Can atheists go to Heaven?

[Mad hatters in jeans]

With good humor I say this to all atheists: you won't be atheist in the next life

Meh.

We'll see.

Or, perhaps, we won't even have the chance to.

actually i figure if there is some "divine" or otherwise spiritual mechanism for a next life we won't know it's there.

Which is kind of abusive really. although it would point to an evil diety, and it would add credence to an evil God who wants to torture people every opportunity for their amusement.

[ThoseWhoAreGood]

All good folk go to heaven. Ghandi or atheist, the kindly bum on the street or Mother Theresa herself. If you're good, you go to heaven.

But what is good, and how are good an bad weighed ?

Let us for instance assume that Mother Theresas aid to wounded was good.
Let us also assume that her "I shall help you IF you convert" attitude was not good.

Is Mother Theresa then good or bad ?

Trickier example:

Bill shoots a random guy on the street, because he wanted to kill someone. Let us assume this is bad.
By complete coincidence the guy in question however turns an Al Queda terrorist, on his way to blow up a school with 1200 children in it. Let us assume that the prevention of this bombing is good.

Is Bill good due to the consequences of his actions or bad due to his motives ?

Even trickier example:

Ahmed's sister was raped. Ahmed feels honourbound to kill the rapist, tracks him down and does so.
In his religion this is good.
In our society this is called murder.
Is Ahmed good or bad ?

In case 1 and 3, they were doing things based on the "traditions of their Fathers" or based on their religion to which they were devoted.

In case 2, murder was in the first guys heart, of which he will be held accountable, and the fact that he had no foreknowledge of the result of his actions has no bearing.

Bottom line. We will be judged according to our hearts and our works.

EDIT: in the BoM, there are several stories of peoples who were "evil" because of the "traditions of their Fathers" and we are told they would be better off in the afterlife than those who "knew the truth" and had forsaken it.

[The Super Saints]

This is damned blasphemy.
Damned blasphemy, it is!
To even begin to determine the will or actions of the gods, using the basis of Christianity, is preposterous. The "Holy" Bible is a book written by man, and is no holier than your middle finger. To even try to interpret such word through questioning others is to reject the practice of reason, and adopt former papal policies, a series of corrupt events occurring as a result.
FEAR NOT, however, child.. We'll never truly know the will of the Gods.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

This is damned blasphemy.
Damned blasphemy, it is!
To even begin to determine the will or actions of the gods, using the basis of Christianity, is preposterous. The "Holy" Bible is a book written by man, and is no holier than your middle finger. To even try to interpret such word through questioning others is to reject the practice of reason, and adopt former papal policies, a series of corrupt events occurring as a result.
FEAR NOT, however, child.. We'll never truly know the will of the Gods.

i'm trying to guess what that quote is from without using google but i got nothing.

[ThoseWhoAreGood]

This is damned blasphemy.
Damned blasphemy, it is!
To even begin to determine the will or actions of the gods, using the basis of Christianity, is preposterous. The "Holy" Bible is a book written by man, and is no holier than your middle finger. To even try to interpret such word through questioning others is to reject the practice of reason, and adopt former papal policies, a series of corrupt events occurring as a result.
FEAR NOT, however, child.. We'll never truly know the will of the Gods.

true, it was WRITTEN by man, but inspired or 'Authored' by God.

[ThoseWhoAreGood]

Off to real life. I may be back or may not. If not. Happy turkey day. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Have a good Kwanzaa. Enjoy your winter solstice. If I missed your favorite, enjoy that one too. Enjoy the time off of work due to these holidays even if you dont believe in them.

[Conchobar Macnessa]

All good folk go to heaven. Ghandi or atheist, the kindly bum on the street or Mother Theresa herself. If you're good, you go to heaven.

But what is good, and how are good an bad weighed ?

Yknow that's a valid question. And I honestly think it's up to each individual to decide that. That's heavily weighted and there are so many variables that you could come up with to argue the problem with that statement, but let's be honest with ourselves. It really comes down to what you believe and what you choose to have faith in, religion or no. If you honestly believe what you're doing is the right thing. And by a large margin, people choose 'good' things. Subjective good things to be sure, but they choose good things.

But with so much gray area, why then is it so hard to believe that there could possibly be one law? Or rather, why is it so hard to fathom that so many people cling to the honest belief that their religion is the one?

Eventually we're all working towards the perfect philosophy, God-fearing or no, so there eventually must be one perfect train of thought, right? That being asked, could that possibly exist today?

Don't condemn the faithless, all you believers, but don't discount the possibility that there is such a thing as a God.

[Gagatron]

The very idea that an Athiest would get into Heaven blows my mind.

[Ashmoria]

The very idea that an Athiest would get into Heaven blows my mind.

why?

doesnt god love atheists too?

[Conchobar Macnessa]

The very idea that an Athiest would get into Heaven blows my mind.

They'll get a chance to, is all I believe. Are you saying atheists can't have God-like qualities?

What are Christlike attributes?
Charity, brotherly kindness, service, longsuffering, humilty, diligence

Can an atheist have one of these qualities? Hence, could they not possibly have the chance to be rewarded in heaven for being this way?

Does a so called 'saved' person who does his religious rites every weekend and beats his family during the week go to heaven?

I asked a pastor the same question and he said, "Well obvously they never repented and were never saved."

"Even if they were there when you told the congregation that because the holy spirit was there, they were all saved, that if they cried out Jesus' name they would be saved?"

"Even if all that happened.."

"THEN WHY DOES EVERY ABUSIVE MEATSACK I MEET ON THE STREET BELIEVES HE IS STILL SAVED"

[Gagatron]

The very idea that an Athiest would get into Heaven blows my mind.

why?

doesnt god love atheists too?

God is not a pansie. If you refuse to believe in him he's not going to open up his arms after you die, and say, "Oh it doesn't matter, come get a hug and a house made of gold!"

That's not to say God doesn't love everybody. He's just not going to reward you unless you believe in him, which I think is great, because it means my faith is not a waste.

[Gagatron]

The very idea that an Athiest would get into Heaven blows my mind.

They'll get a chance to, is all I believe. Are you saying atheists can't have God-like qualities?

What are Christlike attributes?
Charity, brotherly kindness, service, longsuffering, humilty, diligence

Can an atheist have one of these qualities? Hence, could they not possibly have the chance to be rewarded in heaven for being this way?

Does a so called 'saved' person who does his religious rites every weekend and beats his family during the week go to heaven?

I asked a pastor the same question and he said, "Well obvously they never repented and were never saved."

"Even if they were there when you told the congregation that because the holy spirit was there, they were all saved, that if they cried out Jesus' name they would be saved?"

"Even if all that happened.."

"THEN WHY DOES EVERY ABUSIVE MEATSACK I MEET ON THE STREET BELIEVES HE IS STILL SAVED"

A truly saved individual would eradicate himself of evil eventually.

[Conserative Morality]

God is not a pansie. If you refuse to believe in him he's not going to open up his arms after you die, and say, "Oh it doesn't matter, come get a hug and a house made of gold!"

That's not to say God doesn't love everybody. He's just not going to reward you unless you believe in him, which I think is great, because it means my faith is not a waste.

What a petty being.

[Ashmoria]

why?

doesnt god love atheists too?

God is not a pansie. If you refuse to believe in him he's not going to open up his arms after you die, and say, "Oh it doesn't matter, come get a hug and a house made of gold!"

That's not to say God doesn't love everybody. He's just not going to reward you unless you believe in him, which I think is great, because it means my faith is not a waste.

good thing youre not god then.

it seems to me that if god wanted a specific belief out of people he would make that clear to everyone in every time and every culture. that he doesnt means to me that he doesnt care all that much.

[Gagatron]

God is not a pansie. If you refuse to believe in him he's not going to open up his arms after you die, and say, "Oh it doesn't matter, come get a hug and a house made of gold!"

That's not to say God doesn't love everybody. He's just not going to reward you unless you believe in him, which I think is great, because it means my faith is not a waste.

What a petty being.

What? Wouldn't you be upset if someone COMPLETELY disregarded your existence, and then proceded to try and reap the rewards of your love AFTER it was too late?
God's just being just.

[Conchobar Macnessa]

Crazy interesting there are so many replying to this topic. And I've been entertained by the plethora of intelligent and progressive conversations like these, but never felt the need to reply. I'll throw in my two cents to this one, since religion is a big part of my life.

All good folk go to heaven. Ghandi or atheist, the kindly bum on the street or Mother Theresa herself. If you're good, you go to heaven. Now, I do believe (some would say I'm narrow minded) that there is one religion, but, I also believe in a just and merciful God.

Just because you have to follow certain laws of heaven (be good=you get to go there)
Merciful because this same God that people cling to also demands perfection, and there's no way to be perfect unless you throw Jesus into the picture, who paid for everyone's sins. God gives everyone a chance

There's no such God that won't let his children into his kingdom unless they all had the chance to make the choice to be there if they wanted. I had someone try to tell me that the natives of the Himalayas who never heard the name Jesus and weren't 'saved' would burn in hell. I asked, "Why would God be so merciless to his children?"

Her reply, "Oh they're not Gods children. They're just people."

WHAT IS MODERN CHRISTIANITY TEACHING THESE DAYS.

God has created everyone on the earth IE everyone on the earth is his child IE he loves all of us as his children IE he rewards ALL of his children for their good works, whether they worship him or not and because he loves us will give us a second chance. Who is this hateful God that people believe in? Who is this supposed Beloved Father who sends his kids to hell if they go to the wrong protestant sect, THAT IN ESSENCE, is NO different from any of the other ones! Show me a New Testament Jesus that taught that.

With good humor I say this to all atheists: you won't be atheist in the next life

Interesting but if there is no new christanity or old christanity being taught. Christanity states its the only way to salvation and so do other beleifs. So you sound more of the spiritual type and not so much religous type with the way you stated your beleifs. Also the basis of alot of religons since they were first created has always been follow our religon or you will be tortured or not have a good life in you afterlife. Either way its always been become a follower or suffer

I like to think of myself as spiritual and religious.

[Gagatron]

God is not a pansie. If you refuse to believe in him he's not going to open up his arms after you die, and say, "Oh it doesn't matter, come get a hug and a house made of gold!"

That's not to say God doesn't love everybody. He's just not going to reward you unless you believe in him, which I think is great, because it means my faith is not a waste.

good thing youre not god then.

it seems to me that if god wanted a specific belief out of people he would make that clear to everyone in every time and every culture. that he doesnt means to me that he doesnt care all that much.

I think he did make it clear.

[Conchobar Macnessa]

good thing youre not god then.

it seems to me that if god wanted a specific belief out of people he would make that clear to everyone in every time and every culture. that he doesnt means to me that he doesnt care all that much.

I think he did make it clear.

So you're main concern is that your faith is a waste or not?

You don't think God is merciful? you don't think he'll give atheists a chance? What if they never really had a chance to learn about a God? What if they were good in this life? Was their life a waste if they did good things and were good in their hearts and just didn't go to church?

[The Alma Mater]

good thing youre not god then.

it seems to me that if god wanted a specific belief out of people he would make that clear to everyone in every time and every culture. that he doesnt means to me that he doesnt care all that much.

I think he did make it clear.

But Vishnu, Ra, Odin, Jupiter and so on just made it clearer ?

[Conserative Morality]

What? Wouldn't you be upset if someone COMPLETELY disregarded your existence, and then proceded to try and reap the rewards of your love AFTER it was too late?
God's just being just.

If I didn't give them any reason to believe, why would I expect them to believe?

[Ashmoria]

good thing youre not god then.

it seems to me that if god wanted a specific belief out of people he would make that clear to everyone in every time and every culture. that he doesnt means to me that he doesnt care all that much.

I think he did make it clear.

oh really? do you think he made it clear to the hindus?

[Conchobar Macnessa]

What a petty being.

What? Wouldn't you be upset if someone COMPLETELY disregarded your existence, and then proceded to try and reap the rewards of your love AFTER it was too late?
God's just being just.

Wouldn't you be upset if you lived a good life and it was suddenly all for nothing? That you had no previous knowledge nor really had the chance to gain such knowledge, and oh well tough luck? Where is the loving Heavenly Father we Christians profess?

[Gagatron]

I think he did make it clear.

So you're main concern is that your faith is a waste or not?

You don't think God is merciful? you don't think he'll give atheists a chance? What if they never really had a chance to learn about a God? What if they were good in this life? Was their life a waste if they did good things and were good in their hearts and just didn't go to church?

The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
There is no one who does good.

Psalm 53

Athiests cannot be good, because God is the source of all good.

[The Alma Mater]

Athiests cannot be good, because God is the source of all good.

Nono, that is Atum-Ra.

God is a simple demi-urge worshipped only by people that shall burn in the underworld for all eternity.

[Ashmoria]

So you're main concern is that your faith is a waste or not?

You don't think God is merciful? you don't think he'll give atheists a chance? What if they never really had a chance to learn about a God? What if they were good in this life? Was their life a waste if they did good things and were good in their hearts and just didn't go to church?

The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
There is no one who does good.

Psalm 53

Athiests cannot be good, because God is the source of all good.

that is vaguely interesting but it is NOT making it clear to all people in all times and all cultures.