Ye Olde US Midterm Elections Thread (With Extra Vitimins)

[Yootwopia]

Are you... serious? You don't know what I'm "on about" when I point out the differences between a 50 year old country that had been an empire the previous decade and one that's been a Democracy for over two centuries?

Wow... just... wow.

Eeeeh to be fair, the incorporated states of Germany And That Whole Area have basically had the same language and all the rest for as long as the United States has existed, and was mainly made a customs union only about twenty years after the US was formed. Just to contribute to this enoooormous threadjack (also, as I'm sure Panzerjaeger will doubtless concede, it was illegal to vote SPD for quite a lot of the history of the German Empire).

[Greed and Death]

Democrats have 50 seats in the senate so no chance of the GOP taking the senate.

[Belschaft]

It's true, Tacitus once said that the more corrupt a state, the more numerous its laws. There's certainly plenty that could be done to make it a better system, but I don't think "no one votes" is really going to be the answer.

Hmm only white land owning males should vote, above the age of 25. *NOD*

Nah, we should restrict it to British Citizens by the name of James Alexander Rathbone

Tis all for the best.

[Wilgrove]

Democrats have 50 seats in the senate so no chance of the GOP taking the senate.

I still say the Democrats should sit back and do nothing for the next two years. Let the Pubs in the house run things, and when they screw up again (and they will), then they'll win in 2012.

[Melkor Unchained]

Are you... serious? You don't know what I'm "on about" when I point out the differences between a 50 year old country that had been an empire the previous decade and one that's been a Democracy for over two centuries?

Wow... just... wow.

I got this one. See, it all comes down to relatives.

Germany, is a lot older than the U.S.. The Holy Roman Empire was from hundreds of years before the U.S., in fact.

As a result, while 50 years wasn't enough time for Germany to change it's psyche, a few weeks will be even more potent for Americans because of our shorter history.

I uh... I think this kind of undermines your point if I'm understanding it correctly. Basically what I was saying (and you've nicely reinforced) is that the German people have/had a much more autocratic tradition than America. What was done in the early part of the last century in Germany is probably not going to be replicated in America any time soon, barring a major disaster.

[Yootwopia]

I dunno, I think things would probably go a lot better in the states if you chaps weren't constantly electing people or voting for propositions and other such things that generally just seem to be a pointless faff.

It's true, Tacitus once said that the more corrupt a state, the more numerous its laws.

Hmmm I'm not entirely sure I agree with him.

There's certainly plenty that could be done to make it a better system, but I don't think "no one votes" is really going to be the answer.

Weeell yeah, quite.

[Panzerjaeger]

Are you... serious? You don't know what I'm "on about" when I point out the differences between a 50 year old country that had been an empire the previous decade and one that's been a Democracy for over two centuries?

Wow... just... wow.

Eeeeh to be fair, the incorporated states of Germany And That Whole Area have basically had the same language and all the rest for as long as the United States has existed, and was mainly made a customs union only about twenty years after the US was formed. Just to contribute to this enoooormous threadjack (also, as I'm sure Panzerjaeger will doubtless concede, it was illegal to vote SPD for quite a lot of the history of the German Empire).

Of course I concede that I just find that I must be failing at making my point. Which was one doesn't have to care for a right to vote in order to exploit it.

[Greed and Death]

Democrats have 50 seats in the senate so no chance of the GOP taking the senate.

I still say the Democrats should sit back and do nothing for the next two years. Let the Pubs in the house run things, and when they screw up again (and they will), then they'll win in 2012.

You mean have the democrats rubber stamp everything?

[Aubelland]

I still say the Democrats should sit back and do nothing for the next two years. Let the Pubs in the house run things, and when they screw up again (and they will), then they'll win in 2012.

You mean have the democrats rubber stamp everything?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lame_duck_ ... ted_States)

[Geniasis]

I uh... I think this kind of undermines your point if I'm understanding it correctly. Basically what I was saying (and you've nicely reinforced) is that the German people have/had a much more autocratic tradition than America. What was done in the early part of the last century in Germany is probably not going to be replicated in America any time soon, barring a major disaster.

The other part of the problem is that my argument makes perfect sense...

...but only in Sanskrit for some inexplicable reason.

[Wilgrove]

I still say the Democrats should sit back and do nothing for the next two years. Let the Pubs in the house run things, and when they screw up again (and they will), then they'll win in 2012.

You mean have the democrats rubber stamp everything?

No...just do....nothing. Come in, sit at the desk and do nothing. If the American people truly thinks the Republicans are the best choice, then well let them have a Republican controlled Congress.

[Tahar Joblis]

You mean have the democrats rubber stamp everything?

No...just do....nothing. Come in, sit at the desk and do nothing. If the American people truly thinks the Republicans are the best choice, then well let them have a Republican controlled Congress.

Except the American People (TM) don't. It's just that most of them didn't vote tonight.

[Greed and Death]

You mean have the democrats rubber stamp everything?

No...just do....nothing. Come in, sit at the desk and do nothing. If the American people truly thinks the Republicans are the best choice, then well let them have a Republican controlled Congress.

With out the rubber stamping nothing gets past. you need a majority to pass bills.

[Farnhamia]

It's true, Tacitus once said that the more corrupt a state, the more numerous its laws. There's certainly plenty that could be done to make it a better system, but I don't think "no one votes" is really going to be the answer.

Do we really need an election every two years? Why not scale it back to four years?

No. The point of having the House elected every two years is to make that house more responsive to the people. Senators serve for six years and that chamber is meant to be a brake on the more volatile House. The system really isn't broken, I see no reason to "fix" by having fewer chances for the people to express their will in whom they elect.

[Melkor Unchained]

It's not hard, I've already explained it twice. Hitler could do things to/with the German people because of the cultural and political differences between them and present-day Americans. What was possible then isn't possible now because of said differences. Germany was in an entirely different situation in the early part of the 20th century than America is in this one.

Which has nothing to do with the original question about caring about a person's right to vote? You don't have to care it isn't required. You just need to rouse the rabble to vote for you that doesn't mean you care one lick for that right to maintain power.

Might want to reread the exchange, in that case. You start with "Why do I have to believe in someone's right to vote," to which I responded that doing so is basically a necessity in American politics. You then Godwinn'd the thread and ignore my repeated pointing out of the fact that Americans are not Germans and it is not 1920.

As for the underlined (which I take to be your main point) I get what you're saying, but if you never meant to apply it to American politics in a practical sense I didn't know that. On an abstract level you're probably right, but it's not going to work like that in all situations and I think this is one of them.

[Wilgrove]

No...just do....nothing. Come in, sit at the desk and do nothing. If the American people truly thinks the Republicans are the best choice, then well let them have a Republican controlled Congress.

Except the American People (TM) don't. It's just that most of them didn't vote tonight.

Source?

[Wilgrove]

No...just do....nothing. Come in, sit at the desk and do nothing. If the American people truly thinks the Republicans are the best choice, then well let them have a Republican controlled Congress.

With out the rubber stamping nothing gets past. you need a majority to pass bills.

*shrugs* We're going to be in a gridlock anyways, so might as well. For once Democrats need to have the balls.

[Idaho Conservatives]

Looks like the Republicans won in Idaho... again.

[Allrule]

Looks like the Republicans won in Idaho... again.

I'm shocked, I tell you! SHOCKED!
What an upset!
[/end sarcasm]

[New Manvir]

Except the American People (TM) don't. It's just that most of them didn't vote tonight.

Source?

It is a Mid-term, they usually have a much lower turnout.

[Panzerjaeger]

Which has nothing to do with the original question about caring about a person's right to vote? You don't have to care it isn't required. You just need to rouse the rabble to vote for you that doesn't mean you care one lick for that right to maintain power.

Might want to reread the exchange, in that case. You start with "Why do I have to believe in someone's right to vote," to which I responded that doing so is basically a necessity in American politics. You then Godwinn'd the thread and ignore my repeated pointing out of the fact that Americans are not Germans and it is not 1920.

As for the underlined (which I take to be your main point) I get what you're saying, but if you never meant to apply it to American politics in a practical sense I didn't know that. On an abstract level you're probably right, but it's not going to work like that in all situations and I think this is one of them.

I apologize then I am obviously not making my points very clear then. Oh well I should be reading for a Psych Quiz anyways.

[Farnhamia]

Here's one for you. John Hickenlooper, the Mayor of Denver, has been elected Governor in a three-way race with Dan Maes the Republican nominee and Tom Tancredo the nominee of the American Constitution Party. Hickenlooper got 50%, Tancredo 37% and right now Maes has 11%. The Republican mainstream bailed out on Maes, who won the primary, and tried desperately to get him to withdraw. He refused and if his numbers dip below 10%, which is quite possible, the Republican Party in Colorado is reduced to a "minor party." A few years ago the Republicans and, I'm ashamed to say, the Democrats in the Colorado legislature conspired to make it very hard for a "minor party" to raise funds and campaign in the state. Does this come under "Petard, Hoist On One's Own"?

[Greed and Death]

With out the rubber stamping nothing gets past. you need a majority to pass bills.

*shrugs* We're going to be in a gridlock anyways, so might as well. For once Democrats need to have the balls.

Then the democrats get the blame because they have 2/3's control of the government (not counting the courts).

[WorldofWilly]

Democrats have 50 seats in the senate so no chance of the GOP taking the senate.

I still say the Democrats should sit back and do nothing for the next two years. Let the Pubs in the house run things, and when they screw up again (and they will), then they'll win in 2012.

You are clueless Darell Issa will be the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. He will have subpoena power all he will have to do is subpoena Eric Holder on things like the Black Panther voter intimidation and then have fox news amplify everything by 1000x. Have Fox news and talk radio make the people believe the failing economy is a Marxist conspiracy to destroy America. If the Republicans play these next two years right in coordination with fox news and talk radio the dems do not have a chance. Repubs just need to find a problem amplify it with conservative news and tie it all into some conspiracy to destroy America. It will be game over for the Dems for generations if republicans play the fear and conspiracy card right.

[Nazi Flower Power]

It's not hard, I've already explained it twice. Hitler could do things to/with the German people because of the cultural and political differences between them and present-day Americans. What was possible then isn't possible now because of said differences. Germany was in an entirely different situation in the early part of the 20th century than America is in this one.

I think the economic problems and the fact that the Allies were badgering Germany non-stop about reparations had more to do with it than German culture or tradition. Of course, it still wasn't anything like the present day U.S.