NationStates

Jordaxia wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:

Satellite Indoslavokia wrote:And what would you consider a school ran by a religious institution but doesn't push their religious views?

Unlikely.

I, personally, would wonder why they're going to the expense of running a school that doesn't benefit them.

Why does anyone donate to charity? Other than a tax deduction, it doesn't help them at all.

Krypton-Zod wrote:

Lancaster of Wessex wrote:

Surote wrote:Do you think it's good to send your kid to a religous schools and would you do it?

I think to many people brainwash there kids and I would never do that to my child.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6865just in case you want to see

"Brainwashing?" Is that what non-religious folks have taken to calling people of faith? Come on.

If responsible, normal, religious individuals want to send their child to a school that happens to teach their religious view point in a responsible, non-radicalized, otherwise normal school environment, then yes.

What's the problem? They're not harming you in any way.

Teaching kids to believe in things that do not exist is child abuse. This 'god' does not exist and the one described in the 'bible' is quite the mass murderer and psychopath.

This whole bogus idea that 'religions' are special is what needs culling first.

You believe that it doesn't exist. Why does the fact that you believe it make it a fact? Same here... the fact that I believe in a God and in the Bible doesn't make it a fact. However, you can't automatically rule it child-abuse just because you don't believe in it. That makes no sense.

Also, Grave_n_idle, a few pages back you posted that the Bible says to indoctrinate children, this makes them conformitive adults. (Or something like that. ;-P ) Could you enlighten me on where it says that?

Well, I live in an area where Catholic schools are gov't funded and I'm Catholic. Admittedly, the quality of teachers in the Catholic system is horrible although I guess for the elementary grades would probably be good to instill the values into them.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:

Surote wrote:Do you think it's good to send your kid to a religous schools and would you do it?

I think to many people brainwash there kids and I would never do that to my child.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6865just in case you want to see

Even if I were Catholic, the nearest Catholic school is probably the foulest nest of drugs and debauchery in the area. No, that's not enough to sell me on it.

Little Goofball starts 2nd grade this September and I intend to continue supplementing his and my younger children's educations myself despite the outrageous suggestion by his 1st grade teacher last hear that I not so my son doesn't get too far ahead. Can you believe that shit?!?

Tell her that holding back is for pussies and commies.

Satellite Indoslavokia wrote:Why does anyone donate to charity? Other than a tax deduction, it doesn't help them at all.

charitable donations are usually relatively small investments. an entire educational facility, the maintainance of it, the paying of all the staff, I find it difficult to ascribe purely altruistic notions to anyone who takes that cost, but I would find it easier to believe that a single person would take that burden without any anticipated return than a religious organisation, given one person making a selfless decision happens more often than an entire organisation deciding to do so.

East Luisa wrote:Also, Grave_n_idle, a few pages back you posted that the Bible says to indoctrinate children, this makes them conformitive adults. (Or something like that. ;-P ) Could you enlighten me on where it says that?

Allow me to do this in two stages.

There is context:

Proverbs 22:15 "Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. "

and Proverbs 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame."

and Deuteronomy 11:19 "And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."

The lesson is that - if you do NOT raise your child, they will tend towards foolishness and shame. There is also the specific imprecation to raise your child in a certain way (look at the context of Deuteronomy 11, to see what this 'way' is).


But the specific verse I was referring to, is Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Jordaxia wrote:

Satellite Indoslavokia wrote:Why does anyone donate to charity? Other than a tax deduction, it doesn't help them at all.

charitable donations are usually relatively small investments. an entire educational facility, the maintainance of it, the paying of all the staff, I find it difficult to ascribe purely altruistic notions to anyone who takes that cost, but I would find it easier to believe that a single person would take that burden without any anticipated return than a religious organisation, given one person making a selfless decision happens more often than an entire organisation deciding to do so.

I am sure the homeless shelters opened by the Lutheran church down the road also forces the homeless to believe in their religion or listen to religious sermons and such before they can get in..

Id send my child to a school with religion different from my own, so he can see multiple sides of life.

I'm not generally going to get all hopped up about which school somebody else sends their kid too. I do like the idea of religious schools, Montessori schools, parochial schools, whatever-the-hell kind of schools in addition to the public schools because personally, I like to have alternatives.

If I ran a religious school, I would refuse to take any kind of government money to help run it, though.

Wilgrove wrote:

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:

Surote wrote:Do you think it's good to send your kid to a religous schools and would you do it?

I think to many people brainwash there kids and I would never do that to my child.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6865just in case you want to see

Even if I were Catholic, the nearest Catholic school is probably the foulest nest of drugs and debauchery in the area. No, that's not enough to sell me on it.

Little Goofball starts 2nd grade this September and I intend to continue supplementing his and my younger children's educations myself despite the outrageous suggestion by his 1st grade teacher last hear that I not so my son doesn't get too far ahead. Can you believe that shit?!?

Tell her that holding back is for pussies and commies.

And that is the NICEST thing you can say about them. Me, I was reading at 4, and in the first grade corrected the teacher on the length of the year (365 1/4 days, not 365). It didn't do much to endear me to my teacher of course.

Grave_n_idle wrote:

East Luisa wrote:Also, Grave_n_idle, a few pages back you posted that the Bible says to indoctrinate children, this makes them conformitive adults. (Or something like that. ;-P ) Could you enlighten me on where it says that?

Allow me to do this in two stages.

There is context:

Proverbs 22:15 "Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. "

and Proverbs 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame."

and Deuteronomy 11:19 "And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."

The lesson is that - if you do NOT raise your child, they will tend towards foolishness and shame. There is also the specific imprecation to raise your child in a certain way (look at the context of Deuteronomy 11, to see what this 'way' is).


But the specific verse I was referring to, is Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

I present myself as living proof that Proverbs 22:6 is wrong,

Big Jim P wrote:Me, I was reading at 4, and in the first grade corrected the teacher on the length of the year (365 1/4 days, not 365). It didn't do much to endear me to my teacher of course.

You were one of those guys who ran around telling everyone that the 21st century started in 2001, and not in 2000, "because there's no Year Zero, you know" weren't you?

I would, but only to a school that promoted my religious beliefs--"agnosticism". I wonder if those exist?

*googles*

Holy shit, guys, you can send your kids to those for FREE!

Heinleinites wrote:

Big Jim P wrote:Me, I was reading at 4, and in the first grade corrected the teacher on the length of the year (365 1/4 days, not 365). It didn't do much to endear me to my teacher of course.

You were one of those guys who ran around telling everyone that the 21st century started in 2001, and not in 2000, "because there's no Year Zero, you know" weren't you?

Me?

Ryadn wrote:I would, but only to a school that promoted my religious beliefs--"agnosticism". I wonder if those exist?

*googles*

Holy shit, guys, you can send your kids to those for FREE!

What are those?

Down here, those dont exist...You can pay to have your kid sent to a church, or you can go to a church dominated school for free,

Grave_n_idle wrote:

East Luisa wrote:Also, Grave_n_idle, a few pages back you posted that the Bible says to indoctrinate children, this makes them conformitive adults. (Or something like that. ;-P ) Could you enlighten me on where it says that?

Allow me to do this in two stages.

There is context:

Proverbs 22:15 "Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. "

and Proverbs 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame."

and Deuteronomy 11:19 "And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."

The lesson is that - if you do NOT raise your child, they will tend towards foolishness and shame. There is also the specific imprecation to raise your child in a certain way (look at the context of Deuteronomy 11, to see what this 'way' is).


But the specific verse I was referring to, is Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

The first two are rather irrelevant, both referring to the cliche, "Spare the rod, spoil the child."
Deuteronomy only refers to teaching your kid, doesn't say what. 22:6 is the same way; could be referring to showing him the path back to your house. :-P In any case, they don't tell you to indoctrinate your kid, nor do they come across as saying, "Indoctrinate your kid so he grows up to become a good little Jesus munchkin."

Maurepas wrote:

Ryadn wrote:I would, but only to a school that promoted my religious beliefs--"agnosticism". I wonder if those exist?

*googles*

Holy shit, guys, you can send your kids to those for FREE!

What are those?

Down here, those dont exist...You can pay to have your kid sent to a church, or you can go to a church dominated school for free,

Reason #5 I couldn't live in the deep South.

Dinaverg wrote:
I went to a Montessorri school at that age so, uh, neener neener nee-ner.

I went to a Montessori kindergarten. I think it was nice enough, but I don't exactly remember it well.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Little Goofball starts 2nd grade this September and I intend to continue supplementing his and my younger children's educations myself despite the outrageous suggestion by his 1st grade teacher last hear that I not so my son doesn't get too far ahead. Can you believe that shit?!?

Now I don't want to get off on a rant here, but...

Unfortunately, from my experience as both a student who "got too far ahead" and a teacher, it's a very common position for teachers to take.

In my first year of teaching (which just ended... a month ago), I had some enormously talented, brilliant and energetic students that threw me for a loop. Had they all been on that level, it might have been easier, but it's difficult to engage and teach 20 children at the same time when some of them are reading chapbooks and some of them still can't write their names. The school curriculum provides very little help---their "challenge" work is usually about a centimeter above the "normal" work. The whole of the public education system is designed to get the lowest-performing students to a certain level, to the great detriment of students working far beyond their peers.

The answer to this, of course, is not to chide parents for feeding their child's appetite for learning, but to work WITH parents to combine resources and try to keep lessons in the class and at home on the same level. It can be difficult without the help of the child's parents, but with them, it can make things easier and more rewarding for teacher and student. And it keeps accelerated students out of trouble a lot better than "busywork".

The problem is compounded by the fact that teachers (at least in my district) aren't allowed to use textbooks from higher grade levels. One of my kindergartners was doing 2nd grade math at home, so I asked the office for second and third grade math books. I was taken to task for it, told it would make things harder for the kid's future teachers, and instructed to just "use the challenge work provided". I ended up just buying commercial workbooks from higher grades and making up my own problems and projects.

/rant

Ryadn wrote:

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Little Goofball starts 2nd grade this September and I intend to continue supplementing his and my younger children's educations myself despite the outrageous suggestion by his 1st grade teacher last hear that I not so my son doesn't get too far ahead. Can you believe that shit?!?

Now I don't want to get off on a rant here, but...

Unfortunately, from my experience as both a student who "got too far ahead" and a teacher, it's a very common position for teachers to take.

In my first year of teaching (which just ended... a month ago), I had some enormously talented, brilliant and energetic students that threw me for a loop. Had they all been on that level, it might have been easier, but it's difficult to engage and teach 20 children at the same time when some of them are reading chapbooks and some of them still can't write their names. The school curriculum provides very little help---their "challenge" work is usually about a centimeter above the "normal" work. The whole of the public education system is designed to get the lowest-performing students to a certain level, to the great detriment of students working far beyond their peers.

The answer to this, of course, is not to chide parents for feeding their child's appetite for learning, but to work WITH parents to combine resources and try to keep lessons in the class and at home on the same level. It can be difficult without the help of the child's parents, but with them, it can make things easier and more rewarding for teacher and student. And it keeps accelerated students out of trouble a lot better than "busywork".

The problem is compounded by the fact that teachers (at least in my district) aren't allowed to use textbooks from higher grade levels. One of my kindergartners was doing 2nd grade math at home, so I asked the office for second and third grade math books. I was taken to task for it, told it would make things harder for the kid's future teachers, and instructed to just "use the challenge work provided". I ended up just buying commercial workbooks from higher grades and making up my own problems and projects.

/rant

"THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else."

And they say that Harrison Bergeron is just fiction.

I will never send my children to a religious school. I actually love my children.

Maurepas wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:

East Luisa wrote:Also, Grave_n_idle, a few pages back you posted that the Bible says to indoctrinate children, this makes them conformitive adults. (Or something like that. ;-P ) Could you enlighten me on where it says that?

Allow me to do this in two stages.

There is context:

Proverbs 22:15 "Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. "

and Proverbs 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame."

and Deuteronomy 11:19 "And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."

The lesson is that - if you do NOT raise your child, they will tend towards foolishness and shame. There is also the specific imprecation to raise your child in a certain way (look at the context of Deuteronomy 11, to see what this 'way' is).


But the specific verse I was referring to, is Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

I present myself as living proof that Proverbs 22:6 is wrong,

I, also. But I think we are both aware that we are likely to be more of the exception than the rule.

East Luisa wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:

East Luisa wrote:Also, Grave_n_idle, a few pages back you posted that the Bible says to indoctrinate children, this makes them conformitive adults. (Or something like that. ;-P ) Could you enlighten me on where it says that?

Allow me to do this in two stages.

There is context:

Proverbs 22:15 "Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. "

and Proverbs 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame."

and Deuteronomy 11:19 "And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."

The lesson is that - if you do NOT raise your child, they will tend towards foolishness and shame. There is also the specific imprecation to raise your child in a certain way (look at the context of Deuteronomy 11, to see what this 'way' is).


But the specific verse I was referring to, is Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

The first two are rather irrelevant, both referring to the cliche, "Spare the rod, spoil the child."
Deuteronomy only refers to teaching your kid, doesn't say what. 22:6 is the same way; could be referring to showing him the path back to your house. :-P In any case, they don't tell you to indoctrinate your kid, nor do they come across as saying, "Indoctrinate your kid so he grows up to become a good little Jesus munchkin."

I explained why the first two were not irrelevant, and then I pointed out that the context of Deuteronomy does (ratehr explicitly) 'say what' to teach.

I'm sorry, I made a mistake - I thought your question was genuine, and that you would appreciate a small amount of effort on my part.

I might, if only because the private (and nominally religious) schools here are generally of better quality than public schools.

Hamilay wrote:I might, if only because the private (and nominally religious) schools here are generally of better quality than public schools.

In this part of Georgia, even the non-religious schools are religious. You have the choice of 'non-religious' religious schools, or cult schools.