Can atheists go to Heaven?

[Gagatron]

Chances are, the tree would grant them eternal life from continued eating rather than from a single fruit.

But we're talking about a fruit that gives you immortality, so I don't really have strong grounds to call shenanigans.

The fruit of Knowledge gives the godlike knowledge from just one taste, which rather suggests that the Tree of Life has similar properties. As the scripture says, mankind only had to reach out his hand, take the fruit and eat - that's a fait accompli. It doesn't say that immortality requires you to continue eating.

But, as you say, if eating the fruit provides immortality - even if you did have to keep eating it - then the 'surely die' situation seems shaky.

I keep telling you.
It doesn't matter if they could have eaten of the Tree of Life.
God KNEW they wouldn't, therefore he SURE.
Thus, SUREly.

[GeneralHaNor]

God is just, but he is also forgiving.
He's pretty much, I think, willing to forgive anyone of anything.
That said, if you don't ever request forgiveness from him, the just thing to do is to punish evil.
IMHO.

You can't choose your beliefs. I can believe in the Christian god as much as I can believe I am an invisible pink unicorn. Grace? Faith? Saved by grace and faith? I cannot believe in God. I cannot believe in Jesus. I cannot be saved. Some are arbitrarily saved by "grace" of gullibility and/or chance. Some are arbitrarily damned by "grace" of intellect and/or chance. How in all this is God just?

You can't choose your beliefs?

Well maybe not you, because you are sheep, but I forge my own destiny
For Example, last year this time, I chose to a be a Libertarian
This year, I'm an Anarchist
And next Year I might take the next step and become a revolutionary

[Gagatron]

It was a lie.
God knew that Adam and Eve would die.
God means what he says.
And they did die. So it was surely.

yeah

so

as i said. misleading from day one (or day 9 maybe).

god told them a half truth that they would need far more understanding of life and death and theology than they could possibly have as people who had only lived a few days without the knowledge of good and evil.

Where's the half truth?
He told them they'd die.
They died.
It's simple stuff.

[Geniasis]

yeah

so

as i said. misleading from day one (or day 9 maybe).

god told them a half truth that they would need far more understanding of life and death and theology than they could possibly have as people who had only lived a few days without the knowledge of good and evil.

Where's the half truth?
He told them they'd die.
They died.
It's simple stuff.

It's a technical truth, yes. Still, it was misleading.

[Ashmoria]

yeah

so

as i said. misleading from day one (or day 9 maybe).

god told them a half truth that they would need far more understanding of life and death and theology than they could possibly have as people who had only lived a few days without the knowledge of good and evil.

Where's the half truth?
He told them they'd die.
They died.
It's simple stuff.

you can deny it all you want but he said on that day they would die and THEY DIDNT DIE ON THAT DAY.

so....sure you can in hindsight say "oh gee he must have meant something else" but that doesnt mean that an innocent like eve wouldnt take him at his flat out word. that makes it a half truth at best.

[The Un-believers]

Life is a test. And those who fail it go to hell
the only way to success is to believe Jesus christ. accept him into your heart and thou shall not burn

If your God is omniscient, then why does he need to test us? He already knows who will fail and pass this "test".

[Galloism]

Where's the half truth?
He told them they'd die.
They died.
It's simple stuff.

you can deny it all you want but he said on that day they would die and THEY DIDNT DIE ON THAT DAY.

so....sure you can in hindsight say "oh gee he must have meant something else" but that doesnt mean that an innocent like eve wouldnt take him at his flat out word. that makes it a half truth at best.

FYI, god didn't say anything to eve regarding that we have record of.

Adam did.

[GeneralHaNor]

Life is a test. And those who fail it go to hell
the only way to success is to believe Jesus christ. accept him into your heart and thou shall not burn

If your God is omniscient, then why does he need to test us? He already knows who will fail and pass this "test".

"God moves in mysterious ways"

or another workable theory

The test is not for him, but for us, it is so we may know if we are worthy.

[Geniasis]

FYI, god didn't say anything to eve regarding that we have record of.

Adam did.

How useless was he? Seriously, the Serpent is doing his whole spiel to Eve and Adam does nothing even though he's standing right there.

Girl, throw his deadbeat ass out.

[Augarundus]

According to the Catholic Church, yes. Anyone who lives a moral (not a sinless, but a moral) life can.

How should I know?

[GeneralHaNor]

FYI, god didn't say anything to eve regarding that we have record of.

Adam did.

How useless was he? Seriously, the Serpent is doing his whole spiel to Eve and Adam does nothing even though he's standing right there.

Girl, throw his deadbeat ass out.

*Women is deceived*
*Man does nothing*
*Man is somehow to blame*

Typical Female Logic

[Ashmoria]

you can deny it all you want but he said on that day they would die and THEY DIDNT DIE ON THAT DAY.

so....sure you can in hindsight say "oh gee he must have meant something else" but that doesnt mean that an innocent like eve wouldnt take him at his flat out word. that makes it a half truth at best.

FYI, god didn't say anything to eve regarding that we have record of.

Adam did.

ahh yes i see my mistake

but eve showed that she did understand the prohibition.

[Teh Fluffles]

You do not need to believe in God in order to be close to him. Closeness does not come from simply believing or claiming to believe, but from within. An atheist who follows a path of sacrifice, kindness, purity, and an open-mind is more likely to go to heaven than a Christian who is materialistic and non-charitable, shuns all non-believers, and claims openly to believe in God, yet only truly does so because of a fear in the back of the concious of ending up in Hell.

[Galloism]

FYI, god didn't say anything to eve regarding that we have record of.

Adam did.

How useless was he? Seriously, the Serpent is doing his whole spiel to Eve and Adam does nothing even though he's standing right there.

Girl, throw his deadbeat ass out.

It is worth noting that while it says Eve was deceived, that expression is never used about Adam.

It follows then that Adam chose to disobey, in full knowledge.

He then tried to blame his wife.

Who really is the worse one here?

[St George of England]

Are atheists banned from Spearmint rhino?

[The Un-believers]

that is ignorance...a thing that leads to suffering...

So, according to your holy book, anyone who doesn't accept Jesus into their heart, even the people who have never heard of Jesus or Yahweh, will burn in hell......Wow, Yahweh is a dick. I don't want to be in his ass-kissing Heaven.
Assuming Heaven exists

[Austin Setzer]

because he wants you to study and pass this test

[Teh Fluffles]

Metaphorical. Eve was man's earthly, instinctual nature, and Adam willingly succumbed himself to it.
This is to say that man was tempted by the earth and realised it, succumbed to it, and thus sin was born.

[Tyr-risuur]

You can't choose your beliefs. I can believe in the Christian god as much as I can believe I am an invisible pink unicorn. Grace? Faith? Saved by grace and faith? I cannot believe in God. I cannot believe in Jesus. I cannot be saved. Some are arbitrarily saved by "grace" of gullibility and/or chance. Some are arbitrarily damned by "grace" of intellect and/or chance. How in all this is God just?

I can choose my beliefs. I've changed them several times, because I believe something for a time before my mind rules it out for some reason and then leads me to believe in somethings else.
I used to be athiest, and thought I never could believe in a God like Jehova, but all I did was try to understand him more, and I changed my mind. You can choose your beliefs, and I have chosen.

Can you choose to honestly believe that God doesn't exist than choose to believe he does at a moments notice? Sure beliefs change over time as we get older and attain new information - correct or otherwise - but I'm talking about conciously changing your own beliefs. I can't conciously choose to believe I'm an invisible pink unicorn because everything points towards me not being one so why would I believe I am?

*edit: If I attained new info that pointed towards me being an invisible pink unicorn that appeared true enough for me to believe it, it would be impossible for me to believe otherwise.

[The Un-believers]

If your God is omniscient, then why does he need to test us? He already knows who will fail and pass this "test".

"God moves in mysterious ways"

or another workable theory

The test is not for him, but for us, it is so we may know if we are worthy.

But my point is that he already knows who is worthy or not. Being that he is said to be omniscient. And I never said the test was for him.

[St George of England]

that is ignorance...a thing that leads to suffering...

So, according to your holy book, anyone who doesn't accept Jesus into their heart, even the people who have never heard of Jesus or Yahweh, will burn in hell......Wow, Yahweh is a dick. I don't want to be in his ass-kissing Heaven.
Assuming Heaven exists

Depends on the translation/version/testament. OT god, the omnipotent, war-like god, was all very "And the blahblah-inites came upon the lands of Israel and God delivered them upon the Jews" Whereas NT God is a wuss, basically.

And there's my woefully inaccurate, half-drunken ramblings on the Bible.

[Galloism]

that is ignorance...a thing that leads to suffering...

So, according to your holy book, anyone who doesn't accept Jesus into their heart, even the people who have never heard of Jesus or Yahweh, will burn in hell......Wow, Yahweh is a dick. I don't want to be in his ass-kissing Heaven.
Assuming Heaven exists

I'm sure you can back that up with scripture.

Sure, a lot of churches teach it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's in the bible.

[GeneralHaNor]

"God moves in mysterious ways"

or another workable theory

The test is not for him, but for us, it is so we may know if we are worthy.

But my point is that he already knows who is worthy or not. Being that he is said to be omniscient. And I never said the test was for him.

If we hold this above statement to be true, then the test is purely for your knowledge, and not his.
He's grading you.

[Mosasauria]

You make my point precisely, General. Heaven is hypothetical.

As is most of science and atheistic theories.

[Austin Setzer]

uh i THINK i might have found something important to this arguement
From the book : freemasonry and its ancient mystic rites. "Shri Krishna, speaking as the supreme in the bhagava Gita says 'Even those who worship other gods with devotion, full of faith- they also worship me"