NATION

PASSWORD

New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Sonnveld
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 109
Founded: Apr 17, 2006
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Sonnveld » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:00 am

[rolling eyes] If this thread was on Digg, I think "These comments suck" would fit right in here.

Okay, so let's see…boy, what a piece of work this is.
First of all, the health insurance industry is one of only TWO industries that are not subject to the anti-trust law: professional baseball is the other one. That I can live with because life can be maintained if baseball is a giant monopoly.

Second of all…the health insurance industry has been utilizing discriminatory practices that would get them sued off the face of the planet if it happened in any other service-oriented industry. One of the bigwigs from Cigna just came out and said Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" hit the nail on the head and the industry actively worked to discredit and cover it up to save their own vampiric asses. Never mind that at a moral level, the CEOs were corrupt as a week-old corpse in the Louisiana swamps, gleaning profits off the suffering of the people they wind up kicking to the curb. And eating their power lunches with gold-plated flatware. You want to talk about ivory towers? I'm sure they'd build those too if it weren't internationally illegal — and the Conservatives would *still* defend their right to do so. [rolling eyes, pt. II]

Thirdly — those guys are running a Ponzi scheme. They hand-pick their clientele, fleece 'em for hundreds apiece month after month, then should their clients actually need to collect it is granted grudgingly at best — and then either dropped like a lump of semi-congealed lava or the premium is jacked so high as to force the claimant into bankruptcy (the rate of medical-related bankruptcies in this country hovers somewhere between 50% and 75%, depending on who you ask). The Goblins in Harry Potter aren't as greedy.

Health insurance agents and pencil-pushers forced out of business? Good, they mooorrrrrrrrrre than had it coming. Welcome to the rest of the world, ice-hole.
But that's neither here nor there. The current public option being discussed won't put anyone out of work.

Go ahead. Give your Internet Asperger's Syndrome a run around the track and tell me those who lost their jobs and those who can't afford health insurance deserve to die in the streets. It's the 21st Century, not 1800s London, but here we are, losing one fellow American every five minutes because they can't afford either the premiums or the deductibles or are shown the door on account of pre-existing conditions. Call ourselves a civilized country?

[taking breath]
OK, I've read a few pages past the first page. Which really frosted my cake and inspired the above rant. Let me elucidate from a less angry stance…

I can't comment on the lethality of pelvic fractures in the elderly, but I can offer two equally-serious medical scenarios that happened in real life.
Story 1:
A few years ago, on Christmas Eve, my mother suffered a heart attack. She came into my room and told me, and I called 9-1-1. They were there five minutes later. She was under anaesthesia and being operated on an hour later. This is California, where every citizen in the state has to carry health insurance by mandate of Governor Schwarzenegger.

Story 2:
I live in Oregon. I was down at Mom's for the holiday.
Anyway, I lost my California health insurance when I moved to Oregon, and since I was overweight I couldn't get health insurance here. So shortly after I moved here, I started producing stools with blood in them. The doctors said it was celiac disease, stop eating nuts and whole grains. Stopped, kept getting sick. It's colitis, drink more water. Insurance industry saw a colitis diagnosis and wouldn't touch me. Drank lots of water, kept getting sick. Damn, colitis won't go away. Finally met a doctor that had the backbone to scope me and whaddaya know? It's Stage III colorectal cancer that'd been growing for about five years.
Short story: I qualified for the local hospital and cancer clinic's indigence allowance and my cancer surgery, treatment and hospital stay were forgiven. I figure I costed the taxpayers of Oregon about $50,000, which sucks. But if the health insurance industry hadn't practiced exclusionary policies and accepted everyone, regardless of health history, it would have been taken care of.

Let's look at America. 305 million people. Let's say all of those people throw $1-2 a day into a central pot for health care. Do the math and see how much that'd be over a year's time. Federal employees pay $75/month for their health coverage. Yep, your mail carrier's a stinking pinko, mmm-hmmmm. When's the last time you saw a USPS delivery person goose-stepping through their daily schedule?
Last edited by Sonnveld on Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.28

User avatar
Treznor
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7343
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Treznor » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:41 am

greed and death wrote:The party Whip tried that. Then threatened to cut off their funds for reelection.

Then the blue dogs reminded the party whip they are largely in contested districts so without funds they are giving the seats to the republican party. And to drive home the point the blue dogs have elected not to put any funds into the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm? ... E6FB9129B8

Given that they vote like Republicans, we may as well be honest about it and let the Republicans have those seats. Better yet, replace these assholes with proper progressives, but even if that's not possible I join the call to get the lying Blue Dogs out.

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:47 am

Treznor wrote:
greed and death wrote:The party Whip tried that. Then threatened to cut off their funds for reelection.

Then the blue dogs reminded the party whip they are largely in contested districts so without funds they are giving the seats to the republican party. And to drive home the point the blue dogs have elected not to put any funds into the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm? ... E6FB9129B8

Given that they vote like Republicans, we may as well be honest about it and let the Republicans have those seats. Better yet, replace these assholes with proper progressives, but even if that's not possible I join the call to get the lying Blue Dogs out.


A quick look at their districts shows that progressives would not win there. For the most part you are either deal with the blue dogs, or deal with the republicans.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Muravyets
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12755
Founded: Aug 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:51 am

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Until 'No Child Left Behind' when the federal government set requirements on the state's education requirements and then withdrew the funds they promised the states to help them meet those requirements so instead of more children meeting minimum education standards, you have education standards lowering to meet the requirements.

This is what happens when the government mandates the states to do something without providing the ability to do so.

Now in the case of Healthcare, my biggest problem with public systems in each state instead of one federal system is that each state would have their own legislatures voting on what would and wouldn't be covered. Now I don't know if you oticed, but we have some real wackos in state legislatures. We'll get states that don't cover birth control pills and states that don't cover abortions and states that don't cover HIV treatments and medications and all sorts of wackiness like that. I think it's amazing that the people who don't want politicians running healthcare are often the most likely to use their own political agenda to dictate the terms of it.

This is an extremely good point. I withdraw my support for the amendment to that effect.
Kick back at Cafe Muravyets
And check out my other RP, too. (Don't take others' word for it -- see for yourself. ;) )
I agree with Muravyets because she scares me. -- Verdigroth
However, I am still not the topic of this thread.

User avatar
Muravyets
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12755
Founded: Aug 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:53 am

Ryadn wrote:
Muravyets wrote:That entire Congress sold out this country. If I'd had my way, not one of them would be in politics now. The fact that many got reelected makes me despair of Americans.


Hey, hey, hey! Don't be so hasty. There would be ONE still in politics---Barbara Lee. She did Cali proud.

All right, all right. But I'd make them all line up and account for their votes at that time, with the bouncers standing by.
Kick back at Cafe Muravyets
And check out my other RP, too. (Don't take others' word for it -- see for yourself. ;) )
I agree with Muravyets because she scares me. -- Verdigroth
However, I am still not the topic of this thread.

User avatar
Eugene Zolo
Envoy
 
Posts: 331
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Eugene Zolo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:55 am

Ryadn wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:
The_pantless_hero wrote:Neither is not providing education, police, or military protection.


If I throw a brick at your head the police are there to arrest me. Because I have violated your rights. The police exist to prevent me from doing that. Not that'd I ever do it, it's just an example.


So if you throw a brick at my head, my tax dollars go toward the police that arrest you... but not towards any of the stitches to close the gash in my head?


Actually he would be probably be forced to pay for the stitches to close the gash in your head.

User avatar
Treznor
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7343
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Treznor » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:37 am

greed and death wrote:
Treznor wrote:
greed and death wrote:The party Whip tried that. Then threatened to cut off their funds for reelection.

Then the blue dogs reminded the party whip they are largely in contested districts so without funds they are giving the seats to the republican party. And to drive home the point the blue dogs have elected not to put any funds into the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm? ... E6FB9129B8

Given that they vote like Republicans, we may as well be honest about it and let the Republicans have those seats. Better yet, replace these assholes with proper progressives, but even if that's not possible I join the call to get the lying Blue Dogs out.


A quick look at their districts shows that progressives would not win there. For the most part you are either deal with the blue dogs, or deal with the republicans.

Then let the seats go to the Republicans. At least let them be honest about what they're voting for.

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:39 am

Treznor wrote:
greed and death wrote:
Treznor wrote:Given that they vote like Republicans, we may as well be honest about it and let the Republicans have those seats. Better yet, replace these assholes with proper progressives, but even if that's not possible I join the call to get the lying Blue Dogs out.


A quick look at their districts shows that progressives would not win there. For the most part you are either deal with the blue dogs, or deal with the republicans.

Then let the seats go to the Republicans. At least let them be honest about what they're voting for.

Then the republicans have a majority in the house and health care is put off.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Treznor
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7343
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Treznor » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:41 am

greed and death wrote:
Treznor wrote:
greed and death wrote:A quick look at their districts shows that progressives would not win there. For the most part you are either deal with the blue dogs, or deal with the republicans.

Then let the seats go to the Republicans. At least let them be honest about what they're voting for.

Then the republicans have a majority in the house and health care is put off.

Health care is put off anyway because of the Blue Dogs. Let the nation see who is denying them the help they need instead of smoothing it over in the name of "bipartisanship."

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:43 am

Treznor wrote:
greed and death wrote:
Treznor wrote:Then let the seats go to the Republicans. At least let them be honest about what they're voting for.

Then the republicans have a majority in the house and health care is put off.

Health care is put off anyway because of the Blue Dogs. Let the nation see who is denying them the help they need instead of smoothing it over in the name of "bipartisanship."

The districts the blue dogs are from seem to not want nationally socialized health care. So I guess it would go over pretty well.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Sibirsky » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:55 am

Face it, I could have linked to anything and Muravyets would have shot it down as not a plan. What is so special about healthcare? How is it different from food, clothes and shelter? Other basic needs are met through the private sector.

We can all agree the the biggest problem is rapidly rising costs. That is the issue we need to address. And, we do not agree about the cause of the rapidly rising costs. You already know my opinion so I'll leave it out.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
Ryadn
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8028
Founded: Sep 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ryadn » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:08 pm

Sibirsky wrote:Face it, I could have linked to anything and Muravyets would have shot it down as not a plan. What is so special about healthcare? How is it different from food, clothes and shelter? Other basic needs are met through the private sector.

We can all agree the the biggest problem is rapidly rising costs. That is the issue we need to address. And, we do not agree about the cause of the rapidly rising costs. You already know my opinion so I'll leave it out.


I don't agree that the "biggest" issue is rapidly rising costs. Am I pissed off about spending a quarter of my net pay on health care? Hell yes. But I'm more upset that there are people who can't take their kids to the doctor because a quarter of their pay isn't enough.
"I hate you! I HATE you collectivist society. You can't tell me what to do, you're not my REAL legitimate government. As soon as my band takes off, and I invent a perpetual motion machine, I am SO out of here!" - Neo Art

"But please, explain how a condom breaking is TOTALLY different from a tire getting blown out. I mean, in one case, a piece of rubber you're relying on to remain intact so that your risk of negative consequences won't significantly increase breaks through no inherent fault of your own, and in the other case, a piece of rubber you're relying on to remain intact so that your risk of negative consequences won't significantly increase breaks through no inherent fault of your own." - The Norwegian Blue

User avatar
Surote
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1928
Founded: May 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Surote » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:22 pm

Ryadn wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:Face it, I could have linked to anything and Muravyets would have shot it down as not a plan. What is so special about healthcare? How is it different from food, clothes and shelter? Other basic needs are met through the private sector.

We can all agree the the biggest problem is rapidly rising costs. That is the issue we need to address. And, we do not agree about the cause of the rapidly rising costs. You already know my opinion so I'll leave it out.


I don't agree that the "biggest" issue is rapidly rising costs. Am I pissed off about spending a quarter of my net pay on health care? Hell yes. But I'm more upset that there are people who can't take their kids to the doctor because a quarter of their pay isn't enough.


Thank you someone who understands
Last edited by Surote on Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Sibirsky » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:34 pm

Ryadn wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:Face it, I could have linked to anything and Muravyets would have shot it down as not a plan. What is so special about healthcare? How is it different from food, clothes and shelter? Other basic needs are met through the private sector.

We can all agree the the biggest problem is rapidly rising costs. That is the issue we need to address. And, we do not agree about the cause of the rapidly rising costs. You already know my opinion so I'll leave it out.


I don't agree that the "biggest" issue is rapidly rising costs. Am I pissed off about spending a quarter of my net pay on health care? Hell yes. But I'm more upset that there are people who can't take their kids to the doctor because a quarter of their pay isn't enough.


Well if healthcare costs were not rising three times faster than incomes for the past 40 years than perhaps a quarter of those people's pay would be enough. Perhaps it's no longer the biggest issue. The biggest issue is the number of uninsured. But it arose because of the rapidly rising costs.

And a quarter of your pay for healthcare is too much. I don;t care how much you make, it's too much to spend.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
Muravyets
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12755
Founded: Aug 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:35 pm

Sibirsky wrote:Face it, I could have linked to anything and Muravyets would have shot it down as not a plan.

Why not test that by posting an actual plan and see what I do? One of your own non-plan links offers you a hint. Try reading it.

What is so special about healthcare? How is it different from food, clothes and shelter? Other basic needs are met through the private sector.

So funny that you mention those particular basic needs, because those are also met by the public sector as well as the private, just as many of us would like health care to be. Well, whaddya know? They are the same, after all. They ALL get met by the public sector.

We can all agree the the biggest problem is rapidly rising costs. That is the issue we need to address. And, we do not agree about the cause of the rapidly rising costs. You already know my opinion so I'll leave it out.
Kick back at Cafe Muravyets
And check out my other RP, too. (Don't take others' word for it -- see for yourself. ;) )
I agree with Muravyets because she scares me. -- Verdigroth
However, I am still not the topic of this thread.

User avatar
Surote
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1928
Founded: May 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Surote » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:45 pm

What is so special about healthcare? How is it different from food, clothes and shelter? Other basic needs are met through the private sector.


Healthcare is different cause it's preety much your life line and since everyone can't afford food,clothes and shelter they probably(mostly lower class) use most of there money on those and can't afford healthcare so before you hate universal healthcare think of the lower class children the future of america.

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:31 am

Surote wrote:
What is so special about healthcare? How is it different from food, clothes and shelter? Other basic needs are met through the private sector.


Healthcare is different cause it's preety much your life line and since everyone can't afford food,clothes and shelter they probably(mostly lower class) use most of there money on those and can't afford healthcare so before you hate universal healthcare think of the lower class children the future of america.

And we have programs to help them. And charities as well. And I would say food is a more urgent need except for cases of emergency.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
Opola
Diplomat
 
Posts: 962
Founded: Jun 18, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Opola » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:12 am

Yes, the US wastes billions of $ on welfare a year. Half of the people on welfare are just bums who do not want to work but instead get payed by the government to sit around all day.
United Federation of Sovereign Nations Member
Founder of the Original AMO
Party in control of Opola: Conservative Centrist Party

User avatar
Muravyets
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12755
Founded: Aug 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:17 am

Sibirsky wrote:And we have programs to help them. And charities as well. And I would say food is a more urgent need except for cases of emergency.

How much money do you donate to charities?
Kick back at Cafe Muravyets
And check out my other RP, too. (Don't take others' word for it -- see for yourself. ;) )
I agree with Muravyets because she scares me. -- Verdigroth
However, I am still not the topic of this thread.

User avatar
The Tofu Islands
Minister
 
Posts: 2872
Founded: Mar 24, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby The Tofu Islands » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:36 am

Opola wrote:Yes, the US wastes billions of $ on welfare a year.

I wouldn't exactly call it a waste...

Opola wrote:Half of the people on welfare are just bums who do not want to work but instead get payed by the government to sit around all day.

I'm sure you have an impeccable and indisputable source for this, which you accidentally forgot to post, and are perfectly willing to give.


As for the main thread, I don't think the current proposals go far enough. But oh well.
Last edited by The Tofu Islands on Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:38 am

Muravyets wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:And we have programs to help them. And charities as well. And I would say food is a more urgent need except for cases of emergency.

How much money do you donate to charities?


Me personally? That amount varies greatly. Currently, not much at all as I am struggling financially. In 2006, by far my best year, thousands. Before that 2001 was my highest. But I am just a drop in a bucket aren't I?

As a group, in 2002 we (Americans) donated almost $241 billion. Certainly no chump change.

http://www.zambian.com/bethel/orphanage ... stics.html
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:39 am

The Tofu Islands wrote:
Opola wrote:Yes, the US wastes billions of $ on welfare a year.

I wouldn't exactly call it a waste...

Opola wrote:Half of the people on welfare are just bums who do not want to work but instead get payed by the government to sit around all day.

I'm sure you have an impeccable and indisputable source for this, which you accidentally forgot to post, and are perfectly willing to give.


As for the main thread, I don't think the current proposals go far enough. But oh well.


Ever heard of welfare fraud? I would call money paid to those people, waste. I think he goes further than that however, and I agree. But, back to work while I still have a job.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

User avatar
The_pantless_hero
Senator
 
Posts: 4302
Founded: Mar 19, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby The_pantless_hero » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:43 am

Sibirsky wrote: And, we do not agree about the cause of the rapidly rising costs.

This may be a fallacy, but only idiots disagree about rapidly rising costs and only right-wing industry tools and their sheep say rising costs are the result of malpractice. My ass. The costs of drugs and hospital stays are not going up because of malpractice insurance. I have never seen a drug manufacturer sued for malpractice. Nor a medical supplies manufacturer. Not. Once. The whole drug industry is a giant scam. How many major drug companies are in the game besides Merck? Really? Hell, doesn't Merck make some of the off-brand medicine that 'competes' with their own products? Other countries negotiate with the drug companies to keep the prices down. The US does not and in addition the FDA is in their pocket to prevent competitive, effective drugs from being approved for years and to prevent the import of their own drugs from Canada because they "can't ensure the safety." Really? Is Merck admitting to sending unsafe drugs to Canada? And hell, the medical supplies industry is even worse because they fly under the radar and don't get the coverage the drug industry does but you can be damn sure they are paying more in lobbying money to keep their profits high and getting new products from being reviewed for safety than they are for anything else.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!

Doing what we must because we can

User avatar
You-Gi-Owe
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6230
Founded: Jul 26, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby You-Gi-Owe » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:47 am

Muravyets wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:And we have programs to help them. And charities as well. And I would say food is a more urgent need except for cases of emergency.

How much money do you donate to charities?


More than 10% of my yearly income. How much do you donate to charities?
“Man, I'm so hip I won't even eat a square meal!”
"We've always been at war with Eastasia." 1984, George Orwell
Tyrion: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!"
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” ~ James Madison quotes

User avatar
Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Sibirsky » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:48 am

The_pantless_hero wrote:
Sibirsky wrote: And, we do not agree about the cause of the rapidly rising costs.

This may be a fallacy, but only idiots disagree about rapidly rising costs and only right-wing industry tools and their sheep say rising costs are the result of malpractice. My ass. The costs of drugs and hospital stays are not going up because of malpractice insurance. I have never seen a drug manufacturer sued for malpractice. Nor a medical supplies manufacturer. Not. Once. The whole drug industry is a giant scam. How many major drug companies are in the game besides Merck? Really? Hell, doesn't Merck make some of the off-brand medicine that 'competes' with their own products? Other countries negotiate with the drug companies to keep the prices down. The US does not and in addition the FDA is in their pocket to prevent competitive, effective drugs from being approved for years and to prevent the import of their own drugs from Canada because they "can't ensure the safety." Really? Is Merck admitting to sending unsafe drugs to Canada? And hell, the medical supplies industry is even worse because they fly under the radar and don't get the coverage the drug industry does but you can be damn sure they are paying more in lobbying money to keep their profits high and getting new products from being reviewed for safety than they are for anything else.


I never blamed it on malpractice suits. Are they problem contributing to rapidly rising healthcare costs? Sure. Are they the one and only problem? Far from it. No drug prices, as you point out have nothing to do with malpractice suits. Healthcare costs are more than just drugs however.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ameriganastan, Bovad, Land of Corporations, Renovated Germany, The Pirateariat

Advertisement

Remove ads