New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

[Sibirsky]

But no historical backing to suggest that this government has or will create the same problem as currently experienced in Zimbabwe. We have a long, long way to fall before we go that far. You're constructing an argument out of straw so you can knock it down, and it's not particularly convincing.

Zimbabwe is extreme. I am not saying we will end up like that. Or even remotely close. I AM saying however that the government IS creating inflation. And contrary to what you may hear, the Fed will not be able to stop it.

[Ashmoria]

But no historical backing to suggest that this government has or will create the same problem as currently experienced in Zimbabwe. We have a long, long way to fall before we go that far. You're constructing an argument out of straw so you can knock it down, and it's not particularly convincing.

Zimbabwe is extreme. I am not saying we will end up like that. Or even remotely close. I AM saying however that the government IS creating inflation. And contrary to what you may hear, the Fed will not be able to stop it.

yes but you are forgetting that it was in response to my post about letting the rich fend for themselves.

topic drift to win a point must be some kind of logical fallacy.

[Sibirsky]

But no historical backing to suggest that this government has or will create the same problem as currently experienced in Zimbabwe. We have a long, long way to fall before we go that far. You're constructing an argument out of straw so you can knock it down, and it's not particularly convincing.

Zimbabwe is extreme. I am not saying we will end up like that. Or even remotely close. I AM saying however that the government IS creating inflation. And contrary to what you may hear, the Fed will not be able to stop it.

yes but you are forgetting that it was in response to my post about letting the rich fend for themselves.

topic drift to win a point must be some kind of logical fallacy.

It was in response to your post that the average person will not make $30 million.

[Treznor]

But no historical backing to suggest that this government has or will create the same problem as currently experienced in Zimbabwe. We have a long, long way to fall before we go that far. You're constructing an argument out of straw so you can knock it down, and it's not particularly convincing.

Zimbabwe is extreme. I am not saying we will end up like that. Or even remotely close. I AM saying however that the government IS creating inflation. And contrary to what you may hear, the Fed will not be able to stop it.

True. The government is creating inflation as a necessary consequence of deficit spending. Frankly, the government has been doing this for the past eight years, and the first we heard of such complaints is when it changed hands. Curious, that, don't you think?

However, the difference between the deficit spending of the previous eight years and now is that now the deficit spending is focused on domestic programs, and that always gets conservatives up in arms about "fiscal responsibility." We have historical precedent that the kind of investment the government is making now will not only solve the problem the previous administration got us into but will create new productivity in the future.

Whether or not you believe this is irrelevant. GOP revisionism about FDR's New Deal is based on smoke and mirrors. We have solid historical evidence that these programs will work, if given the chance. We just have to give them that chance.

[Rhodmhire]

Thank you, that was phrased better than I would have. And as a side note, I would never throw a brick at anyone.

Thanks, and I know you'd ever throw a brick at anyone.

[Muravyets]

yes but you are forgetting that it was in response to my post about letting the rich fend for themselves.

topic drift to win a point must be some kind of logical fallacy.

It was in response to your post that the average person will not make $30 million.

Only you just admitted, in your previous post, that it was nothing but hyperbole which you know perfectly well does not reflect the economic path the US is on. Therefore, you knew it was a false analogy when you posted it. Therefore you're full of bull, and your implication that someday the average American could make $30mil -- ZIMBABWE-STYLE !!!! -- is just a repetition of that bullshit. Sorry, but you don't get to repeat an argument after you yourself already invalidated it.

[Sibirsky]

But no historical backing to suggest that this government has or will create the same problem as currently experienced in Zimbabwe. We have a long, long way to fall before we go that far. You're constructing an argument out of straw so you can knock it down, and it's not particularly convincing.

Zimbabwe is extreme. I am not saying we will end up like that. Or even remotely close. I AM saying however that the government IS creating inflation. And contrary to what you may hear, the Fed will not be able to stop it.

True. The government is creating inflation as a necessary consequence of deficit spending. Frankly, the government has been doing this for the past eight years, and the first we heard of such complaints is when it changed hands. Curious, that, don't you think?

However, the difference between the deficit spending of the previous eight years and now is that now the deficit spending is focused on domestic programs, and that always gets conservatives up in arms about "fiscal responsibility." We have historical precedent that the kind of investment the government is making now will not only solve the problem the previous administration got us into but will create new productivity in the future.

Whether or not you believe this is irrelevant. GOP revisionism about FDR's New Deal is based on smoke and mirrors. We have solid historical evidence that these programs will work, if given the chance. We just have to give them that chance.

What got me up in arms is not so much of what it's being spent on (although I do not like it) but the sheer size of it. We also have evidence that without government intervention things work themselves out naturally. The recession of 1920-21 was just as deep as that of 1930. Government did nothing, and by 1921 the economy was out of it.

[Pevisopolis]

Can you say, "another step toward communism", Mr. and Mrs. America?

Allow me to explain...

If the "Dictator" Obama is really as evil and ruthless as you make him out to be, there would've been a massacre at the "Tea Parties".

Thank you for regurgitating Rush Limbaugh for us again, but we're still not buying it.

[Greed and Death]

True. The government is creating inflation as a necessary consequence of deficit spending. Frankly, the government has been doing this for the past eight years, and the first we heard of such complaints is when it changed hands. Curious, that, don't you think?

However, the difference between the deficit spending of the previous eight years and now is that now the deficit spending is focused on domestic programs, and that always gets conservatives up in arms about "fiscal responsibility." We have historical precedent that the kind of investment the government is making now will not only solve the problem the previous administration got us into but will create new productivity in the future.

Whether or not you believe this is irrelevant. GOP revisionism about FDR's New Deal is based on smoke and mirrors. We have solid historical evidence that these programs will work, if given the chance. We just have to give them that chance.

What got me up in arms is not so much of what it's being spent on (although I do not like it) but the sheer size of it. We also have evidence that without government intervention things work themselves out naturally. The recession of 1920-21 was just as deep as that of 1930. Government did nothing, and by 1921 the economy was out of it.

The government did do something it stopped screwing with the economy.

[Grave_n_idle]

What got me up in arms is not so much of what it's being spent on (although I do not like it) but the sheer size of it.

Which is exactly the WRONG way round. What should be important is what is being done with it. It shouldn't MATTER how big it is, if it's serving the right purposes.

We also have evidence that without government intervention things work themselves out naturally. The recession of 1920-21 was just as deep as that of 1930. Government did nothing, and by 1921 the economy was out of it.

Source?

[Maurepas]

Can you say, "another step toward communism", Mr. and Mrs. America?

Allow me to explain...

If the "Dictator" Obama is really as evil and ruthless as you make him out to be, there would've been a massacre at the "Tea Parties".

There was, the victim was intelligence, *nods*

[Muravyets]

What got me up in arms is not so much of what it's being spent on (although I do not like it) but the sheer size of it. We also have evidence that without government intervention things work themselves out naturally. The recession of 1920-21 was just as deep as that of 1930. Government did nothing, and by 1921 the economy was out of it.

You're joking, right? This has all been an elaborate and subtle satire, right? You cannot seriously believe that in just 8 years the US economy was so changed that the catastrophic crash of 1929 had nothing at all to do with the previous slumps.

[Sibirsky]

What got me up in arms is not so much of what it's being spent on (although I do not like it) but the sheer size of it. We also have evidence that without government intervention things work themselves out naturally. The recession of 1920-21 was just as deep as that of 1930. Government did nothing, and by 1921 the economy was out of it.

You're joking, right? This has all been an elaborate and subtle satire, right? You cannot seriously believe that in just 8 years the US economy was so changed that the catastrophic crash of 1929 had nothing at all to do with the previous slumps.

I didn't say that. What does it have to do with government intervention? Or the lack thereof?

[Pevisopolis]

Can you say, "another step toward communism", Mr. and Mrs. America?

Allow me to explain...

If the "Dictator" Obama is really as evil and ruthless as you make him out to be, there would've been a massacre at the "Tea Parties".

There was, the victim was intelligence, *nods*

No, that was just the Mopping Up operation. The real ethnic cleansing of intelligence began sometime around the 50s, and evidence shows there were lynchings and riots against it for decades before.

[Greed and Death]

What got me up in arms is not so much of what it's being spent on (although I do not like it) but the sheer size of it. We also have evidence that without government intervention things work themselves out naturally. The recession of 1920-21 was just as deep as that of 1930. Government did nothing, and by 1921 the economy was out of it.

You're joking, right? This has all been an elaborate and subtle satire, right? You cannot seriously believe that in just 8 years the US economy was so changed that the catastrophic crash of 1929 had nothing at all to do with the previous slumps.

It sort of did as the 1920-21 recession was caused by the Federal reserve creating a 100% inflation during the war.
Then upon realizing that creating a deflation. Roughly half the inflation had been removed when the federal reserve stopped deflating the economy. However gold prices weren't adjusted. And in 1928 when the economy slowed down a little people pulled out of the stock market and into gold. The federal reserve rather then raising the price of gold instead elected to shrink the dollar supply.

[Sibirsky]

Here are some links for free-market healthcare solutions

http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresour ... galen.html

http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresour ... galen.html

http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

http://www.reason.com/news/show/34816.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/ ... are_1.html

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/resu ... Suite.html

http://healthcare.cato.org/free-market-solutions

http://www.youdecidepolitics.com/2009/0 ... solutions/

http://urethaneblog.typepad.com/my_webl ... oblem.html

http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2009-07-17.asp

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/98812

http://aleksandreia.wordpress.com/2009/ ... -solution/

http://www.jpands.org/hacienda/ferrara.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_d ... ealth_care

http://www.freemarketproject.org/articl ... 42625.aspx

[Muravyets]

I didn't say that. What does it have to do with government intervention? Or the lack thereof?

It has to do with your claim that the country came out of a slump -- a negative condition -- all by itself. That the economy corrected itself. I call bullshit on the claim that the economy corrected itself in 1921. I am challenging you to show me how the '29 crash was not a continuation of an uninterrupted process that also included the '21 slump.

[Muravyets]

It sort of did as the 1920-21 recession was caused by the Federal reserve creating a 100% inflation during the war.
Then upon realizing that creating a deflation. Roughly half the inflation had been removed when the federal reserve stopped deflating the economy. However gold prices weren't adjusted. And in 1928 when the economy slowed down a little people pulled out of the stock market and into gold. The federal reserve rather then raising the price of gold instead elected to shrink the dollar supply.

Please don't take this personally, but I actually do not consider you to be any better versed in reality on economic matters than Sibirsky, based on my reading of your many posts on this topic over time and two forums. Based on your posting history, you are presumed wrong until proven otherwise. If you're going to claim that the history means what you say it means, you're going to have to do more than merely assert it to get me to go along.

[Sibirsky]

I didn't say that. What does it have to do with government intervention? Or the lack thereof?

It has to do with your claim that the country came out of a slump -- a negative condition -- all by itself. That the economy corrected itself. I call bullshit on the claim that the economy corrected itself in 1921. I am challenging you to show me how the '29 crash was not a continuation of an uninterrupted process that also included the '21 slump.

I don't remember the government doing anything to help in the early 20s.

[The PeoplesFreedom]

Actually the funny part is that the Federal Reserve which is here supposedly to stop inflation, actually creates it.

[Sibirsky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-World_War_I_recession

A very short article. Nothing about government intervention.

[Greed and Death]

It sort of did as the 1920-21 recession was caused by the Federal reserve creating a 100% inflation during the war.
Then upon realizing that creating a deflation. Roughly half the inflation had been removed when the federal reserve stopped deflating the economy. However gold prices weren't adjusted. And in 1928 when the economy slowed down a little people pulled out of the stock market and into gold. The federal reserve rather then raising the price of gold instead elected to shrink the dollar supply.

Please don't take this personally, but I actually do not consider you to be any better versed in reality on economic matters than Sibirsky, based on my reading of your many posts on this topic over time and two forums. Based on your posting history, you are presumed wrong until proven otherwise. If you're going to claim that the history means what you say it means, you're going to have to do more than merely assert it to get me to go along.

Source from my post
The Unbound Prometheus by David S. Landes
also Globalizing capital by Barry Eichengreen.
I will get pages numbers later when I am not withdrawing from Oxycontin if you like.

[Treznor]

I don't suppose any of you "free market thinkers" would find any of this applicable to our current situation, would you? A man who felt it essential to avoid making people dependent on solutions by the Federal government, who urged volunteerism to correct economic problems and repatriated millions of Mexicans, denouncing them as illegal immigrants and the cause of our financial woes? Any of this sound familiar to you?

[Greed and Death]

I don't suppose any of you "free market thinkers" would find any of this applicable to our current situation, would you? A man who felt it essential to avoid making people dependent on solutions by the Federal government, who urged volunteerism to correct economic problems and repatriated millions of Mexicans, denouncing them as illegal immigrants and the cause of our financial woes? Any of this sound familiar to you?

Your leaving out the Tariff act passed in 1930.
Your source says 500,000 Mexican Americans not millions.
Your also leaving out that he never fixed the Federal reserves stupidity, or even tried too.
ending world trade, shipping the labor force to another country are pretty big interventions in the economy.

[Intangelon]

Here's the latest on the U.S. Democratic Party's efforts to take away liberties and choices from it's citizens and get rid of the health insurance companies.

Investor's business Daily put out an editorial on 15 July 09.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
According to page 16 of the House Healt Care Reform Bill, after the date that this travesty is signed into law, the Insurance companies will no longer be allowed to sign up new health care insurance policies. This applies to people who have never had private insurance and people who want to change insurance carriers.

Can you say, "another step toward communism", Mr. and Mrs. America?

No. However, I can say "bullshit". Watch:

Bullshit.