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Can atheists go to Heaven?

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Urcea
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Postby Urcea » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:35 pm

In Roman Catholic beliefs, yes, absolutely.
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Der Teutoniker
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Postby Der Teutoniker » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:35 pm

Power and Stability wrote:
The Canadian Pacific wrote:No.
a. Nothing can go to an imaginary place.

Remeber, it's assuming God is real, and a Heaven and Hell exist.


Some kids here have a problem with hypotheticals, or answering a question as it's asked, rather than as they would percieve the question to be in reality.
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Power and Stability
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Postby Power and Stability » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:35 pm

New Amerik wrote:
Power and Stability wrote:Then if that's true, was the bible lying?


The Bible is old, and has been translated and rewritten many times. Look at modern Internet translators today, and the fact that even though God may have written the Bible, men still translated it, and tell me that the Bible today has the exact same messages as it did when it was first written.

Then, because of how many times the bible has been translated, most of it's original message has been corrupted
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Sungai Pusat
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Postby Sungai Pusat » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:37 pm

If what you said on your friend saying that atheists or any non-believer of christianility says that even if anyone is good or not, they'll go to Hell and supposing that God, Heaven and Hell exists, then yes, God might have just concentrated on Ghandi being Hindu. :P

Then again, if there was such things as a God, Heaven or Hell, I'd be a Christian long long time ago.
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Der Teutoniker
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Postby Der Teutoniker » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:37 pm

Urcea wrote:In Roman Catholic beliefs, yes, absolutely.


Explain.

According to Roman Catholics, does not one need to be a baptized, confirmed, and believing Roman Catholic to go to Heaven? I, as a non-denominational Christian who follows the teachings of Jesus am doomed to Hell according to Catholic doctrine because a guy in a funny hat didn't wash my scalp.
South Lorenya wrote:occasionally we get someone who has a rap sheet longer than Jormungandr

Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.

ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.

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Austin Setzer
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Postby Austin Setzer » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:37 pm

As i said last time NONE OF US KNOW THE answer for SURE.if the bible said that we should follow no one WE WOULD PROBABLY DO THAT. People that discover the different religons of the world may find that nearly EVERY one of them is based on paper or claims. We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.
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Barringtonia
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Postby Barringtonia » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:37 pm

Power and Stability wrote:
New Amerik wrote:Heh, I just realized something!

Jesus said that the only way to get into Heaven was through him. Now, as we all know through cartoons and popular conceptions, Saint Peter waits at the Pearly Gates to let people into Heaven. And Jesus was a pretty liberal dude.

So...what if Heaven was like a night club? Once you die, you have to wait in line, and if Saint Peter (the bouncer) judges you ethically (not morally( good enough, you get in. Doesn't matter what beliefs, you get in.

But Jesus is a rebel, man. He says that the only way into Heaven is through him. Yet it's Saint Peter (the bouncer) who decides who gets in and who doesn't. So how can Jesus say that the only way to Heaven is through him?

Well, maybe he meant to say that the only SURE route to Heaven is through him. While everyone else is waiting outside to be judged by the bouncer, everyone who believes in Jesus fully and utterly can bypass him and go through the back entrance. If anyone tries and stops them, Jesus can just say, "Nah, it's cool, my dad (Yaweh) runs this place."

So if you're Christian and you're down with Jesus, free pass in. Everyone else can get in, but they have to be ethically good enough to qualify.

.....which is still pretty depressing when you think about it.

Heaven is a nightclub?! :blink:


Heaven was one of the very first dedicated techno nightclubs in London, owned by Richard Branson it was quite notorious as well as famous for it's gay nights on Thursdays, this must have been the early 90's.
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Der Teutoniker
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Postby Der Teutoniker » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:40 pm

Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.


That's not how that happened.
South Lorenya wrote:occasionally we get someone who has a rap sheet longer than Jormungandr

Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.

ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.

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Power and Stability
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Postby Power and Stability » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:40 pm

Barringtonia wrote:
Power and Stability wrote:Heaven is a nightclub?! :blink:


Heaven was one of the very first dedicated techno nightclubs in London, owned by Richard Branson it was quite notorious as well as famous for it's gay nights on Thursdays, this must have been the early 90's.

:lol2:
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Urcea
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Postby Urcea » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:40 pm

Der Teutoniker wrote:
Urcea wrote:In Roman Catholic beliefs, yes, absolutely.


Explain.

According to Roman Catholics, does not one need to be a baptized, confirmed, and believing Roman Catholic to go to Heaven?


No. This is where the entire belief of purgatory and "Faith and Good Works" comes in. Salvation does not come by faith alone. Frankly, it's hypocritical for those who believe in a Christian-only heaven; if a righteous man of, say, Islam, lives out his life in a faithful way, follows God's law, helps the needy and the sick and shelters the poor - is this man not deserving of paradise? Salvation by Faith Alone is rubbish, but Faith is generally a good thing - less time in purgatory and all that.
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New Amerik
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Postby New Amerik » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:40 pm

Power and Stability wrote:
New Amerik wrote:
The Bible is old, and has been translated and rewritten many times. Look at modern Internet translators today, and the fact that even though God may have written the Bible, men still translated it, and tell me that the Bible today has the exact same messages as it did when it was first written.

Then, because of how many times the bible has been translated, most of it's original message has been corrupted


Exactly. However accurate the bible is in it's modern form today compared to when the first words of the messages that would one day coalesce into what we know of now as the Bible, it is ludicrous to believe that they are exactly the same.

Unless we were to find the first forms of the Bible and try our damn best to translate it, I don't know that we can rely on it's saying fully. Did Jesus really say the only way to heaven was through him, and no one else decided to throw it in to make a comforting statement somewhere at a weak point in Christianity? Were there always ten commandments that said what they say in the King James version?
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Postby Pirateera » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:41 pm

Barringtonia wrote:Heaven was one of the very first dedicated techno nightclubs in London, owned by Richard Branson it was quite notorious as well as famous for it's gay nights on Thursdays, this must have been the early 90's.


Did they let in the nonbelievers?
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Prennsland
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Postby Prennsland » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:41 pm

I believe in heaven. I also believe in what the bible has to say. The bible says that without Jesus, one can't make it to heaven. Also, atheists don't believe in heaven, so why would they even worry about going there? There is no correct answer. If you believe in god, and believe the bible, No, atheists can't go to heaven. If you're an atheist, you believe that neither heaven nor god are real, and evidently that is he were real, he would be an ego stroking dick not to let you into heaven. If you believe in god and Jesus, but not in everything the bible has to say, the answer may be yes.

I personally don't know why god would let people into heaven who don't believe in it's existence, nor do I think he would let people into heaven who think that he's a dick not to let them in, when a set of instructions clearly say what to do to get in. It's not like the bible's a secret or anything, you either read it and believe it, or don't.

---What's above is opinion, and obviously not fact.
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Urcea
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Postby Urcea » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:41 pm

Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.


That was to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
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Der Teutoniker
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Postby Der Teutoniker » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:42 pm

Urcea wrote:No. This is where the entire belief of purgatory and "Faith and Good Works" comes in. Salvation does not come by faith alone. Frankly, it's hypocritical for those who believe in a Christian-only heaven; if a righteous man of, say, Islam, lives out his life in a faithful way, follows God's law, helps the needy and the sick and shelters the poor - is this man not deserving of paradise? Salvation by Faith Alone is rubbish, but Faith is generally a good thing - less time in purgatory and all that.


That's right. I keep forgetting that the Catholics made up Purgatory for this. I thought everyone went to purgatory for at least a little while right? A couple hundred thousand years or so on average?
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Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.

ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.

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Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:42 pm

Lyoneau wrote:God is merciful....

Say what?
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Urcea
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Postby Urcea » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:43 pm

Der Teutoniker wrote:
Urcea wrote:No. This is where the entire belief of purgatory and "Faith and Good Works" comes in. Salvation does not come by faith alone. Frankly, it's hypocritical for those who believe in a Christian-only heaven; if a righteous man of, say, Islam, lives out his life in a faithful way, follows God's law, helps the needy and the sick and shelters the poor - is this man not deserving of paradise? Salvation by Faith Alone is rubbish, but Faith is generally a good thing - less time in purgatory and all that.


That's right. I keep forgetting that the Catholics made up Purgatory for this. I thought everyone went to purgatory for at least a little while right? A couple hundred thousand years or so on average?


"Made up" is a little subjective. No, not everyone spends time in purgatory, and no, time there cannot be quantified, just as time in heaven or hell cannot be quantified.
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Der Teutoniker
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Postby Der Teutoniker » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:44 pm

Urcea wrote:That was to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.


:)

I sigged it.
South Lorenya wrote:occasionally we get someone who has a rap sheet longer than Jormungandr

Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.

ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.

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Postby New Kereptica » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:44 pm

Prennsland wrote:I personally don't know why god would let people into heaven who don't believe in it's existence


It's childish?

"Oh, I created everything, and everything necessarily happens because I will it, but you guys get tortured indefinitely because you didn't believe in me."

That's the kind of thing I'd expect from a six-year-old.
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New Amerik
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Postby New Amerik » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:44 pm

Pirateera wrote:
Barringtonia wrote:Heaven was one of the very first dedicated techno nightclubs in London, owned by Richard Branson it was quite notorious as well as famous for it's gay nights on Thursdays, this must have been the early 90's.


Did they let in the nonbelievers?


Yes, but they didn't get the special discount on hot wings and beer the believers did.
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Postby Greater Tezdrian » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:44 pm

Der Teutoniker wrote:
Urcea wrote:No. This is where the entire belief of purgatory and "Faith and Good Works" comes in. Salvation does not come by faith alone. Frankly, it's hypocritical for those who believe in a Christian-only heaven; if a righteous man of, say, Islam, lives out his life in a faithful way, follows God's law, helps the needy and the sick and shelters the poor - is this man not deserving of paradise? Salvation by Faith Alone is rubbish, but Faith is generally a good thing - less time in purgatory and all that.


That's right. I keep forgetting that the Catholics made up Purgatory for this. I thought everyone went to purgatory for at least a little while right? A couple hundred thousand years or so on average?

Do not forget that babies also go to purgatory. At least, until someone said that out loud, thought "What the fuck?" and the Pope got rid of it.
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Postby Khazmatistan » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:45 pm

Xarithis wrote:
Khazmatistan wrote:They go to Hell, as stated by the oldest theologians who answered the question.

It's unfair, yes.

Yes, I have heard such from a few overzealous family members. But I reject the notion that the Abrahamic God is so malevolent

Read the Old Testament.

Jesus can be a dick, too. There was one passage where he refused to heal a Gentile until his apostles told him not to be a dick.

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Whether you like it or not, it's in there.
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Der Teutoniker
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Postby Der Teutoniker » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:46 pm

Urcea wrote:"Made up" is a little subjective. No, not everyone spends time in purgatory, and no, time there cannot be quantified, just as time in heaven or hell cannot be quantified.


Fine, Catholics invented purgatory (no one who wrote the Bible did, in any case). I had heard from history professors that indulgences were sold to reduce your own, or loved one's time in purgatory, donation amounts yielded set amounts of less time in purgatory.

How could time not be quantified? I can count the first bazillion years of eternity, even though it will go on forever, I can still quantify it somewhat.
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Austin Setzer wrote:We found a couple of ancient documents, turned them into the bible, and now its the symbol of christianity.

ARM Forces wrote:Strep-throat is an infection in the throat, caused by eating too much refined sugar! Rubbing more sugar directly on it is the worst thing you can possibly do.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Communism and anarchy; same unachievable end, different impractical means.

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Teccor
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Postby Teccor » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:47 pm

Third Mexican Empire wrote:This applies not only to atheists, but any other believer to a non-christian faith.

I was having a chat with my friend(he's highly religious), and he told me that if "you don't have God in your heart, you'll go to Hell. No matter if you're good or not." I was thinking about, and well, it just doesn't make sense.. Take Gandhi for example. He was a leading figure in non-violent resistance. He protected the poor and stood up for their civil rights. When you think of peace, many people think of him. But he was Hindu. When he died, did God completely ignore evrything good Gandhi did, and focus on him being Hindu? No matter how good you are, if you're not Christian you'll go to Hell? Is that right NSG?

I'm sorry if I offened anyone, that is the last thing I wanted to do. This is not meant to be a flaming contest, so please, keep it clean.

NOTE:This is assuming God is real, and that a Heaven and Hell exist

My personal opinion: Yes, they can.

If an Atheist lives a righteous life and never hurts others, I think they should be able to go. In Catholicism, the "Righteous Pagans" (AKA Pagans, atheists, unbaptized children, ect.) were only put in "Limbo", not true hell. I believe that anyone who lives a righteous and good life, and doesn't outwardly hate anything, deserves heaven.

Just like I believe a bible-beater who is hateful, evil and cruel deserves hell.

Heaven or Hell is based on deeds, not words or titles.
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Urcea
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Postby Urcea » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:47 pm

Greater Tezdrian wrote:
Der Teutoniker wrote:
That's right. I keep forgetting that the Catholics made up Purgatory for this. I thought everyone went to purgatory for at least a little while right? A couple hundred thousand years or so on average?

Do not forget that babies also go to purgatory. At least, until someone said that out loud, thought "What the fuck?" and the Pope got rid of it.


That's limbo. That's completely different, and also non-extant; purgatory is more of a "road to heaven", while the concept of limbo is more of a "hah, well, shit out of luck buddy" - it's kind of like hell except not as bad, but it's permanent. Purgatory is not permanent; if you go to purgatory, you're pretty pleased - it means you're going to heaven.

Let it just be noted Limbo was never part of actual Church doctrine, just an idea proliferated by theologians.
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