Austrian economics as an infallible source

[The Black Plains]

... *looks at OP* ... *blows brains out with a shotgun*. What it comes down to is whether you believe the interaction between the millions of nodes in a human's brain interacting with the millions of nodes in another three hundred million humans' brains can be expressed with cig = y or you don't. When you attempt to put the three "magic equations" of Keynesian economics into if/then statements, take their converse, inverse, and contrapositive then they absolutely fall apart. There's no variable you can plug in for human interaction and motivation.

This was fun, but I have to go. I truly wish you guys luck trying to mathematically model economics and weather. Just ignore the immense variables involved.

I'm not sure whether you're referring to econometrics here or microeconomics. If you're referring to the former, this has been addressed a very very long time ago. You could start with some very basic concepts such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem

Fundamental belief of Austrian Econ: Micro and Macro economics are inseparable and indistinguishable.

[Qwcasd]

Isn't predicting you can't predict anything a self defeating assertion?

I'm saying you can't predict anything with equations... you can predict them with prisms and axioms. Keynesian economics is algebra, Austrian economics is Geometry. Geometry works infinitely better in this situation than algebra.

How's that?

[Hydesland]

I'm saying you can't predict anything with equations... you can predict them with prisms and axioms. Keynesian economics is algebra, Austrian economics is Geometry. Geometry works infinitely better in this situation than algebra.

This is literally nonsensical. In fact, Keynes' work was never particularly mathematical for his time, less so than other contemporary economists of his time. In fact, much of Keynes' work revolved around criticising simplistic mathematical models at that time that don't accurately describe human behaviour even intuitively.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Based on statistics and mathematical models.

Mathematical models, as I said, are just short hand for complex verbal models. They use logic and deductive reasoning, and minimize any ambiguity that is inherently present when you rely on verbal explanations only. And what is not deductive reasoning if not deducing from statistical evidence?

From what I've seen of self-proclaimed Austrians on NSG, they revel in the ambiguity, because it allows them to dodge criticism by claiming they were misunderstood.

[Qwcasd]

I'm not sure whether you're referring to econometrics here or microeconomics. If you're referring to the former, this has been addressed a very very long time ago. You could start with some very basic concepts such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem

Fundamental belief of Austrian Econ: Micro and Macro economics are inseparable and indistinguishable.

Which is obviously wrong, as large Corporations can influence the prices of things.

[Hydesland]

Fundamental belief of Austrian Econ: Micro and Macro economics are inseparable and indistinguishable.

I wasn't distinguishing between the two.

[The Adrian Empire]

I tend to avoid sourcing them, just for that reason, though I do subscribe generally to the Austrian theory of economics. Considering any source I give would be little more then showing the reasoning of someone who thinks about economics more then I. I agree with their reasoning, I do follow their theories, but I don't claim it as a source for that reason.

[The Black Plains]

I'm saying you can't predict anything with equations... you can predict them with prisms and axioms. Keynesian economics is algebra, Austrian economics is Geometry. Geometry works infinitely better in this situation than algebra.

How's that?

Uhm... meaning you should be able to use logic to explain things... You should have postulates and all if/then statements with no equations to explain human interaction... you can't put numbers to it or substitute a variable for it. It should all be how a sequence of events leads to another different sequence of events using the Postulate of Profit and the Capital Structure Postulate to describe why the events occur...

[The Black Plains]

Fundamental belief of Austrian Econ: Micro and Macro economics are inseparable and indistinguishable.

Which is obviously wrong, as large Corporations can influence the prices of things.

Because of barriers to entry to competition instated by government regulations, you are absolutely right they can.

[Hydesland]

You should have postulates and all if/then statements with no equations to explain human interaction... you can't put numbers to it or substitute a variable for it.

You use if then statements all the time in mathematical economics, especially in topics like game theory. Literally my last class was just a collection of if then statements.

[Qwcasd]

How's that?

Uhm... meaning you should be able to use logic to explain things... You should have postulates and all if/then statements with no equations to explain human interaction... you can't put numbers to it or substitute a variable for it. It should all be how a sequence of events leads to another different sequence of events using the Postulate of Profit and the Capital Structure Postulate to describe why the events occur...

Isn't that exactly what all other economic schools claim?

[The Black Plains]

Uhm... meaning you should be able to use logic to explain things... You should have postulates and all if/then statements with no equations to explain human interaction... you can't put numbers to it or substitute a variable for it. It should all be how a sequence of events leads to another different sequence of events using the Postulate of Profit and the Capital Structure Postulate to describe why the events occur...

Isn't that exactly what all other economic schools claim?

There are no equations in austrian economics. It's all step-by-step logic.

[Qwcasd]

Which is obviously wrong, as large Corporations can influence the prices of things.

Because of barriers to entry to competition instated by government regulations, you are absolutely right they can.

?
So my Austrian Economics is right because a perfect market is impossible?

[Qwcasd]

Isn't that exactly what all other economic schools claim?

There are no equations in austrian economics. It's all step-by-step logic.

That could be put into an equation, if it actually made any sense.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

I tend to avoid sourcing them, just for that reason, though I do subscribe generally to the Austrian theory of economics. Considering any source I give would be little more then showing the reasoning of someone who thinks about economics more then I. I agree with their reasoning, I do follow their theories, but I don't claim it as a source for that reason.

You seem like a reasonable person. I like your approach.

[The Black Plains]

Because of barriers to entry to competition instated by government regulations, you are absolutely right they can.

?
So my Austrian Economics is right because a perfect market is impossible?

In a perfect austrian econ market there would be no government and the world would be in anarcho-capitalism. At least that's how far I take it, most people in the school do not take it that far. But most Austrian economics purporters believe in a very minimalistic government who has absolutely no foot in the business sphere. Oh and uhm... that whole thing about NOT causing inflation while in an economic recession.

[Natapoc]

It's the "You're Not The Boss Of Me" school of economics, just as Objectivism is in philosophy.

Objectivism is NOT a branch of philosophy. It is the invention of a storybook author. If Objectivism is a philosophy then so is tlhIngan tIgh: SuvwI' DevmeH paq (The klingon way) or Jedi knight philosophy.

[Qwcasd]

?
So my Austrian Economics is right because a perfect market is impossible?

In a perfect austrian econ market there would be no government and the world would be in anarcho-capitalism. At least that's how far I take it, most people in the school do not take it that far. But most Austrian economics purporters believe in a very minimalistic government who has absolutely no foot in the business sphere. Oh and uhm... that whole thing about NOT causing inflation while in an economic recession.

Even if they had no foot in the business sphere you would still assert that government caused recessions.
For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893

[The Black Plains]

In a perfect austrian econ market there would be no government and the world would be in anarcho-capitalism. At least that's how far I take it, most people in the school do not take it that far. But most Austrian economics purporters believe in a very minimalistic government who has absolutely no foot in the business sphere. Oh and uhm... that whole thing about NOT causing inflation while in an economic recession.

Even if they had no foot in the business sphere you would still assert that government caused recessions.
For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893

Yea it's not like the government provided subsidies to specific railroad lines when there wasn't any demand for them. That never happened.

[Keijzers]

?
So my Austrian Economics is right because a perfect market is impossible?

In a perfect austrian econ market there would be no government and the world would be in anarcho-capitalism. At least that's how far I take it, most people in the school do not take it that far. But most Austrian economics purporters believe in a very minimalistic government who has absolutely no foot in the business sphere. Oh and uhm... that whole thing about NOT causing inflation while in an economic recession.

And there it is. The Austrian School denies science, because it's basically a political view. It advocates anarchocapitalistic or libertarian views. I mean, you're certainly entitled to your political view. But do not sell it as the answer that science cannot offer. You should try to use science to back your political view up.

[Qwcasd]

Even if they had no foot in the business sphere you would still assert that government caused recessions.
For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893

Yea it's not like the government provided subsidies to specific railroad lines when there wasn't any demand for them. That never happened.

There in lies the rub. The US government in the 1800s was literally as Laissez Faire is it could get. And yet you still find a reason to blame them.

[The Adrian Empire]

It's the "You're Not The Boss Of Me" school of economics, just as Objectivism is in philosophy.

Objectivism is NOT a branch of philosophy. It is the invention of a storybook author. If Objectivism is a philosophy then so is tlhIngan tIgh: SuvwI' DevmeH paq (The klingon way) or Jedi knight philosophy.

I think it is popularly followed by enough people to classify as a philosophy, Ayn Rand wrote non-fiction too. Now if Worf (only Klingon name I remember) or Obi-Wan writes a novel concerning their personal philosophies in practical application, perhaps. However until then Objectivism does have a place in philosophy.

[Hydesland]

There are many philosophical works, especially in classical philosophy, that were developed using literary devices, this does not negate it being a philosophy.

[The Black Plains]

Yea it's not like the government provided subsidies to specific railroad lines when there wasn't any demand for them. That never happened.

There in lies the rub. The US government in the 1800s was literally as Laissez Faire is it could get. And yet you still find a reason to blame them.

Sorry, they subsidized and leased more or less free land to the railroad and even covered many expenses for the trans-continental railroad. There was no demand for the railroad and it was a risky investment, and so required subsidization. Then when there WAS no demand for it, shit fell apart.

[The Adrian Empire]

Yea it's not like the government provided subsidies to specific railroad lines when there wasn't any demand for them. That never happened.

There in lies the rub. The US government in the 1800s was literally as Laissez Faire is it could get. And yet you still find a reason to blame them.

The problem was specifically with the railroads and silver inflation, still it isn't as if Austrians deny that recessions would occur under a free market, they believe they would be minimal in scope and less common.