Can atheists go to Heaven?

[Gagatron]

Psalm 53

Athiests cannot be good, because God is the source of all good.

that is vaguely interesting but it is NOT making it clear to all people in all times and all cultures.

Read the book of Matthew, or the book of John, and you'll understand that it was made as clear as possible.

[Conserative Morality]

Read the book of Matthew, or the book of John, and you'll understand that it was made as clear as possible.

I'm sure the largely illiterate population of Roman-age Gaul and Brittania will understand.

[The Alma Mater]

Read the book of Matthew, or the book of John, and you'll understand that it was made as clear as possible.

I'm sure the largely illiterate population of Roman-age Gaul and Brittania will understand.

You mean the literate part could read obscure languages like Aramic and Hebrew ?

[Gagatron]

Read the book of Matthew, or the book of John, and you'll understand that it was made as clear as possible.

I'm sure the largely illiterate population of Roman-age Gaul and Brittania will understand.

I'm sure those people heard about Jesus somehow.

[Conserative Morality]

You mean the literate part could read obscure languages like Aramic and Hebrew ?

Let's be fair; if they were writing in a Roman province, higher chances are it was either in Greek or Latin than any vernacular language.

[Gagatron]

I'm sure the largely illiterate population of Roman-age Gaul and Brittania will understand.

You mean the literate part could read obscure languages like Aramic and Hebrew ?

The new testament was written in Greek, which was the lingua franca of the time.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm sure those people heard about Jesus somehow.

When it took months to get from one end of the Empire to the other? When there were small villages who rarely recieved visitors from far off places like Iudea?

[Conserative Morality]

The new testament was written in Greek, which was the lingua franca of the time.

Latin was the lingua franca of the time. Greek was the language of the educated.

[Ashmoria]

that is vaguely interesting but it is NOT making it clear to all people in all times and all cultures.

Read the book of Matthew, or the book of John, and you'll understand that it was made as clear as possible.

no it isnt

what hindu ....200 year ago... ever heard of jesus let along read matthew? what buddhist from 500 years ago had a clue about jesus? what atheist in china today has every heard of jesus?

not only that but its not even CLEAR to christians given the amazing amounts of disagreements between the various denominations so severe that they deny that the other has enough correct belief to qualify getting into heaven as christians.

[Grave_n_idle]

They'll get a chance to, is all I believe. Are you saying atheists can't have God-like qualities?

What are Christlike attributes?
Charity, brotherly kindness, service, longsuffering, humilty, diligence

Can an atheist have one of these qualities? Hence, could they not possibly have the chance to be rewarded in heaven for being this way?

Does a so called 'saved' person who does his religious rites every weekend and beats his family during the week go to heaven?

I asked a pastor the same question and he said, "Well obvously they never repented and were never saved."

"Even if they were there when you told the congregation that because the holy spirit was there, they were all saved, that if they cried out Jesus' name they would be saved?"

"Even if all that happened.."

"THEN WHY DOES EVERY ABUSIVE MEATSACK I MEET ON THE STREET BELIEVES HE IS STILL SAVED"

A truly saved individual would eradicate himself of evil eventually.

Walking in the spirit is scriptural... eradicating evil is not.

[Gagatron]

Read the book of Matthew, or the book of John, and you'll understand that it was made as clear as possible.

no it isnt

what hindu ....200 year ago... ever heard of jesus let along read matthew? what buddhist from 500 years ago had a clue about jesus? what atheist in china today has every heard of jesus?

not only that but its not even CLEAR to christians given the amazing amounts of disagreements between the various denominations so severe that they deny that the other has enough correct belief to qualify getting into heaven as christians.

Christians have a way of getting the message spread everywhere. Every continent has been visited by Christians. Even China is being visited by Christians right now secretly giving Bibles to Chinese people.

And all Christian basicall believe the same thing...No one gets to the father except through Jesus Christ.

[The Alma Mater]

I'm sure the largely illiterate population of Roman-age Gaul and Brittania will understand.

I'm sure those people heard about Jesus somehow.

And the pre Jesus people ?
And the pre Jew people for that matter ?

Let me see... all over the world you have civilisations thriving for millenia with their own religions and creation stories.

Then, suddenly, the Jews "remember" that hey - earth was only created a few generations ago. And only they know this. All those other, much older, creation tales are utter bonkers. Because only the Jews are chosen.

For a few millenia this knowledge does not help, because of original sin. Which noone except the Jews ever heard of, but hey.

But tadaa. Here comes JESUS ! And he SAVES ! HALLELUJA !

So sad that people all over the world, from Asia to the Americas, did not hear of him until many centuries later. Heck - Columbus only found a few native Americans in 1492. The poor souls... Almost 1500 with no knowledge of Jesus AT ALL !

[Gagatron]

I'm sure those people heard about Jesus somehow.

And the pre Jesus people ?
And the pre Jew people for that matter ?

Let me see... all over the world you have civilisations thriving for millenia with their own religions and creation stories.

Then, suddenly, the Jews "remember" that hey - earth was only created a few generations ago. And only they know this. All those other, much older, creation tales are utter bonkers. Because only the Jews are chosen.

For a few millenia this knowledge does not help, because of original sin. Which noone except the Jews ever heard of, but hey.

But tadaa. Here comes JESUS ! And he SAVES ! HALLELUJA !

So sad that people all over the world, from Asia to the Americas, did not hear of him until many centuries later. Heck - Columbus only found a few native Americans in 1492. The poor souls... Almost 1500 with no knowledge of Jesus AT ALL !

I've never thought about that before.

[Ashmoria]

no it isnt

what hindu ....200 year ago... ever heard of jesus let along read matthew? what buddhist from 500 years ago had a clue about jesus? what atheist in china today has every heard of jesus?

not only that but its not even CLEAR to christians given the amazing amounts of disagreements between the various denominations so severe that they deny that the other has enough correct belief to qualify getting into heaven as christians.

Christians have a way of getting the message spread everywhere. Every continent has been visited by Christians. Even China is being visited by Christians right now secretly giving Bibles to Chinese people.

And all Christian basicall believe the same thing...No one gets to the father except through Jesus Christ.

you are living in a dream world

NO christianity wasnt spread to the rest of the world in an instant. its not even true TODAY that everyone gets preached to all over the world.

for 1500 years no inhabitant of the western hemisphere had any chance of learning about jesus. what about THEM? didnt god love THEM?

and no, not all christians believe that only christians get into heaven.

[Metania]

If an Atheist can go to heaven, then clearly something is wrong in Christianity. At least, last I read, God wasn't too happy about those who rejected his existence. (And I mean existence as in being above existence--a famous trap people like to fall into is thinking God is limited to just 'existing' in this reality. But if he created this reality, then obviously he is above it, and thus above mundane 'existence.')

And I say this as an atheist, so yeah. I'll take whatever punishments there are if any heaven/hell actually existed. Odds are living here is worse than the torments of the so-called hell. Since angels are apparently so gullible (see Milton) it seems it'd only take one or more charismatic villains/nonbelievers to go down there, then they could probably take it over.

[Pyravar]

If a man is honestly and atheists, and has reason in his mind that there is no God, I don't see why he should go to hell. Even C.S. Lewis thinks that.

C.S. Lewis isn't the authority, the simple fact is that Jesus paid for our sins with his death, thus only through him can one enter heaven free of sin - if you don't accept Jesus in your heart as your saviour then you still owe Satan for your sins.

I don't believe the misdeeds of some mythical founding man and woman are my problem to deal with. If so, why stop there? Do I have to atone for my grandfather's sins, greatgrandmother's sins? Religion is just a big mess of contradictions and illogic.

If God is good why is he sending so many good people to hell?

[Conchobar Macnessa]

So you're main concern is that your faith is a waste or not?

You don't think God is merciful? you don't think he'll give atheists a chance? What if they never really had a chance to learn about a God? What if they were good in this life? Was their life a waste if they did good things and were good in their hearts and just didn't go to church?

The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
There is no one who does good.

Psalm 53

Athiests cannot be good, because God is the source of all good.

I'm no athiest, allow me to make that clear. I profess my religion and I'm a firm Christian.

There is no such God Gagatron. There is no such thing as a loving God and a hateful God, 'you cannot serve two masters' doesnt mean just being Godly and unGodly, but it also means, God is only one thing. Either he's loving or he's hateful. I am so glad it's not up to you to decide. I will not, as a firm Christian may I remind you, hold to the belief that it is impossible for an athiest to be good, simply because of ONE PSALM in the old testament

[Gagatron]

C.S. Lewis isn't the authority, the simple fact is that Jesus paid for our sins with his death, thus only through him can one enter heaven free of sin - if you don't accept Jesus in your heart as your saviour then you still owe Satan for your sins.

I don't believe the misdeeds of some mythical founding man and woman are my problem to deal with. If so, why stop there? Do I have to atone for my grandfather's sins, greatgrandmother's sins? Religion is just a big mess of contradictions and illogic.

If God is good why is he sending so many good people to hell?

Because they're not good. They're evil.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't believe the misdeeds of some mythical founding man and woman are my problem to deal with. If so, why stop there? Do I have to atone for my grandfather's sins, greatgrandmother's sins? Religion is just a big mess of contradictions and illogic.

If God is good why is he sending so many good people to hell?

Because they're not good. They're evil.

And that's not an answer.

A god that is omnipotent can do anything, by definition. So it's not that he can't save even the sinners, it's that he won't - which means he's not ineffective - he's evil.

And an evil God that punishes mere mortals for their inherent flaws based on HIS designs, wouldn't be worthy of worship.

[Gagatron]

Psalm 53

Athiests cannot be good, because God is the source of all good.

I'm no athiest, allow me to make that clear. I profess my religion and I'm a firm Christian.

There is no such God Gagatron. There is no such thing as a loving God and a hateful God, 'you cannot serve two masters' doesnt mean just being Godly and unGodly, but it also means, God is only one thing. Either he's loving or he's hateful. I am so glad it's not up to you to decide. I will not, as a firm Christian may I remind you, hold to the belief that it is impossible for an athiest to be good, simply because of ONE PSALM in the old testament

Well then, that's your choice. Be mindful, that's a slippery slope. Next you'll be disbelieving that Jesus is the only way to Heaven.
You must remember that the whole Bible is valid for Christianity, not just parts of it.

[Conserative Morality]

Well then, that's your choice. Be mindful, that's a slippery slope. Next you'll be disbelieving that Jesus is the only way to Heaven.
You must remember that the whole Bible is valid for Christianity, not just parts of it.

Do you eat shellfish? Do you fail to kill every Wiccan you meet?

[Gagatron]

Because they're not good. They're evil.

And that's not an answer.

A god that is omnipotent can do anything, by definition. So it's not that he can't save even the sinners, it's that he won't - which means he's not ineffective - he's evil.

And an evil God that punishes mere mortals for their inherent flaws based on HIS designs, wouldn't be worthy of worship.

Man's flaws are man's fault. We create our own flaws, we create our own evil. We have the option from the time of birth to choose between the path to God or the path of destruction.

If anyone gets into hell it's his own fault.

[Conchobar Macnessa]

If an Atheist can go to heaven, then clearly something is wrong in Christianity. At least, last I read, God wasn't too happy about those who rejected his existence. (And I mean existence as in being above existence--a famous trap people like to fall into is thinking God is limited to just 'existing' in this reality. But if he created this reality, then obviously he is above it, and thus above mundane 'existence.')

And I say this as an atheist, so yeah. I'll take whatever punishments there are if any heaven/hell actually existed. Odds are living here is worse than the torments of the so-called hell. Since angels are apparently so gullible (see Milton) it seems it'd only take one or more charismatic villains/nonbelievers to go down there, then they could probably take it over.

And see you have a legitimate concern. But modern christianity doesn't make the distinction that anyone "who had a belief then rejects the truth" and people that just choose not to believe in God. If you knew within your heart that there is a God, if you had a firm belief and testimony and faithfully knew that there is a God. If you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that God IS REAL, and rejected that belief (Judas anyone?) then the scriptures teach us you will burn.

If you never really had a firm belief, God isn't going to punish you. He's going to give you the choice, then you decide. And that is what the scriptures teach as well.

your bible-thumping eyes rolling praise jesus tvangelists epicly fail in teaching true doctrine

[Conserative Morality]

Man's flaws are man's fault. We create our own flaws, we create our own evil. We have the option from the time of birth to choose between the path to God or the path of destruction.

If anyone gets into hell it's his own fault.

God created us. God is omnipotent. Ergo, when he created us, he knows which will be evil and which will not. By allowing such people into the world, into creation, he is allowing evil through his inaction.

[Gagatron]

Well then, that's your choice. Be mindful, that's a slippery slope. Next you'll be disbelieving that Jesus is the only way to Heaven.
You must remember that the whole Bible is valid for Christianity, not just parts of it.

Do you eat shellfish? Do you fail to kill every Wiccan you meet?

There's a verse in the bible that condones the eating of shellfish, although I don't particularly like to eat it.
And there is also a verse in the Bible, (Ten Commandments?) that says to not kill.