End of Porsche

[Neu Leonstein]

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,636813,00.html

At the moment I only have this article in German, once I become aware of an English I'll post it. Anyways, here's the story:

For years Porsche has been the most profitable car company per unit in the world. They made genuinely excellent cars, had efficient production methods and some of the world's best engineers and thanks to good marketing were able to sell these cars for a shitload of money. Some of that was invested into making their cars even better, the rest was saved up. Meanwhile, VW was in trouble. Some bad models and high labour costs (which Porsche could take due to the higher price of their cars) saw them losing money and entrenched management (in particular the unions which usually sit on the board of big German companies) made it difficult to react.

So Wendelin Wiedeking, the CEO of Porsche, convinced his superiors (the Porsche and Piech families, which hold the majority of voting shares in the two firms thanks to their shared history) to try and use Porsche's spare cash to buy VW. Of course it wasn't quite enough, so they took on big loans to do it, but that was fine because interest rates were low, refinancing was easily available and the world was working just fine on debt.

You can imagine where this is going: after a saga involving more finance than engineering, Porsche looks set to fail. Qatar wants a stake in a merged entity, and it now looks as though VW will take over Porsche and integrate it into the firm's branding structure, directly alongside VW itself, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini etc. No word yet on what that means for the engineering department of Porsche, and hence for the cars themselves and the competition between some of those brands. Wiedeking looks set to be booted out after being everyone's favourite only a couple of months ago and having been that for years.

So what do you think this will mean for the future of the luxury- and performance car markets?

[Dinaverg]

...Will they still go 'vroom vroom'?

[Maurepas]

Meh, VW makes good cars, good for them...

I would never be able to afford a Porsche anyway,

[Cannot think of a name]

Porsche and Volkswagen have always been closely related, I don't see yet another slight shuffle of that relationship as equaling "the end of Porsche." Maybe we'll get something like the 914 again, which for a while was their best selling model. Porsche makes most of its money of engineering consulting.

[Grave_n_idle]

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,636813,00.html

At the moment I only have this article in German, once I become aware of an English I'll post it. Anyways, here's the story:

For years Porsche has been the most profitable car company per unit in the world. They made genuinely excellent cars, had efficient production methods and some of the world's best engineers and thanks to good marketing were able to sell these cars for a shitload of money. Some of that was invested into making their cars even better, the rest was saved up. Meanwhile, VW was in trouble. Some bad models and high labour costs (which Porsche could take due to the higher price of their cars) saw them losing money and entrenched management (in particular the unions which usually sit on the board of big German companies) made it difficult to react.

So Wendelin Wiedeking, the CEO of Porsche, convinced his superiors (the Porsche and Piech families, which hold the majority of voting shares in the two firms thanks to their shared history) to try and use Porsche's spare cash to buy VW. Of course it wasn't quite enough, so they took on big loans to do it, but that was fine because interest rates were low, refinancing was easily available and the world was working just fine on debt.

You can imagine where this is going: after a saga involving more finance than engineering, Porsche looks set to fail. Qatar wants a stake in a merged entity, and it now looks as though VW will take over Porsche and integrate it into the firm's branding structure, directly alongside VW itself, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini etc. No word yet on what that means for the engineering department of Porsche, and hence for the cars themselves and the competition between some of those brands. Wiedeking looks set to be booted out after being everyone's favourite only a couple of months ago and having been that for years.

So what do you think this will mean for the future of the luxury- and performance car markets?

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I'm having difficulty caring about the fate of Porshe. I am willing to keep an open mind however if anybody can convince me that Porshe automobiles are anything more than overvalued cult objects.

[Cannot think of a name]

Besides, it's not like being acquired by VW 'ended' Lamborghini or Bentley.

[Maurepas]

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

Yeah, thats what Im saying, id take a Jetta that only cost me an arm and a leg over a Porsche that costs me my heart and lungs any day, ...

[Grave_n_idle]

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

Yeah, thats what Im saying, id take a Jetta that only cost me an arm and a leg over a Porsche that costs me my heart and lungs any day, ...

I need a car. A car, of some sort, is necessary... for work, for functioning in a modern economy.

So - what i need is reasonable reliability, reasonable wear, and reasonable fuel efficiency.

I don't need to be able to hit 180 on a straight road. I don't need luxury fittings and fixtures.


So - when I look at equations that basically come down to: "I can buy car A, or car B and a house", I'm the sort of person that gives the bulk of my attention to car B.

[Greed and Death]

the question is will I still be able to maintenance and parts for my Porsche

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

Yeah, thats what Im saying, id take a Jetta that only cost me an arm and a leg over a Porsche that costs me my heart and lungs any day, ...

I need a car. A car, of some sort, is necessary... for work, for functioning in a modern economy.

So - what i need is reasonable reliability, reasonable wear, and reasonable fuel efficiency.

I don't need to be able to hit 180 on a straight road. I don't need luxury fittings and fixtures.


So - when I look at equations that basically come down to: "I can buy car A, or car B and a house", I'm the sort of person that gives the bulk of my attention to car B.

Same here, but i'll add versatility to that equation:

Reliability, Economy, Versatility.

[Grave_n_idle]

Same here, but i'll add versatility to that equation:

Reliability, Economy, Versatility.

Versatility is nice, but I consider it more of a benefit, than a feature (that's my marketing lecturer speaking). I can live without versatility, but I need the fuel efficiency and the reliability.

But - maybe that's just me.

[Maurepas]

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

Yeah, thats what Im saying, id take a Jetta that only cost me an arm and a leg over a Porsche that costs me my heart and lungs any day, ...

I need a car. A car, of some sort, is necessary... for work, for functioning in a modern economy.

So - what i need is reasonable reliability, reasonable wear, and reasonable fuel efficiency.

I don't need to be able to hit 180 on a straight road. I don't need luxury fittings and fixtures.


So - when I look at equations that basically come down to: "I can buy car A, or car B and a house", I'm the sort of person that gives the bulk of my attention to car B.

Thats what Im saying exactly, only I used a sort of joke metaphor,

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Same here, but i'll add versatility to that equation:

Reliability, Economy, Versatility.

Versatility is nice, but I consider it more of a benefit, than a feature (that's my marketing lecturer speaking). I can live without versatility, but I need the fuel efficiency and the reliability.

But - maybe that's just me.

Well, it's a balancing trick, really. Generally speaking, the more of one you get, the less of the other two. An SUV has great versatility, but terrible economy. A Prius has tremendous economy, but when you have 3 kids and an active outdoor lifestyle, it's a bit lacking. Also generally speaking, the more versatile or hybrid vehicles tend to be more complex and more expensive to repair should they need fixing. Lately I've been eyeing the Honda Element. If it had about 5 more MPG or so or a $3000 lower pricetag, I'd be sold.

[Chrobalta]

You know who makes real high quality cars? Volvo, those damn things are the toughest most reliable things I have ever seen.

[Sibirsky]

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,636813,00.html

At the moment I only have this article in German, once I become aware of an English I'll post it. Anyways, here's the story:

For years Porsche has been the most profitable car company per unit in the world. They made genuinely excellent cars, had efficient production methods and some of the world's best engineers and thanks to good marketing were able to sell these cars for a shitload of money. Some of that was invested into making their cars even better, the rest was saved up. Meanwhile, VW was in trouble. Some bad models and high labour costs (which Porsche could take due to the higher price of their cars) saw them losing money and entrenched management (in particular the unions which usually sit on the board of big German companies) made it difficult to react.

So Wendelin Wiedeking, the CEO of Porsche, convinced his superiors (the Porsche and Piech families, which hold the majority of voting shares in the two firms thanks to their shared history) to try and use Porsche's spare cash to buy VW. Of course it wasn't quite enough, so they took on big loans to do it, but that was fine because interest rates were low, refinancing was easily available and the world was working just fine on debt.

You can imagine where this is going: after a saga involving more finance than engineering, Porsche looks set to fail. Qatar wants a stake in a merged entity, and it now looks as though VW will take over Porsche and integrate it into the firm's branding structure, directly alongside VW itself, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini etc. No word yet on what that means for the engineering department of Porsche, and hence for the cars themselves and the competition between some of those brands. Wiedeking looks set to be booted out after being everyone's favourite only a couple of months ago and having been that for years.

So what do you think this will mean for the future of the luxury- and performance car markets?

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

What about the people making those cars?

[Greed and Death]

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

Yeah, thats what Im saying, id take a Jetta that only cost me an arm and a leg over a Porsche that costs me my heart and lungs any day, ...

I need a car. A car, of some sort, is necessary... for work, for functioning in a modern economy.

So - what i need is reasonable reliability, reasonable wear, and reasonable fuel efficiency.

I don't need to be able to hit 180 on a straight road. I don't need luxury fittings and fixtures.


So - when I look at equations that basically come down to: "I can buy car A, or car B and a house", I'm the sort of person that gives the bulk of my attention to car B.

I don't know if a person can afford option A, they likely don't want the house that comes with Option B.

[Sibirsky]

I find it diffficult to care. Luxury cars are, almost by definition, unnecessary.

Yeah, thats what Im saying, id take a Jetta that only cost me an arm and a leg over a Porsche that costs me my heart and lungs any day, ...

I need a car. A car, of some sort, is necessary... for work, for functioning in a modern economy.

So - what i need is reasonable reliability, reasonable wear, and reasonable fuel efficiency.

I don't need to be able to hit 180 on a straight road. I don't need luxury fittings and fixtures.


So - when I look at equations that basically come down to: "I can buy car A, or car B and a house", I'm the sort of person that gives the bulk of my attention to car B.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But there are others who would pick car A. Nothing wrong with that either.

[Sibirsky]

the question is will I still be able to maintenance and parts for my Porsche

Yes, you're Porsche will be ok. What kind you got? I have never owned one. My cousin has a Cayenne.

[Western Mercenary Unio]

You know who makes real high quality cars? Volvo, those damn things are the toughest most reliable things I have ever seen.

Swedish cars? As a Finn, I have to hate on everything Swedish. Even if it's good.

[Maurepas]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But there are others who would pick car A. Nothing wrong with that either.

Idk, if they can afford to buy a car that is expensive enough to pay housing costs...

there may be something wrong with that....

[Greed and Death]

the question is will I still be able to maintenance and parts for my Porsche

Yes, you're Porsche will be ok. What kind you got? I have never owned one. My cousin has a Cayenne.

right now I own a 1953 Porsche 356 Roadster. In the morning when the last of my Pain medications wears off it will be a pinto.

[Sibirsky]

You know who makes real high quality cars? Volvo, those damn things are the toughest most reliable things I have ever seen.

And for the longest time they were owned by Ford. Kind of makes you question the whole Fix Or Repair Daly or Found On the Road Dead jokes, doesn't it? I love Ford. Most of all for taking all of $0.00 from the U.S. Government.

[Maurepas]

You know who makes real high quality cars? Volvo, those damn things are the toughest most reliable things I have ever seen.

Swedish cars? As a Finn, I have to hate on everything Swedish. Even if it's good.

Really? I thought Scandinavians were real friendly with eachother...

We used to do that to Canada and Mexico....then they started building all the "American" stuff...

[Sibirsky]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But there are others who would pick car A. Nothing wrong with that either.

Idk, if they can afford to buy a car that is expensive enough to pay housing costs...

there may be something wrong with that....

Why? The only way there is something wrong with that is if they use ill gotten gains to pay for it. If the money is legit, what do you care how much they spend on a car? What are acceptable amounts then to spend on a new or used car and why?