Can atheists go to Heaven?

[Grave_n_idle]

Got it.

You're talking crap, so there's nothing to lose by ignoring you.

Whatever helps you maintain your worldview

Your lack of coherent point or argument does not constitute a 'worldview'. Much less, my worldview.

[Geniasis]

No, it can't be that. He says that Adam and Eve will die IN THE DAY they'll eat the fruit; which they didn't (according to Genesis, hence thy LORD again).

Clarify for me, was this the verse where God warns Adam, or the verse where Adam repeats God's warning to Eve, also which translation of the Bible is this from (The KJV, while highly influential in English lit, is essentially worthless in theological discussion)?

[Bottle]

So a horse is a zebra?

If you use it to ride down your enemies and destroy them
Yes.

And that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

I wonder, General, if you set out to provide a perfect glowing example of the ways that religious training destroys the capacity for rational thought, or if this is purely accidental?

[The Devine Comedy]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but the bible doesn't actually preach that if your good you go to heaven or if you bad you go to hell. It actually teaches in the book of revelation of a second coming of Christ, who will cast Satan into an abyss and will set of a kingdom of god on a paradise earth. The bible also teaches in the book of revelation only between 100,000 and 150,000 people go to heaven to be part of a governing body for a paradise earth.

[Ashmoria]

Atheism is nothing but a lack of belief. It has no tenets, no dogma. There is nothing to be fundamentalist about. You can be a stupid, troglodytic atheist, but you can't be fundamentalist.

Really
and pray tell what makes you an expert?

I've encountered my fair share of "Militant" Atheists
Who for them it is not enough to not believe, but to insist on the lack of, and insist that everyone should believe as they do
They make the claim that religion is the greatest evil ever devised by man, and that in order to move forward as a society, we must abolish and remove this evil, even if this means we need to purge those who won't let go.

If this isn't "Fundamentalism" then pray tell what is.

militant and fundamentalist are 2 different things.

you might want to study up on that.

and "strident" might be a better word for those who arent blowing things up in the name of atheism.

[Ashmoria]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but the bible doesn't actually preach that if your good you go to heaven or if you bad you go to hell. It actually teaches in the book of revelation of a second coming of Christ, who will cast Satan into an abyss and will set of a kingdom of god on a paradise earth. The bible also teaches in the book of revelation only between 100,000 and 150,000 people go to heaven to be part of a governing body for a paradise earth.

yeah good thing revelation is a book of prophecy and is unlikely to mean what it seems to mean.

[Respublika Goroda]

Many paths, one destination.

[Risottia]

No, it can't be that. He says that Adam and Eve will die IN THE DAY they'll eat the fruit; which they didn't (according to Genesis, hence thy LORD again).

Clarify for me, was this the verse where God warns Adam, or the verse where Adam repeats God's warning to Eve, also which translation of the Bible is this from (The KJV, while highly influential in English lit, is essentially worthless in theological discussion)?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nov ... is_lt.html

Liber Genesis, II
15 Tulit ergo Dominus Deus hominem et posuit eum in paradiso Eden, ut operaretur et custodiret illum;
16 praecepitque Dominus Deus homini dicens: “Ex omni ligno paradisi comede;
17 de ligno autem scientiae boni et mali ne comedas; in quocumque enim die comederis ex eo, morte morieris”.

"In quocumque die comederis, morieris". Indicative, futurum simplex in BOTH principal and subordinate. Hence, the very same day for eating and dying.


Liber Genesis, III
1 Et serpens erat callidior cunctis animantibus agri, quae fecerat Dominus Deus. Qui dixit ad mulierem: “Verene praecepit vobis Deus, ut non comederetis de omni ligno paradisi?”.
2 Cui respondit mulier: “De fructu lignorum, quae sunt in paradiso, vescimur;
3 de fructu vero ligni, quod est in medio paradisi, praecepit nobis Deus, ne comederemus et ne tangeremus illud, ne moriamur”.
4 Dixit autem serpens ad mulierem: “Nequaquam morte moriemini!
5 Scit enim Deus quod in quocumque die comederitis ex eo, aperientur oculi vestri, et eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum”.
6 Vidit igitur mulier quod bonum esset lignum ad vescendum et pulchrum oculis et desiderabile esset lignum ad intellegendum; et tulit de fructu illius et comedit deditque etiam viro suo secum, qui comedit.
7 Et aperti sunt oculi amborum.


http://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%93%CE ... E%B9%CF%82
Γένεσις· β'
καὶ ἐνετείλατο Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς τῷ Ἀδὰμ λέγων·
ἀπὸ παντὸς ξύλου τοῦ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ βαι αὐτὸνγῇ, ιζ' ἀπὸ δὲ τοῦ ξύλου τοῦ γινώσκειν καλὸν καὶ πονηρόν, οὐ φάγεσθε ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ·
ᾗ δ᾿ ἂν ἡμέρᾳ φάγητε ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ, θανάτῳ ἀποθανεῖσθε.


Pretty clear.

[Geniasis]

I am neither Catholic, nor do I speak any of those languages. So... that really doesn't help me.

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but the bible doesn't actually preach that if your good you go to heaven or if you bad you go to hell. It actually teaches in the book of revelation of a second coming of Christ, who will cast Satan into an abyss and will set of a kingdom of god on a paradise earth. The bible also teaches in the book of revelation only between 100,000 and 150,000 people go to heaven to be part of a governing body for a paradise earth.

Revelation isn't literal.

[Karnei Shomron]

In Hinduism, there's a myth about a atheist that kept reminding himself that God did not exist. He died and immediately went to heaven because he always remembered God. I'm Jewish and Gentiles can go to heaven if they do good deeds.

[Leepaidamba]

In Hinduism, there's a myth about a atheist that kept reminding himself that God did not exist. He died and immediately went to heaven because he always remembered God.

A story I can hardly believe. Hindus believe in reincarnation and only after a long line of lives one can go to heaven. Maybe he just did his purpose which is also something the Hindus believe in.

[YLOKANDIA]

I am Roman Catholic but God on judgment day(if that day might inevitably come) should judge a person on his/her merits while he/she was alive. God should have no bias towards anybody especially people who are atheist,nontheist but have the utmost good character, morality, attitude,a model citizen in the truest sense and of other religions (including Laveyan Satanists and even Theistic Satanists if they are of sincere good will and also follow the guidelines which I mentioned previously) who are of the same mold i.e. Gandhi.

IMHO, religion is flawed for man is flawed(10 brownie points for the people who can answer correctly which movie this quote comes from xP) the Bible is made by men and even thought its suppose to be a guide on how to live morally(or you might take it in the literal sense), it is made by people and you know how people will distort things to spread their certain message across(how many versions of the bible are there? This is an educated guess but there are probably tens if not hundereds of versions of the bible due to there being quite a number of denominations in Christianity) and thus further their own agenda. Yes like one of the previous posters have mentioned many paths, one destination.(That saying unfortuantely can also apply to Hell if you think about it. I will exclude purgatory for the ultimate goal is to cleanse yourself of sin before being worthy to entering Heaven.) The Bible at times makes God bipolar at times he's all benevolent and everything is cool and what not and other times he's a vengeful God who's on a warpath to send everybody into eternal damnation.I'm living my life as how I see fit with some guidance from the Bible and some from other sources(other religions, ideologies like altruism and universalism etc.) How I view how I'm living is in between Hedonism and practicing religious asceticism like a monk or non-religious asceticism, which how most people live their lives that is having fun....just not too much fun. Personally, however I believe I'll end up in Purgatory for some time before meeting up witchu guys xP

[YLOKANDIA]

Actually whether heaven exists or not is rather pertinent. How can I go to heaven assuming it doesn't exist?

Is that what the forum is asking?
And besides, for all we know, Confucianists could be right. Or mybe Jingoists. Or Islamic Extremists. Or Extraterrestrial originists.

^^ but in all seriousness, yes it is a toss-up. Imagine a haystack of prodigious proportion which it would be impossible for a mere person to even try to comprehend,lest find one measly needle in it and for that matter, the needle might not even exist in the first place.(On the other hand there might be an infinite amount of needles ) Multiply that by the theory that there might seemingly be an infinite number of universes and well as long as you love treasure hunting you should be a very happy camper.

[YLOKANDIA]

"God moves in mysterious ways"

or another workable theory

The test is not for him, but for us, it is so we may know if we are worthy.

But my point is that he already knows who is worthy or not. Being that he is said to be omniscient. And I never said the test was for him.

Maybe God's sense of the word of omniscient is one which humans cannot fathom to understand.

[New Kereptica]

Maybe God's sense of the word of omniscient is one which humans cannot fathom to understand.

That's entirely nonsensical. A human word cannot be unfathomable to humans.

[Risottia]

I am neither Catholic, nor do I speak any of those languages. So... that really doesn't help me.

Then why did you question my source in the first place?
You'll have either to stick to some English translation, or to learn Latin and Ancient Greek.

Revelation isn't literal.

The Bible is the Word of God according to Christians. When God quotes himself, you should take him literally - or stop being a Christian.

[YLOKANDIA]

Maybe God's sense of the word of omniscient is one which humans cannot fathom to understand.

That's entirely nonsensical. A human word cannot be unfathomable to humans.

Yes you are correct but for all we know, God might not make sense at all with how he runs things.... well at least to humans.

[Risottia]

Maybe God's sense of the word of omniscient is one which humans cannot fathom to understand.

That's entirely nonsensical. A human word cannot be unfathomable to humans.

But a human word can be so poorly defined by humans in first place that it becomes unfathomabily meaningless to humans themselves.

[New Kereptica]

But a human word can be so poorly defined by humans in first place that it becomes unfathomabily meaningless to humans themselves.

It can.

A rather unnecessary statement, though; omniscience is clearly defined.

[Angleter]

Life is a test. And those who fail it go to hell
the only way to success is to believe Jesus christ. accept him into your heart and thou shall not burn

If your God is omniscient, then why does he need to test us? He already knows who will fail and pass this "test".

So do teachers, but we still have exams.

[Vecherd]

If your God is omniscient, then why does he need to test us? He already knows who will fail and pass this "test".

So do teachers, but we still have exams.

Teachers knows nothing, and shouldnt we first ask, is there a heaven?.

[Angleter]

I am neither Catholic, nor do I speak any of those languages. So... that really doesn't help me.

Then why did you question my source in the first place?
You'll have either to stick to some English translation, or to learn Latin and Ancient Greek.

Revelation isn't literal.

The Bible is the Word of God according to Christians. When God quotes himself, you should take him literally - or stop being a Christian.

God is incapable of speaking in metaphors now? Also, most moderate Christians agree that God did not personally write the Bible á la the Qur'an (hehe, pun).

[Angleter]

So do teachers, but we still have exams.

Teachers knows nothing, and shouldnt we first ask, is there a heaven?.

Yes, we should. Unfortunately, this thread assumes we've established that there is such a place.

[Tom Bishop]

There's a Heaven?

[Leepaidamba]

There's a Heaven?

Add "Assuming there is a heaven," to the title.