New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

[Sibirsky]

Paul Ryan has a plan. How much reading do you all want to do? The full report is 86 pages and the summary is 3.

Full report http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Summary http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2008pressreleases/RoadmapSummary.pdf

[Sibirsky]

Paul Ryan has a plan. How much reading do you all want to do? The full report is 86 pages and the summary is 3.

Full report http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Summary http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2008pressreleases/RoadmapSummary.pdf

To be fair, I question some of his claims. Mainly the claims that his plan makes Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security PERMANENTLY solvent.

[Gift-of-god]

Paul Ryan has a plan. How much reading do you all want to do? The full report is 86 pages and the summary is 3.

Full report http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Summary http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2008pressreleases/RoadmapSummary.pdf

Please quote the relevant text.

[Ashmoria]

Paul Ryan has a plan. How much reading do you all want to do? The full report is 86 pages and the summary is 3.

Full report http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Summary http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2008pressreleases/RoadmapSummary.pdf

To be fair, I question some of his claims. Mainly the claims that his plan makes Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security PERMANENTLY solvent.

yup thats a plan. the standard republican plan of having the govt pay insurance company premiums.

do you like this plan?

[Sibirsky]

Paul Ryan has a plan. How much reading do you all want to do? The full report is 86 pages and the summary is 3.

Full report http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Summary http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2008pressreleases/RoadmapSummary.pdf

To be fair, I question some of his claims. Mainly the claims that his plan makes Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security PERMANENTLY solvent.

yup thats a plan. the standard republican plan of having the govt pay insurance company premiums.

do you like this plan?

If the numbers are correct it is better than the House plan. I have no verifying either set of numbers. The CBO did the House numbers and they're not good. I doubt they did anything with this plan.

[Gift-of-god]

If the numbers are correct it is better than the House plan. I have no verifying either set of numbers. The CBO did the House numbers and they're not good. I doubt they did anything with this plan.

Which numbers are those?

[The_pantless_hero]

If the numbers are correct it is better than the House plan. I have no verifying either set of numbers. The CBO did the House numbers and they're not good. I doubt they did anything with this plan.

Which numbers are those?

Likely ones found on the back of a fortune cookie.

[Sibirsky]

If the numbers are correct it is better than the House plan. I have no verifying either set of numbers. The CBO did the House numbers and they're not good. I doubt they did anything with this plan.

Which numbers are those?

Their projections of the cost of the programs, budget, and so on. He's still a politician. I have a hard time trusting them.

[Sibirsky]

If the numbers are correct it is better than the House plan. I have no verifying either set of numbers. The CBO did the House numbers and they're not good. I doubt they did anything with this plan.

Which numbers are those?

Likely ones found on the back of a fortune cookie.

For all I know they are just as accurate.

[Gift-of-god]

If the numbers are correct it is better than the House plan. I have no verifying either set of numbers. The CBO did the House numbers and they're not good. I doubt they did anything with this plan.

Which numbers are those?

Their projections of the cost of the programs, budget, and so on. He's still a politician. I have a hard time trusting them.

I read the report quickly. There were almost no numbers in it. Can you please quote the relevant numbers or give me the page numbers where he shows his numbers?

[Surote]

Universal healthcare all the way

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8287

[Gift-of-god]

If the numbers are correct it is better than the House plan. I have no verifying either set of numbers. The CBO did the House numbers and they're not good. I doubt they did anything with this plan.

Which numbers are those?

Their projections of the cost of the programs, budget, and so on. He's still a politician. I have a hard time trusting them.

You should distrust them. This is the conclusion of his roadmap:

In modeling and analyzing the Roadmap proposal, CBO found that it was fiscally sustainable and economically beneficial. CBO’s account, delivered to the Ranking Member of the Committee on the Budget on 19 May 2008, included the following statement: “The target path provided by the committee staff would be economically sustainable. . . . The economy would be considerably stronger under the target path than it would be under the Alternative Fiscal Scenario. By 2060 (the last year for which it is possible to simulate the effects of the alternative fiscal policy using the textbook growth model), real GNP per person under the target path would be about 85 percent higher than that under the Alternative Fiscal Scenario.”
(Letter from CBO Director Peter R. Orszag to Congressman Ryan, 19 May 2008)

Such stunning praise by such a respected official whose job it is to analyse these things! I found that letter, by the way:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/92xx/doc9216 ... o-Ryan.pdf

Oddly enough, it seems to be missing the very text that Mr. Ryan is quoting.

[Grave_n_idle]

Yes, the US wastes billions of $ on welfare a year. Half of the people on welfare are just bums who do not want to work but instead get payed by the government to sit around all day.

Half the people that have jobs are just bums that don't want to work, but instead get paid by some company to sit around all day.

[Muravyets]

Paul Ryan has a plan. How much reading do you all want to do? The full report is 86 pages and the summary is 3.

Full report http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Summary http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2008pressreleases/RoadmapSummary.pdf

FINALLY! Thank you. Took you frigging long enough.

Ryan's plan is definitely a plan and alternative to Obama's.

I hate it. Although it meets the alternative plan criterion, I do not believe it meets the BETTER alternative criterion that you said your alternatives would. All this is, is a few ideas for health care reform that are also being worked into Obama's plan plus a pastiche of standard Republican pet projects such as privatizing Social Security. It's a pork barrel bill but it's party pork instead of state or county pork. The only legitimate health care reform suggestion in it Health Care Savings Accounts, but I am very skeptical of those being anything but a fancy way for government to abandon the problem altogether by fobbing it off on the private sector. Also, I am unclear as to Ryan's notions regarding his proposed tax credit and the payment for his new Medicare plan -- is he telling me that I will get in my income tax refund an amount that will max out at $2500 a year to cover all of my medical expenses? Is that per tax payer or per payer and payer's dependents? And is the $9500 Medicare payment annual or a one time sum? How is that tax "refundable tax credit" going to be adjusted for income?

You finally, after way too much attention and pressure on my part, came up with an alternative plan. However, I do not believe it will be better that the very flawed plan Obama is selling, so I'll pass on it. Thanks anyway.

[Grave_n_idle]

And I notice you had to rely on 2002 numbers. What's the matter, can't keep up the facade of your "the private sector cures all ills" fiction when the economy is as bad as it is and the rest of the private sector slumps along with you?

And that, right there, is the ultimate argument.

'Charity' fails at the point when it is MOST needed.

[Muravyets]

You should distrust them. This is the conclusion of his roadmap:

In modeling and analyzing the Roadmap proposal, CBO found that it was fiscally sustainable and economically beneficial. CBO’s account, delivered to the Ranking Member of the Committee on the Budget on 19 May 2008, included the following statement: “The target path provided by the committee staff would be economically sustainable. . . . The economy would be considerably stronger under the target path than it would be under the Alternative Fiscal Scenario. By 2060 (the last year for which it is possible to simulate the effects of the alternative fiscal policy using the textbook growth model), real GNP per person under the target path would be about 85 percent higher than that under the Alternative Fiscal Scenario.”
(Letter from CBO Director Peter R. Orszag to Congressman Ryan, 19 May 2008)

Such stunning praise by such a respected official whose job it is to analyse these things! I found that letter, by the way:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/92xx/doc9216 ... o-Ryan.pdf

Oddly enough, it seems to be missing the very text that Mr. Ryan is quoting.

Hahaha! Nice! So after all this hunting, Sibirsky can only come up with an outline of the usual Republican wish list points that is so lacking as a viable plan for health care that its author and sponsor has to lie about its bona fides.

I was right -- there is more credible evidence for the existence of Bigfoot than for a viable free market health care plan.

[Sibirsky]

Yes, the US wastes billions of $ on welfare a year. Half of the people on welfare are just bums who do not want to work but instead get payed by the government to sit around all day.

Half the people that have jobs are just bums that don't want to work, but instead get paid by some company to sit around all day.

That is entirely that company's problem. Not the taxpayers. And that company's customers of course. I hope I;m not one of them.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Paul Ryan has a plan. How much reading do you all want to do? The full report is 86 pages and the summary is 3.

Full report http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Summary http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2008pressreleases/RoadmapSummary.pdf

To be fair, I question some of his claims. Mainly the claims that his plan makes Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security PERMANENTLY solvent.

Well, since the subject is Healthcare I'll level my criticisms at that;

I'm not convinced that spending taxpayer money by essentially giving it to private insurance companies is any better an option than the government running it's own insurance plan. A private company's goal is to make as much profit as the market can bear, whether that be by charging as much as the market can tolerate or dropping potentially expensive 'customers' in order to reduce outgoing expenditures. I don't see anything changing simply because the government will give $2500 worth of tax money to those companies for each individual in the US. On the other hand, a government plan has no such profit-based motive. Therefore, it will either cost us less or at the very least provide a more stable and complete product without the threat of being dropped for the sake of profit.

[Grave_n_idle]

Yes, the US wastes billions of $ on welfare a year. Half of the people on welfare are just bums who do not want to work but instead get payed by the government to sit around all day.

Half the people that have jobs are just bums that don't want to work, but instead get paid by some company to sit around all day.

That is entirely that company's problem. Not the taxpayers. And that company's customers of course. I hope I;m not one of them.

And?

Someone was wailing about how unemployed people don't really NEED help, they're just lazy bums. Some lazy bums have really good benefits packages... some of them don't.

[Sibirsky]

I believe the $2500 tax credit is for private insurance only. If you have no insurance and you have a $2000 procedure done you paid for it. No tax credit. That's the way I understand it. So if you want "free" healthcare you have to buy insurance that is, at most, $208.33/month.

[Gift-of-god]

I believe the $2500 tax credit is for private insurance only. If you have no insurance and you have a $2000 procedure done you paid for it. No tax credit. That's the way I understand it. So if you want "free" healthcare you have to buy insurance that is, at most, $208.33/month.

What do you base this interpretation on?

And I would like to see a source on that $208.33 a month.

[Sibirsky]

I believe the $2500 tax credit is for private insurance only. If you have no insurance and you have a $2000 procedure done you paid for it. No tax credit. That's the way I understand it. So if you want "free" healthcare you have to buy insurance that is, at most, $208.33/month.

What do you base this interpretation on?

And I would like to see a source on that $208.33 a month.

$208.33/month is the $2500 annual tax credit/12 months.

[Gift-of-god]

I believe the $2500 tax credit is for private insurance only. If you have no insurance and you have a $2000 procedure done you paid for it. No tax credit. That's the way I understand it. So if you want "free" healthcare you have to buy insurance that is, at most, $208.33/month.

What do you base this interpretation on?

And I would like to see a source on that $208.33 a month.

$208.33/month is the $2500 annual tax credit/12 months.

I see. What's the average cost in the US right now for a single person getting themselves insurance?

[Galloism]

I see. What's the average cost in the US right now for a single person getting themselves insurance?

Depends on the terms and the company.

[Sibirsky]

I see. What's the average cost in the US right now for a single person getting themselves insurance?

I have no clue. It's a lot more than $2500 I know that. I could get "free" healthcare under this plan. My parents, they can get $5000 off tops. They're not healthy or young enough to be able to get a $5000 plan.