New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

[Greed and Death]

anyway

instead of starting a new thread on "favorite ammendments to the health care plan" ill just start the idea here.

my favorite ammendments so far include the republican submitted one that would require congressmen and their staff to be covered by the government health care plan if a public option is included. giving congress a personal stake in making sure the plan works is a brillian idea.

and dennis kucinich's ammendment to allow states to run their own single payer plans.

Given I don't think the republicans intended it that way.
I think they intended for it to sidetrack the bill.

all the better. it is a truly inspired idea.

Mostly just result in DC having some really well funded health care.
and even so they will still set us the separate hospitals ran by the military out of "security concerns".

[The PeoplesFreedom]

Take a big blind guess.[/quote]
I don't know, that's why I am asking.

[Ryadn]

Neither is not providing education, police, or military protection.

If I throw a brick at your head the police are there to arrest me. Because I have violated your rights. The police exist to prevent me from doing that. Not that'd I ever do it, it's just an example.

So if you throw a brick at my head, my tax dollars go toward the police that arrest you... but not towards any of the stitches to close the gash in my head?

[Muravyets]

I don't know, that's why I am asking.

I'm seriously not going to tell you because it should be so obvious from just this one thread, I'm just itching to see if you can figure it out. I don't expect you to nail it precisely because I'm a bit of one of those American hybrids, but my general position on the political spectrum should be obvious.

[The PeoplesFreedom]

I don't know, that's why I am asking.

I'm seriously not going to tell you because it should be so obvious from just this one thread, I'm just itching to see if you can figure it out. I don't expect you to nail it precisely because I'm a bit of one of those American hybrids, but my general position on the political spectrum should be obvious.

It is, I was just wondering if you were further to the left. If I were to guess, I would say your a party-line democrat, but not too much more to the left, but I may be wrong.

[Greed and Death]

Neither is not providing education, police, or military protection.

If I throw a brick at your head the police are there to arrest me. Because I have violated your rights. The police exist to prevent me from doing that. Not that'd I ever do it, it's just an example.

So if you throw a brick at my head, my tax dollars go toward the police that arrest you... but not towards any of the stitches to close the gash in my head?

Technically, he would be liable for damages incurred during the assault. You would receive treatment then the hospital would bill him for it.

[Ryadn]

We also have evidence that without government intervention things work themselves out naturally. The recession of 1920-21 was just as deep as that of 1930. Government did nothing, and by 1921 the economy was out of it.

Oh, oh, that was good! Do the Civil War next!

[Greed and Death]

Given I don't think the republicans intended it that way.
I think they intended for it to sidetrack the bill.

I would agree on that. Such a shame they suck at their jobs so bad.

they make a pretty solid opposition party.
they and the Blue dogs have already pushed the deadline back to October for a health bill.

[Muravyets]

I don't know, that's why I am asking.

I'm seriously not going to tell you because it should be so obvious from just this one thread, I'm just itching to see if you can figure it out. I don't expect you to nail it precisely because I'm a bit of one of those American hybrids, but my general position on the political spectrum should be obvious.

It is, I was just wondering if you were further to the left. If I were to guess, I would say your a party-line democrat, but not too much more to the left, but I may be wrong.

Nah, you're wrong, but it was a good and reasonable try. I do not support the line of any party, as I agree with George Washington that political parties are a vicious influence on government and society. Further, I consider the Democratic party to be just as corrupt and nearly as incompetent as the Republican party -- although I currently revile the Reps more for having whored themselves out to religious extremists. I am officially an Unaffiliated voter, and there is no party or politician with which/whom I agree on all issues.

Now you know what I'm not.

[The PeoplesFreedom]

Nah, you're wrong, but it was a good and reasonable try. I do not support the line of any party, as I agree with George Washington that political parties are a vicious influence on government and society. Further, I consider the Democratic party to be just as corrupt and nearly as incompetent as the Republican party -- although I currently revile the Reps more for having whored themselves out to religious extremists. I am officially an Unaffiliated voter, and there is no party or politician with which/whom I agree on all issues.

KK, since this was a economic argument rather than political, I had to guess off if those views. Sorry for getting it wrong though.

[Muravyets]

Technically, he would be liable for damages incurred during the assault. You would receive treatment then the hospital would bill him for it.

No, they wouldn't. They'd bill you and/or your insurer. They have no authority to bill anyone except the person they provided treatment to. It would be your insurer that sues your attacker for reimbursement. Haven't you ever injured yourself and gotten a call from your insurer asking if there was anyone else who might responsible for your injury? They're looking for someone to sue for the money they had to pay out for your treatment.

Alternatively, YOU could sue your attacker, but you would likely have to pay the bill to the hospital before you got any settlement out of him.

[Muravyets]

they make a pretty solid opposition party.
they and the Blue dogs have already pushed the deadline back to October for a health bill.

If by "solid opposition party" you mean they tie up public business endlessly for their own political purposes by acting like a fucking lump blocking the road, yeah, they seem to be good at that.

[Greed and Death]

Technically, he would be liable for damages incurred during the assault. You would receive treatment then the hospital would bill him for it.

No, they wouldn't. They'd bill you and/or your insurer. They have no authority to bill anyone except the person they provided treatment to. It would be your insurer that sues your attacker for reimbursement. Haven't you ever injured yourself and gotten a call from your insurer asking if there was anyone else who might responsible for your injury?
.

No, but Ive been assaulted in a bar and after I gave the police report to the hospital, their legal department elected to sue to place the bill on my attacker. Seems health insurers aren't the only ones with lawyers.
That might have been because I was uninsured.

[Muravyets]

KK, since this was a economic argument rather than political, I had to guess off if those views. Sorry for getting it wrong though.

No need to apologize. Being considered left of center is no insult, I assure you. It only just happens that the Dems are standing behind the course I have chosen to endorse this time. But for the record I will say it has been a good 15 years at least since I have endorsed a position taken by any Republican as I have watched that party slide further and further to the right and farther and farther from the best interests of the nation and their sworn duty to the law.

[Muravyets]

No, but Ive been assaulted in a bar and after I gave the police report to the hospital, their legal department elected to sue to place the bill on my attacker. Seems health insurers aren't the only ones with lawyers.
That might have been because I was uninsured.

Yes, actually, I think that was because you were uninsured and likely too because at that time you seemed unlikely to be able to pay out of your own pocket.

In the days when I was allowed to have no insurance, I got the bills, no matter who I might have been able to sue.

[Greed and Death]

they make a pretty solid opposition party.
they and the Blue dogs have already pushed the deadline back to October for a health bill.

If by "solid opposition party" you mean they tie up public business endlessly for their own political purposes by acting like a fucking lump blocking the road, yeah, they seem to be good at that.

I mean they almost all vote together. Obama scraped what 3 republican senators for the stimulus bill ?
Meanwhile how many democrats voted for the Iraq war? If the democrats had been a better opposition party we might not be in the mess we are in right now in Iraq.

[Muravyets]

I mean they almost all vote together. Obama scraped what 3 republican senators for the stimulus bill ?
Meanwhile how many democrats voted for the Iraq war? If the democrats had been a better opposition party we might not be in the mess we are in right now in Iraq.

So, you agree then with what I said? They're all just lying there like a big solid uniform lump?

[Greed and Death]

No, but Ive been assaulted in a bar and after I gave the police report to the hospital, their legal department elected to sue to place the bill on my attacker. Seems health insurers aren't the only ones with lawyers.
That might have been because I was uninsured.

Yes, actually, I think that was because you were uninsured and likely too because at that time you seemed unlikely to be able to pay out of your own pocket.

I had enough at the time to pay at the time(given they didn't know that), I just told them I wasn't going to.

[Treznor]

I mean they almost all vote together. Obama scraped what 3 republican senators for the stimulus bill ?
Meanwhile how many democrats voted for the Iraq war? If the democrats had been a better opposition party we might not be in the mess we are in right now in Iraq.

This part I have to agree with 100%. The Democrats completely failed the nation as opposition during the Bush administration, and since the majority of them are still in power now, I don't have a lot of hope until they can be replaced with proper progressives.

[Muravyets]

I had enough at the time to pay at the time(given they didn't know that), I just told them I wasn't going to.

Okay, well, I think that establishes that your personal experience is not indicative of general practice, so your suggestion that, in the attack hypothetical, the hospital would bill your attacker for your care does not actually refer to what hospitals typically do.

[Greed and Death]

I mean they almost all vote together. Obama scraped what 3 republican senators for the stimulus bill ?
Meanwhile how many democrats voted for the Iraq war? If the democrats had been a better opposition party we might not be in the mess we are in right now in Iraq.

So, you agree then with what I said? They're all just lying there like a big solid uniform lump?

And throwing as many amendments at bills they don't like to delay them and maybe make them nearly impassible?
They are kicking and screaming and pulling every trick in the book. That is what I expect from an opposition party.
The democrats meanwhile voted for Bush's war in the name of bipartisanship.

[Greed and Death]

I had enough at the time to pay at the time(given they didn't know that), I just told them I wasn't going to.

Okay, well, I think that establishes that your personal experience is not indicative of general practice, so your suggestion that, in the attack hypothetical, the hospital would bill your attacker for your care does not actually refer to what hospitals typically do.

So they bill your insurer, and your insurer sues to bill someone else ? End result still seems to say your attacker is the one stuck with the bill.

[Muravyets]

So they bill your insurer, and your insurer sues to bill someone else ? End result still seems to say your attacker is the one stuck with the bill.

Nope, your claim still does not reflect reality. Here's why:

1) Suing your attacker is not the same as billing your attacker. The delay in getting a settlement from a suit, even supposing the suit is successful in getting anything, means that you may still be on the hook for a share of the costs.

2) Not all attackers will be sue-able. They may have nothing to sue for. Or they may beat the rap, in which case, there is no grounds on which to sue them. In either of those cases, you and your insurer (which means just you in the long run) are on the hook.

You cannot make up a hypothetical about something that you think might happen and cite that as an answer to an argument, when in fact, it is clear that your hypothetical only seldom applies to reality and has so many ways in which it can fail to work even when it does apply.

[Greed and Death]

I mean they almost all vote together. Obama scraped what 3 republican senators for the stimulus bill ?
Meanwhile how many democrats voted for the Iraq war? If the democrats had been a better opposition party we might not be in the mess we are in right now in Iraq.

This part I have to agree with 100%. The Democrats completely failed the nation as opposition during the Bush administration, and since the majority of them are still in power now, I don't have a lot of hope until they can be replaced with proper progressives.

I would have hoped for a filibuster against the Iraq war from the democrats. I was kinda shocked when that didn't materialized. Given Bush likely would have gone anyways, but if that had happened the democrats would likely be at 70 or 75 in the senate today.
And health care would have been passed in February.

[Muravyets]

I would have hoped for a filibuster against the Iraq war from the democrats. I was kinda shocked when that didn't materialized. Given Bush likely would have gone anyways, but if that had happened the democrats would likely be at 70 or 75 in the senate today.
And health care would have been passed in February.

That entire Congress sold out this country. If I'd had my way, not one of them would be in politics now. The fact that many got reelected makes me despair of Americans.