this is waaaaaaaaayyy too long so I'll skip the details , unless you want them. Also, please stop with the personal attacks. I am not some WASP Bible-Belt Christian. I am a deist. )

wait, personal attacks? where have I attacked you personally? If you feel offended a section of my post, please highlight it so that I can re-iterate my point in a less offensive wording.

but anyways

1. Why?

2. For how, well chemical signals within our brain form the lowest level of 'thought', mainly emotions like anger, fear, joy, ect, then electrical impulses between neurons within the brain (although the nervous system as a whole does play a role) form 'higher' thought. As for why, well we don't know for certain, but we can see all around us it's benefits so why would it not just be one of those advantagous traits which rose to the fore during the process of human evolution?

3. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, although possibly in a different thread to perserve on-topicness, as I personally would love to have faith in some god. I don't, but it'd be nice to be reasoned into it if you please

Oh, and the offending part would be "god dunnit" and "git kwiet." I am well educated in grammar and just about anything else. Also, I am working on becoming a marine biologist and getting a Ph.d in thhat field.

[Mosasauria]

Precisely! Although I am still wondering if ants even have thought so why not use a dog?

Because a dog is relatable
we can understand it's behavior, and after living with us, it has a general idea of what makes us happy and what makes us "not" happy
So dogs to a limited extent understand the human thought process, although they probably don't cognitively know it, it's more instinctual.

Maybe another example, teaching a caveman who just discovered fire, all about nuclear energy.
He couldn't begin to wrap his head around the science necessary to even understand the basic terms.
The best you can tell him is "Extra fire"

That works, but how would you tell him "exra fire?" You don't know his language. Some of it could get lost in the translation and end up as "You must go to church"(sound familiar?