NationStates

Grave_n_idle wrote:Apparently, you can.

Just as one can play Russian Roulette.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:Really?

Hip replacements are often done after serious hip fractures, so I'm told.

And you don't wait for that. The waits are for non-emergency treatment.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:Not really. Urgent surgery simply trumps less urgent surgery... which tends to mean that elective procedures are likely to have longer waits.

It's not like the private market can do away with waits altogether either, unless someone has started farming organs for immediate transplant.

Not waits altogether... But over 150 days is excessive. Unfortunately, I can't find anything on waits in the USA for heart surgery and the sort. I'll keep looking.

Why is 150 days excessive? If the surgery was essential and/or urgent it would move up the list - so it's a simple matetr of priority. Personally, I prefer THAT method to 'whoever has the most money, wins'.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:Apparently, you can.

Just as one can play Russian Roulette.

They can win too,

You-Gi-Owe wrote:So, why does the U.S. Democratic party want health insurance agents to become unemployed?
that's not going to help the economy. That's more unemployment.

Exactly

Conserative Morality wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:Not really. Urgent surgery simply trumps less urgent surgery... which tends to mean that elective procedures are likely to have longer waits.

It's not like the private market can do away with waits altogether either, unless someone has started farming organs for immediate transplant.

Not waits altogether... But over 150 days is excessive. Unfortunately, I can't find anything on waits in the USA for heart surgery and the sort. I'll keep looking.

Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

Conserative Morality wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:Not really. Urgent surgery simply trumps less urgent surgery... which tends to mean that elective procedures are likely to have longer waits.

It's not like the private market can do away with waits altogether either, unless someone has started farming organs for immediate transplant.

Not waits altogether... But over 150 days is excessive. Unfortunately, I can't find anything on waits in the USA for heart surgery and the sort. I'll keep looking.

Do, CM, I'd be interested to see. And the quoted bit in Ostronopolis' post said that "In Sweden, the wait for heart surgery can be as long as 25 weeks," and "the average wait for hip replacement surgery is more than a year." Weasel statements, I think. Hip replacement is not the same a broken hip and I venture to say that certain kinds of heart surgery might be deferable. As for the cancellation of 50,000 British operations a year, nothing is said about what kinds of operations. A face-lift is an operation, after all, and in all but the most extreme cases is hardly a life-saving procedure.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

Tell me about it, my Family lacks Health Insurance, and I got my face smashed in and cracked one of my molars, in Highschool...Had to wait 5 hours in the ER just to get a $3,000 bill for my troubles...

US Healthcare system sucks balls,

Conserative Morality wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:Apparently, you can.

Just as one can play Russian Roulette.

Except that you expect something like a 1-in-6 fatality rate with Russian Roulette.

It appears hysteria is your new angle, but please try to retain a little focus on realism.

Or - maybe you have some source that says 1 in 6 Swedes waiting for hip replacements dies of a hip-related ailment?

Farnhamia wrote:

Conserative Morality wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:Not really. Urgent surgery simply trumps less urgent surgery... which tends to mean that elective procedures are likely to have longer waits.

It's not like the private market can do away with waits altogether either, unless someone has started farming organs for immediate transplant.

Not waits altogether... But over 150 days is excessive. Unfortunately, I can't find anything on waits in the USA for heart surgery and the sort. I'll keep looking.

Do, CM, I'd be interested to see. And the quoted bit in Ostronopolis' post said that "In Sweden, the wait for heart surgery can be as long as 25 weeks," and "the average wait for hip replacement surgery is more than a year." Weasel statements, I think. Hip replacement is not the same a broken hip and I venture to say that certain kinds of heart surgery might be deferable. As for the cancellation of 50,000 British operations a year, nothing is said about what kinds of operations. A face-lift is an operation, after all, and in all but the most extreme cases is hardly a life-saving procedure.

The only surgery I've ever actually known to be deferred in the UK, was a surgery one of my relations was due to have to straighten a crooked toe.

I'm not saying surgeries don't ever get deferred or cancelled... but it's hardly as bad as it is being painted.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

and since we are ALL one serious illness away from never having insurance again (pre-existing condition) more and more of the american public would rather have the government decide who gets what than to be blindsided by an insurance company deciding that you wont be covered even though you have paid your premiums on time for years.

Grave_n_idle wrote:Except that you expect something like a 1-in-6 fatality rate with Russian Roulette.

The Taurus Model 608 is a series of double action revolvers chambered for the .357 Magnum round, with a cylinder capacity of 8 rounds.

In any case, it was not supposed to be an exact statistic, merely a comparison. I was under the assumption that you would catch that. Perhaps I was wrong.

It appears hysteria is your new angle, but please try to retain a little focus on realism.

"Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?"

Maurepas wrote:

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

Tell me about it, my Family lacks Health Insurance, and I got my face smashed in and cracked one of my molars, in Highschool...Had to wait 5 hours in the ER just to get a $3,000 bill for my troubles...

US Healthcare system sucks balls,

Well, from your end of the stick, yes. The hospital rang up $600 an hour on theirs.

And hey, we all know that the US government couldn't run a national health care system to save its life. Give it two, three years and people will be lined up outside the insurance companies' offices begging to sign up, offering their children as premiums.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

On the contrary, I hope that Universal Healthcare will spur the Insurance companies into action, although I somehow doubt it.

Conserative Morality wrote:"Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?"

This serves no other purpose but to be a lame attempt at flamebait?

You have compared a waiting list for surgeries... to Russian Roulette. That's pretty hysterical.

Farnhamia wrote: Well, from your end of the stick, yes. The hospital rang up $600 an hour on theirs.

And hey, we all know that the US government couldn't run a national health care system to save its life. Give it two, three years and people will be lined up outside the insurance companies' offices begging to sign up, offering their children as premiums.

as long as the health care bill doesnt ACTUALLY ban private insurance (as claimed by the OP) its a win/win. if the govt sucks at it, we have an alternative. if the insurance companies keep up with their bullshit denial of services business model, we dont have to put up with them.

Farnhamia wrote:Well, from your end of the stick, yes. The hospital rang up $600 an hour on theirs.

And hey, we all know that the US government couldn't run a national health care system to save its life. Give it two, three years and people will be lined up outside the insurance companies' offices begging to sign up, offering their children as premiums.

Im weeping on the inside for the Hospital, >.>

Besides, I dont think I cost them $600 while sitting in the waiting room, and I wasnt even checked on for a full hour when they finally got to me,

Farnhamia wrote:Do, CM, I'd be interested to see. And the quoted bit in Ostronopolis' post said that "In Sweden, the wait for heart surgery can be as long as 25 weeks," and "the average wait for hip replacement surgery is more than a year." Weasel statements, I think. Hip replacement is not the same a broken hip and I venture to say that certain kinds of heart surgery might be deferable. As for the cancellation of 50,000 British operations a year, nothing is said about what kinds of operations. A face-lift is an operation, after all, and in all but the most extreme cases is hardly a life-saving procedure.

In severe cases, hip replacement may be needed with a hip fracture.

I'm still looking for the USA waiting time, and I still can't find it. I'll keep looking.

Grave_n_idle wrote:You have compared a waiting list for surgeries... to Russian Roulette. That's pretty hysterical.

I can see that you are either deliberately ignoring the point I'm trying to get across with the example, or simply do not understand it.

Ashmoria wrote:

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

and since we are ALL one serious illness away from never having insurance again (pre-existing condition) more and more of the american public would rather have the government decide who gets what than to be blindsided by an insurance company deciding that you wont be covered even though you have paid your premiums on time for years.

Maybe people are more willing to tolerate a waiting list than be kicked to the curb.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:You have compared a waiting list for surgeries... to Russian Roulette. That's pretty hysterical.

I can see that you are either deliberately ignoring the point I'm trying to get across with the example, or simply do not understand it.

Yes, you're flamebaiting and being hysterical.

Also - I already pointed it out once, if you're not going to honestly report what I post, don't include me in your sig.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

On the contrary, I hope that Universal Healthcare will spur the Insurance companies into action, although I somehow doubt it.

Oh, they'll compete. Public education doesn't stifle private education. Isn't it odd that a good education is something that we don't leave to free market forces but health and survival we do?

Grave_n_idle wrote:Also - I already pointed it out once, if you're not going to honestly report what I post, don't include me in your sig.

I am honestly reporting what you said, GnI.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:

Ashmoria wrote:

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Even if you find it, you'd also have to factor in that the wait is probably considerably longer for the 46 million uninsured and any other insured person that the Insurance Company feels like dropping to save a buck.

I always laugh when people talk about how healthcare will go down in quality if universal healthcare became available. It can't get any worse for everyone that doesn't have it at all, can it?

and since we are ALL one serious illness away from never having insurance again (pre-existing condition) more and more of the american public would rather have the government decide who gets what than to be blindsided by an insurance company deciding that you wont be covered even though you have paid your premiums on time for years.

Maybe people are more willing to tolerate a waiting list than be kicked to the curb.

When I took my 2 year old to the doctor (over here), and was told that they simply would not give him shots if I didn't have cash to pay - I realised for the first time just how much I prefer the UK's system. I'd rather have waiting lists than treatment being optional, depending on revenue.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Oh, they'll compete. Public education doesn't stifle private education. Isn't it odd that a good education is something that we don't leave to free market forces but health and survival we do?

Yeah, we were talkin about that yesterday...

On the other hand though, most Private Schools are run by Churches, at least down here, I dont think anyone's going to be donating money to keep Insurance Companies afloat,