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God Proven To Exist

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Would You Be Happier If a God Was Proven To Exist or to Not Exist?

Yes (Theist)
47
18%
Yes (Agnostic)
23
9%
Yes (Atheist)
26
10%
No Change (Theist)
22
9%
No Change (Agnostic)
16
6%
No Change (Atheist)
23
9%
Less Happy (Theist)
5
2%
Less Happy (Agnostic)
9
4%
Less Happy (Atheist
27
11%
Don't know/depends/maybe
59
23%
 
Total votes : 257
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:22 pm

Hornopolis wrote:In b4 Canadai.

:lol:

Nice sunglasses btw.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:24 pm

Saurisia wrote:Why sure, I'd be happy to! Of course, the Atheists will obviously deny that God exists if it's proven.


What if it turns out the Hindu pantheon is real ;) ?

Or that it is the Phelpses version of the Christian God :p ?
Or the original Puritans version ;) ? "Christmas is sinful. Music is sinful. Fun is sinful" :p
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Adrian Empire
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Postby The Adrian Empire » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:30 pm

Paradoxically, proof of a God's existence would disprove the Abrahamic God, since he makes it quite clear we are never going to find ultimate proof of him and should take it on faith. I'm reminded of the babel-fish from The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Universe, something so fantastic that it proved God's existence and simultaneously disproved it because we were to believe him only on faith. So if proof was found, I'd be upset as a Christian, but then I've always been a Deist-leaning Christian, and have more sympathy to Buddhist philosophy on God.
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Angleter
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Postby Angleter » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:30 pm

Old Erisia wrote:
Sierra Lobo wrote:
I think that is one of the main reason why God had not completely revealed himself. By sending prophets, by sending jesus (catholic/christians) he affirmed he exists, but he had never truly show to man his complete glory. In a way he has given man free will .... because by showing himself, he would have destroyed that gift.

Man's free will is ultimately a choice to accept him through faith or to completely reject him. showing himself would just remove that choice.

Why give us the choice? why make us in the first place? That seems like a pretty sick game imo...


Ooh, free will vs predestination. That's a pretty age-old philosophical discussion, but the free will argument is that God created the world (and in turn, through evolution according to most churches, humanity) for his own pleasure as he is a creative being, and wants to have a loving relationship with those who love Him. By predestining everyone to love Him, God would in effect have taken away our ability to love Him, as we would have no choice in the matter, and the love would pretty much be His own and not ours. By showing himself and proving His existence, the same effect would occur in- I'd imagine- over 99% of the population of the Earth. It would be back-door predestination.
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Illithar
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Founded: Mar 09, 2009
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Postby Illithar » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:30 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Saurisia wrote:Why sure, I'd be happy to! Of course, the Atheists will obviously deny that God exists if it's proven.


What if it turns out the Hindu pantheon is real ;) ?

Or that it is the Phelpses version of the Christian God :p ?
Or the original Puritans version ;) ? "Christmas is sinful. Music is sinful. Fun is sinful" :p

That would suck, actually.
Last edited by Illithar on Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imsogone
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Postby Imsogone » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:31 pm

Whether or not deities exist would have no effect on how I lead my life or how I view my life, hence no effect on my happiness or lack thereof.

Believers have this notion that there's a deity or group of deities that is real and all others are, at best, pretenders. I suspect that reality will bite them in the butt rather hard. The deities of this world are the constructs of our limited minds. Whatever is out there that passes for deity is not something that we understand right now, largely because we've dressed it up according to our own biases, and so render ourselves incapable of understanding.
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Old Erisia
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Postby Old Erisia » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:33 pm

Angleter wrote:
Old Erisia wrote:Why give us the choice? why make us in the first place? That seems like a pretty sick game imo...


Ooh, free will vs predestination. That's a pretty age-old philosophical discussion, but the free will argument is that God created the world (and in turn, through evolution according to most churches, humanity) for his own pleasure as he is a creative being, and wants to have a loving relationship with those who love Him. By predestining everyone to love Him, God would in effect have taken away our ability to love Him, as we would have no choice in the matter, and the love would pretty much be His own and not ours. By showing himself and proving His existence, the same effect would occur in- I'd imagine- over 99% of the population of the Earth. It would be back-door predestination.

...
Yes, I am aware. Pretty sick, innit?
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Xasivius
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Posts: 122
Founded: Oct 08, 2010
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Postby Xasivius » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:34 pm

Baptisia wrote:An interesting related point: If atheists are right, then no one will ever actually find that fact out for sure. But if Christians are right, then everyone who ever lived will find that fact out together.

I really like the way you put that. You're absolutely right.
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Sierra Lobo
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Founded: Jul 17, 2009
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Postby Sierra Lobo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:35 pm

Old Erisia wrote:
Sierra Lobo wrote:
I think that is one of the main reason why God had not completely revealed himself. By sending prophets, by sending jesus (catholic/christians) he affirmed he exists, but he had never truly show to man his complete glory. In a way he has given man free will .... because by showing himself, he would have destroyed that gift.

Man's free will is ultimately a choice to accept him through faith or to completely reject him. showing himself would just remove that choice.

Why give us the choice? why make us in the first place? That seems like a pretty sick game imo...


That is why free will is a double edge sword even to god. He love man so much that he will be ecstatic that man choose him and be extremely sad if he turns his back to him, but showing himself completely would remove free choice..... it becomes a compulsion.

He gave man rational thinking to discover his creation, he also gave us his prophets to give more direct clues..... to say I exists. Now it is up to man to think and discover him personally - he gave you 2 choices, one to acknowledge him, the second to reject him.... this is your free will. He rather have a man who completely loves him than to have man's love that is borne by compulsion.

The truth here is this..... my life here in this world is temporary, I will die. I always ask, is there really a point I live, and why I am able to think.... what is really so different between me and an animal, the animal is there to exist.... but why should I try to exert effort to better myself, why should I gain knowledge more, who/what is there that I need to discover.

Even with all knowledge, as my grandfather who was in his deathbed says, it boils down to a simple fact that when nearing death, you will only have faith, that your passing will not be your end, and in faith that in your brief stay here you have made an impression.
Last edited by Sierra Lobo on Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Alma Mater
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Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:35 pm

Xasivius wrote:
Baptisia wrote:An interesting related point: If atheists are right, then no one will ever actually find that fact out for sure. But if Christians are right, then everyone who ever lived will find that fact out together.

I really like the way you put that. You're absolutely right.


Of course, the same is true for the Hindus, Celts, Jains... ;)
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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:37 pm

I'd be worried, as judging from our history he doesn't feel particularly benevolent toward human beings, nor should he considering how superior of a creature he is.
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The Alma Mater
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Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:38 pm

Illithar wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
What if it turns out the Hindu pantheon is real ;) ?

Or that it is the Phelpses version of the Christian God :p ?
Or the original Puritans version ;) ? "Christmas is sinful. Music is sinful. Fun is sinful" :p

That would suck, actually.


"Sucking is sinful".

;)
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:40 pm

The Adrian Empire wrote:Paradoxically, proof of a God's existence would disprove the Abrahamic God, since he makes it quite clear we are never going to find ultimate proof of him and should take it on faith. I'm reminded of the babel-fish from The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Universe, something so fantastic that it proved God's existence and simultaneously disproved it because we were to believe him only on faith. So if proof was found, I'd be upset as a Christian, but then I've always been a Deist-leaning Christian, and have more sympathy to Buddhist philosophy on God.

where does he make it quite clear?
whatever
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Old Erisia
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Founded: Feb 13, 2010
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Postby Old Erisia » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:41 pm

Sierra Lobo wrote:
Old Erisia wrote:Why give us the choice? why make us in the first place? That seems like a pretty sick game imo...


That is why free will is a double edge sword even to god. He love man so much that he will be ecstatic that man choose him and be extremely sad if he turns his back to him, but showing himself completely would remove free choice..... it becomes a compulsion.

He gave man rational thinking to discover his creation, he also gave us his prophets to give more direct clues..... to say I exists. Now it is up to man to think and discover him personally - he gave you 2 choices, one to acknowledge him, the second to reject him.... this is your free will. He rather have a man who completely loves him than to have man's love that is borne by compulsion.

But WHY?! That thinking just makes us seem like little playthings. Why does he value blind obedience in the face of cruelty and a want for knowledge? It just seems sick that he would act in such a way. Its like he is amused by our suffering. He built us to suffer and then punishes whoever reject him.
Coming eventually
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From New Hayesalia
Grainne Ni Malley wrote:Hey now that give-a-fuck wasn't free. I expect a check in the mail. ;)
Ryadn wrote:Oh ffs. That's pathetic. If I can manage not to gag with a dick in my throat, you can manage to keep it together with a freaking HAIR on your tongue.
The Parkus Empire wrote:Then stop getting everyone excited, Mr. Human Viagra.
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:I'm a Bignostic Cross-sexual Nondresser. :)
Lackadaisical2 wrote:rofl.... goddesses are weak sexually, Men are so much more appealing.

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The Southern Dictators
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Postby The Southern Dictators » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:43 pm

Old Erisia wrote:
Sierra Lobo wrote:
I think that is one of the main reason why God had not completely revealed himself. By sending prophets, by sending jesus (catholic/christians) he affirmed he exists, but he had never truly show to man his complete glory. In a way he has given man free will .... because by showing himself, he would have destroyed that gift.

Man's free will is ultimately a choice to accept him through faith or to completely reject him. showing himself would just remove that choice.

Why give us the choice? why make us in the first place? That seems like a pretty sick game imo...


Then don't play the "game". I'm enjoying the "game" so far.
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GeneralHaNor
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Postby GeneralHaNor » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:43 pm

Xasivius wrote:
Baptisia wrote:An interesting related point: If atheists are right, then no one will ever actually find that fact out for sure. But if Christians are right, then everyone who ever lived will find that fact out together.

I really like the way you put that. You're absolutely right.


Nonsense, This is Pascals Wager expanded to the "Great Judgment"
It assumes a universe with a coin flip, when those two options are actually just options among an infinite number of possibilities

It's wrong on it's face.
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The Alma Mater
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Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:44 pm

Old Erisia wrote:
Sierra Lobo wrote:
That is why free will is a double edge sword even to god. He love man so much that he will be ecstatic that man choose him and be extremely sad if he turns his back to him, but showing himself completely would remove free choice..... it becomes a compulsion.

He gave man rational thinking to discover his creation, he also gave us his prophets to give more direct clues..... to say I exists. Now it is up to man to think and discover him personally - he gave you 2 choices, one to acknowledge him, the second to reject him.... this is your free will. He rather have a man who completely loves him than to have man's love that is borne by compulsion.

But WHY?! That thinking just makes us seem like little playthings. Why does he value blind obedience in the face of cruelty and a want for knowledge? It just seems sick that he would act in such a way. Its like he is amused by our suffering. He built us to suffer and then punishes whoever reject him.


Never played the Sims I take it :) ?
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
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GeneralHaNor
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Postby GeneralHaNor » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:45 pm

Old Erisia wrote:
Sierra Lobo wrote:
That is why free will is a double edge sword even to god. He love man so much that he will be ecstatic that man choose him and be extremely sad if he turns his back to him, but showing himself completely would remove free choice..... it becomes a compulsion.

He gave man rational thinking to discover his creation, he also gave us his prophets to give more direct clues..... to say I exists. Now it is up to man to think and discover him personally - he gave you 2 choices, one to acknowledge him, the second to reject him.... this is your free will. He rather have a man who completely loves him than to have man's love that is borne by compulsion.

But WHY?! That thinking just makes us seem like little playthings. Why does he value blind obedience in the face of cruelty and a want for knowledge? It just seems sick that he would act in such a way. Its like he is amused by our suffering. He built us to suffer and then punishes whoever reject him.


God is a Sadist and a Comedian
We know this already
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And I'd hand them an insurgency.
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Old Erisia
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Founded: Feb 13, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Old Erisia » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:45 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Old Erisia wrote:But WHY?! That thinking just makes us seem like little playthings. Why does he value blind obedience in the face of cruelty and a want for knowledge? It just seems sick that he would act in such a way. Its like he is amused by our suffering. He built us to suffer and then punishes whoever reject him.


Never played the Sims I take it :) ?

Yeah, but I admit I'm fucked up...
Coming eventually
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Grainne Ni Malley wrote:Hey now that give-a-fuck wasn't free. I expect a check in the mail. ;)
Ryadn wrote:Oh ffs. That's pathetic. If I can manage not to gag with a dick in my throat, you can manage to keep it together with a freaking HAIR on your tongue.
The Parkus Empire wrote:Then stop getting everyone excited, Mr. Human Viagra.
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:I'm a Bignostic Cross-sexual Nondresser. :)
Lackadaisical2 wrote:rofl.... goddesses are weak sexually, Men are so much more appealing.

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Supreme Marshal Petan
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Founded: Oct 02, 2010
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Postby Supreme Marshal Petan » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:46 pm

I'm super drunk and I love you guys! :p :lol: :D
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Old Erisia
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Founded: Feb 13, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Old Erisia » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:47 pm

The Southern Dictators wrote:
Old Erisia wrote:Why give us the choice? why make us in the first place? That seems like a pretty sick game imo...


Then don't play the "game". I'm enjoying the "game" so far.

????????

GeneralHaNor wrote:
Old Erisia wrote:But WHY?! That thinking just makes us seem like little playthings. Why does he value blind obedience in the face of cruelty and a want for knowledge? It just seems sick that he would act in such a way. Its like he is amused by our suffering. He built us to suffer and then punishes whoever reject him.


God is a Sadist and a Comedian
We know this already

Then (s)he is not the Christian god who ever (s)he is...
Coming eventually
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From New Hayesalia
Grainne Ni Malley wrote:Hey now that give-a-fuck wasn't free. I expect a check in the mail. ;)
Ryadn wrote:Oh ffs. That's pathetic. If I can manage not to gag with a dick in my throat, you can manage to keep it together with a freaking HAIR on your tongue.
The Parkus Empire wrote:Then stop getting everyone excited, Mr. Human Viagra.
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:I'm a Bignostic Cross-sexual Nondresser. :)
Lackadaisical2 wrote:rofl.... goddesses are weak sexually, Men are so much more appealing.

Remembers the Botafogo
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Sierra Lobo
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Founded: Jul 17, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sierra Lobo » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:48 pm

Old Erisia wrote:
Sierra Lobo wrote:
That is why free will is a double edge sword even to god. He love man so much that he will be ecstatic that man choose him and be extremely sad if he turns his back to him, but showing himself completely would remove free choice..... it becomes a compulsion.

He gave man rational thinking to discover his creation, he also gave us his prophets to give more direct clues..... to say I exists. Now it is up to man to think and discover him personally - he gave you 2 choices, one to acknowledge him, the second to reject him.... this is your free will. He rather have a man who completely loves him than to have man's love that is borne by compulsion.

But WHY?! That thinking just makes us seem like little playthings. Why does he value blind obedience in the face of cruelty and a want for knowledge? It just seems sick that he would act in such a way. Its like he is amused by our suffering. He built us to suffer and then punishes whoever reject him.


You forget that in all holy scriptures of different denomination, it just comes down to a simple act - surrender, an act of choice. Never is it suggested you will be forced and if god really likes blind obedience then he should have program us that way. He gave us intellect to discover things, even an intellect to completely reject him..... again choice. It is never about blind obedience, and to illustrate it more, by showing himself, he does removed free will and enforced blind obedience.
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Drinent
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Founded: Feb 11, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Drinent » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:49 pm

I believe God is nothing more than everything around you and within yourself. He isn't some all powerful being, he isn't going to solve your problems, but maybe if you look around you can see the good throughout the world and it will help you with your life. If it's existence is proven I would be unchanged, just an agnostic as I have always been.
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Lackadaisical2
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lackadaisical2 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 pm

Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:I'm super drunk and I love you guys! :p :lol: :D

:clap:

But do you love God?
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Supreme Marshal Petan
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Postby Supreme Marshal Petan » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 pm

Lackadaisical2 wrote:
Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:I'm super drunk and I love you guys! :p :lol: :D

:clap:

But do you love God?


haha, i dunno
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