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Gang Control

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Bendira
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Gang Control

Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:57 pm

So you live in a town. This town is run by a mafia family. This mafia family has enforcers that enforce rules the Mafia bosses introduce to the town. Often times, these mafia bosses allow regular citizens in the town to help influence their decisions. This keeps the town's population relatively peaceful, because they have convinced themselves that they have atleast a little control over what the mafia enforces. This mafia extorts money out of the populace, by way of protection racket. You pay them 5% of what your business makes, and they protect you from criminals (and them from beating you up, or kidnapping you and putting you in a cage if you do not pay). They use a lot of this money to pay for more advanced enforcement technology, like weaponry. They use this money to go kill other mafia's in other lands to either steal their resources or unite their populace behind a common cause.

Unfortunately for the mafia bosses, a lot of young people are beggining to get suspicous of this system. These young people haven't endured the oppression for as long as the adults of the town have, and as a result have more of a passion/fire to right this wrong. They use raw rational thinking, instead of irrational emotionally influenced experiences as a basis for decision making. Unfortunately for the youth of the town, the mafia has a solution. They create mandatory schools for children, where they go and learn in history classes about how glorious past mafia bosses were, and how we should be proud about how the local mafia has defeated other mafia's in the past. The youth learn about theories that say the mafia is justified in what they do, because they have consent of the governed. Even though much of the voting population does not vote, and there are only two candidates that have a fair chance, both in funding and media coverage, the youth have this "consent of the governed" idea drilled into their heads from a young age. They become mentally weak ideologues that do not question the mafia bosses.

Finally, even if you do not respect the mafia bosses, many surely must respect this invisible god. This invisible god that children are taught about when they are young and impressionable, tells them that gang control is ethically correct. Protection rackets are ok, but only when perpetrated by specific undefineable gang's. In fact, this god does not define what type of gang's are ethically correct or not. I guess all gang's are ethically correct.

So NSG, how do you feel about gang control? Are you proud of living under a mafia's control? Are you proud of your "country" (your mafia gang's turf). Are you proud to join this mafia and serve in order to kill other mafia members?
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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:04 pm

Oooh! Oooh! Can I guess the point of this thread? It's so people can say "Well, I don't support the mafia running my town in such a manner." and you can respond "Well, why do you support the government? It does the same things!", at which point you expect us to crumble under the inescapable weight of your anarcho-capitalist logic, repent for our statist sins and bow at the altar to the Almighty Rothbard?

Let me know when I get close.

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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:09 pm

Bendira wrote: Are you proud of living under a mafia's control?


Yeah it's pretty nice actually.

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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:11 pm

Avenio wrote:Oooh! Oooh! Can I guess the point of this thread? It's so people can say "Well, I don't support the mafia running my town in such a manner." and you can respond "Well, why do you support the government? It does the same things!", at which point you expect us to crumble under the inescapable weight of your anarcho-capitalist logic, repent for our statist sins and bow at the altar to the Almighty Rothbard?

Let me know when I get close.


And it's such a fresh argument too. No one has ever brought up this argument using that analogy on this forum before.
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:11 pm

Avenio wrote:Oooh! Oooh! Can I guess the point of this thread? It's so people can say "Well, I don't support the mafia running my town in such a manner." and you can respond "Well, why do you support the government? It does the same things!", at which point you expect us to crumble under the inescapable weight of your anarcho-capitalist logic, repent for our statist sins and bow at the altar to the Almighty Rothbard?

Let me know when I get close.


Wow your good.

Actually I think it becomes quite obvious that im talking about governments like 1/4th of the way in.
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Miklesia
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Postby Miklesia » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:11 pm

Aside from the brainwashing, the place seems pretty nice.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:11 pm

New Manvir wrote:
Avenio wrote:Oooh! Oooh! Can I guess the point of this thread? It's so people can say "Well, I don't support the mafia running my town in such a manner." and you can respond "Well, why do you support the government? It does the same things!", at which point you expect us to crumble under the inescapable weight of your anarcho-capitalist logic, repent for our statist sins and bow at the altar to the Almighty Rothbard?

Let me know when I get close.


And it's such a fresh argument too. No one has ever brought up this argument using that analogy on this forum before.


And nobody has ever made a convincing argument against it :(
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:12 pm

Bendira wrote:
Avenio wrote:Oooh! Oooh! Can I guess the point of this thread? It's so people can say "Well, I don't support the mafia running my town in such a manner." and you can respond "Well, why do you support the government? It does the same things!", at which point you expect us to crumble under the inescapable weight of your anarcho-capitalist logic, repent for our statist sins and bow at the altar to the Almighty Rothbard?

Let me know when I get close.


Wow your good.

Actually I think it becomes quite obvious that im talking about governments like 1/4th of the way in.


It became blatantly obvious at the third sentence.

right here.

Often times, these mafia bosses allow regular citizens in the town to help influence their decisions. This keeps the town's population relatively peaceful, because they have convinced themselves that they have atleast a little control over what the mafia enforces.
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Coccygia
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Postby Coccygia » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:13 pm

That's a nice description of how the Middle Ages worked but not how the modern world works.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:14 pm

Hydesland wrote:
Bendira wrote: Are you proud of living under a mafia's control?


Yeah it's pretty nice actually.


Do you have a reason for this? Other then you being brainwashed by the public education system I mean.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:14 pm

Coccygia wrote:That's a nice description of how the Middle Ages worked but not how the modern world works.


Whats different between my example and the modern world?
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:15 pm

Bendira wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
And it's such a fresh argument too. No one has ever brought up this argument using that analogy on this forum before.


And nobody has ever made a convincing argument against it :(


Maybe it doesn't need a convincing argument against it. Seeing as my local "mafia" provides me with protection, an education, healthcare and mess of other services, and only convenes with the approval of our "town", I'm pretty happy with it.
I am from Canada | I'm some kind of Socialist | And also Batman
"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:16 pm

See I have been saying it so many time in almost every anti-government thread...

If you dont like it go to somalia and see how you like non-governed land.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Respublika Goroda
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Postby Respublika Goroda » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:17 pm

That actually sounds like a pretty reasonable setup.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:17 pm

New Manvir wrote:
Bendira wrote:
And nobody has ever made a convincing argument against it :(


Maybe it doesn't need a convincing argument against it. Seeing as my local "mafia" provides me with protection, an education, healthcare and mess of other services, and only convenes with the approval of our "town", I'm pretty happy with it.


Yeah but see, thats an argument for something based on "I am a wuss that's scared of change".
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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:18 pm

Bendira wrote:
Hydesland wrote:
Yeah it's pretty nice actually.


Do you have a reason for this? Other then you being brainwashed by the public education system I mean.


I think mafia is pretty cool guy, eh kills other mafias and doesnt afraid of anything.

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Cyber Utopia
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Postby Cyber Utopia » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:19 pm

I wish my government was a mafia, maybe then they'd be more lenient when it comes to drugs.
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Last edited by Jenrak on Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:20 pm

Bendira wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
Maybe it doesn't need a convincing argument against it. Seeing as my local "mafia" provides me with protection, an education, healthcare and mess of other services, and only convenes with the approval of our "town", I'm pretty happy with it.


Yeah but see, thats an argument for something based on "I am a wuss that's scared of change".


No it's an argument based on "radical change is unnecessary and stupid when things are working relatively well right now."
I am from Canada | I'm some kind of Socialist | And also Batman
"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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The Nuclear Fist
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Postby The Nuclear Fist » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:21 pm

Bendira wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
Maybe it doesn't need a convincing argument against it. Seeing as my local "mafia" provides me with protection, an education, healthcare and mess of other services, and only convenes with the approval of our "town", I'm pretty happy with it.


Yeah but see, thats an argument for something based on "I am a wuss that's scared of change".

No, its an argument based on 'I am not so blind that I think the government is evil, and should be abolished. Do to the fact that society would completely crumble without a firm hand on it, which takes the form of government. But hey, enjoy your fantasy land.'
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:21 pm

Hydesland wrote:
Bendira wrote:
Do you have a reason for this? Other then you being brainwashed by the public education system I mean.


I think mafia is pretty cool guy, eh kills other mafias and doesnt afraid of anything.


Except for Batman.
I am from Canada | I'm some kind of Socialist | And also Batman
"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:21 pm

Great Nepal wrote:See I have been saying it so many time in almost every anti-government thread...

If you dont like it go to somalia and see how you like non-governed land.


Yeah, thats a really good argument *sarcasm*. Because Somalia is actually representative of libertarian ideologies right? l0l :palm: .

Even though Somalia isn't even close to an ideal libertarian society, the funny part is, they are still better off then they were with a government.


http://www.peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf
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Respublika Goroda
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Postby Respublika Goroda » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:22 pm

Bendira wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
Maybe it doesn't need a convincing argument against it. Seeing as my local "mafia" provides me with protection, an education, healthcare and mess of other services, and only convenes with the approval of our "town", I'm pretty happy with it.


Yeah but see, thats an argument for something based on "I am a wuss that's scared of change".


No, that's called organized society. The elected government provides security and prosperity in exchange for a curbing of some freedoms for the greater good. When it becomes obvious that the government has become self serving, then typically it is overthrown.

What's with people and this odd attachment to this thing called "liberty"? When stacked against order, individual desires don't really rank as high to me as the collective wellbeing.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:22 pm

New Manvir wrote:
Bendira wrote:
Yeah but see, thats an argument for something based on "I am a wuss that's scared of change".


No it's an argument based on "radical change is unnecessary and stupid when things are working relatively well right now."


Yeah, I loved handcuffing women to butter churns and whipping my slaves in the field. Those were the days amirite? :palm:
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:25 pm

Bendira wrote:
New Manvir wrote:
No it's an argument based on "radical change is unnecessary and stupid when things are working relatively well right now."


Yeah, I loved handcuffing women to butter churns and whipping my slaves in the field. Those were the days amirite? :palm:


Which they obviously still do, amirite?
Last edited by New Manvir on Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am from Canada | I'm some kind of Socialist | And also Batman
"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:25 pm

Bendira wrote:Yeah, I loved handcuffing women to butter churns and whipping my slaves in the field. Those were the days amirite? :palm:


But now the governments, with their dayam crazy policies like banning slavery, and public non discriminatory education, is oppressing us! Amirite?

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