Gang Control

[Greater Tezdrian]

@Bendira
Dude,
I beg you to answer my question.

GT, in another thread, Cat tribes tried his darnest to get Bendira to read books like the Leviathan . When he says "one of "those"" people, he means one of those people who've actually spent the time to read such political works and understand what's going on, and thus you've been infected... with knowledge!

But he'll likely claim you've been brain washed by Columbian drug lords or something.

*gasp*

Is there a cure, Doctor?

[Bendira]

I don't believe your story but I like it's message. The problem I have with anarcho-communism/socialism is that ultimately it can't be anarchic, though it could be a fully democratic society, however it would not lack a state, a state is necessary to organize the resources in the absence of property, except in the case of primitivism. It can't allow full freedom because it does not allow property, and property is necessary for true individual freedom.
For my own personal voluntarist philosophy the reason I support anarcho-capitalism above communism is most importantly does that anarcho-capitalism by no means bars free individuals from practising anarcho-communism, where as anarcho-communism must by necessity bar anarcho-capitalism, thus the former would deliver the greatest freedom of choice.

Why don't you believe my story?

[Bendira]

GT, in another thread, Cat tribes tried his darnest to get Bendira to read books like the Leviathan . When he says "one of "those"" people, he means one of those people who've actually spent the time to read such political works and understand what's going on, and thus you've been infected... with knowledge!

But he'll likely claim you've been brain washed by Columbian drug lords or something.

*gasp*

Is there a cure, Doctor?

Answer: Fascist.

[Wilgrove]

What the hell? Do yourself a favor and pick up a fucking history book. Please, do this or shut the hell up about the evils of taxation. The computer you type on was paid for by taxation, the anarcho-commie books you read are paid for by taxation, the car you drive and the roads you drive on are paid for by taxation. Also, did I mention the wages you get paid are a product of taxation? Get a clue. Read a book.

Im not a communist, and I am aware of what taxation pays for. I think the private sector can do a better job, with less coercion. And what book do you recommend for me to read in order to be enlightened?

Yea, because the private sector is doing GREAT on private roads, police forces, fire departments, the healthcare industry, and taking care of people who can't (not won't, can't) work.

Oh wait...

[Greater Tezdrian]

*gasp*

Is there a cure, Doctor?

Answer: Fascist.

Indeed I am. What's your point?

((Edit: Yay!!! 1000th post!!!))

[The Southern Dictators]

See I have been saying it so many time in almost every anti-government thread...

If you dont like it go to somalia and see how you like non-governed land.

That actually sounds like a pretty reasonable setup.

No it's an argument based on "radical change is unnecessary and stupid when things are working relatively well right now."

These^

[The Adrian Empire]

See, even more reason for you to jump over to our side. Become an anarcho-communist today. The sex is better over here!

Admittedly true. Anarcho-capitalism/Extreme minarchism, just doesn't have the same effect in painting a world, especially since explaining it in any sense usually means a trip down the dull lane of economic thought. Telling a girl (or any person) you believe in world where every person shared everything and lived in peace is a lot sexier then explaining the problems of a moneyless economy. From personal experience I can tell you that. Because literally I once debated a girl over the issues with a money-less economy.

[The Adrian Empire]

I don't believe your story but I like it's message. The problem I have with anarcho-communism/socialism is that ultimately it can't be anarchic, though it could be a fully democratic society, however it would not lack a state, a state is necessary to organize the resources in the absence of property, except in the case of primitivism. It can't allow full freedom because it does not allow property, and property is necessary for true individual freedom.
For my own personal voluntarist philosophy the reason I support anarcho-capitalism above communism is most importantly does that anarcho-capitalism by no means bars free individuals from practising anarcho-communism, where as anarcho-communism must by necessity bar anarcho-capitalism, thus the former would deliver the greatest freedom of choice.

Why don't you believe my story?

It's too convenient. I believe it could happen, I just don't believe I nor anyone could convince my (their) friends to try to be communists for a camping trip.

[Natapoc]

Answer: Fascist.

Indeed I am. What's your point?

((Edit: Yay!!! 1000th post!!!))

Not sure if he is going to respond to you or not but I will. Your listing a series of books that agree with you is about as convincing as a young earth creationist listing 3 "creationist" books plus the king james version of the bible and telling you to read them.

Your post had no original content and thus was worthy of being ignored.

[Bendira]

Why don't you believe my story?

It's too convenient. I believe it could happen, I just don't believe I nor anyone could convince my (their) friends to try to be communists for a camping trip.

I didn't convince my friends to have a communist camping trip. I only realized the parallels between our trip and anarcho-communism in hindsight.

[Conserative Morality]

Not sure if he is going to respond to you or not but I will. Your listing a series of books that agree with you is about as convincing as a young earth creationist listing 3 "creationist" books plus the king james version of the bible and telling you to read them.

Your post had no original content and thus was worthy of being ignored.

The problem being is that he requested a number of books. Fascism, while it's points are certainly not proven fact, do not fly in the face of fact in the same way as creationism. Bendira asked for a recommendation, and he got one. If a man who believes in evolution debates with creationism, and, at the end of his rope, asks for a few books to help him get acquainted with their views, then it would make sense to respond with a few books on YEC.

[Natapoc]

It's too convenient. I believe it could happen, I just don't believe I nor anyone could convince my (their) friends to try to be communists for a camping trip.

I didn't convince my friends to have a communist camping trip. I only realized the parallels between our trip and anarcho-communism in hindsight.

See I had a different type of camping trip where everyone pitched in, helped, and shared where needed without even being asked.

[Xomic]

GT, in another thread, Cat tribes tried his darnest to get Bendira to read books like the Leviathan . When he says "one of "those"" people, he means one of those people who've actually spent the time to read such political works and understand what's going on, and thus you've been infected... with knowledge!

But he'll likely claim you've been brain washed by Columbian drug lords or something.

*gasp*

Is there a cure, Doctor?

10ccs of ignorancodean!

[Bendira]

I didn't convince my friends to have a communist camping trip. I only realized the parallels between our trip and anarcho-communism in hindsight.

See I had a different type of camping trip where everyone pitched in, helped, and shared where needed without even being asked.

Lol, I want friends like yours.

[Vandengaarde]

If the young, suspicious people are supposed to be the Tea Party, they're a bunch of old people complaining about things they are uninformed about. What I mean to say is: They're typical old people, just gangs of old people.

[Abbury]

Admittedly true. Anarcho-capitalism/Extreme minarchism, just doesn't have the same effect in painting a world, especially since explaining it in any sense usually means a trip down the dull lane of economic thought. Telling a girl (or any person) you believe in world where every person shared everything and lived in peace is a lot sexier then explaining the problems of a moneyless economy. From personal experience I can tell you that. Because literally I once debated a girl over the issues with a money-less economy.

It is the reason smart people with very high IQ like me and you are 17 years old virgins.......we right-libertarians,being socially retards(most my friends, RANDIAN LIBERTARIANS, are disproportionaly virgin and single), don't understand that destroy girl's emotional collectivist beliefs lead them to give their pussy to some "cool" guy

imho

1) NEVER DEBATE A GIRL about politics (most female are socialists because women are less logical and more bleeding heart but there are a lot of conservative women)
2)if she ask about your politics change subject to football,bear or music...she will think "woooooooooooot what a cooooool guys" because for some reason have an actual position about politic of "serious" issue is uncool

[Natapoc]

Take your misogyny somewhere else.

[Vandengaarde]

Take your misogyny somewhere else.

You probably already know this, but he's a troll, and your comments are beef added to his platter.

Which is especially bad, since you're a vegan. Why do you have beef?

[The Adrian Empire]

I didn't convince my friends to have a communist camping trip. I only realized the parallels between our trip and anarcho-communism in hindsight.

See I had a different type of camping trip where everyone pitched in, helped, and shared where needed without even being asked.

Again too convenient. Not that I don't believe it's possible again, just sounds too darn convenient.

I should expand here for discussion purposes, I don't think a camping trip proves either of your points here. That Benidra's "collectivist camp" fell through into An-Cap and yours worked fine, says nothing of how we should organize society. No one is denying people can work collectively, indeed camping is a experience much like that of our early primitive ancestors who at least to our knowledge were communist in a sense, if communism is to work anywhere, then it would work in a small groups of known associates with survival depending on each member's cooperation, there is no need to organize resources, if it comes to it they can easily come together and vote on the use of said resources being tight-knit enough not to be angered over the results of said vote.

Capitalism is very much a system of the civilized world. Though I have no doubt that it would work in a small group it isn't necessary there. That is why families even in a absolute capitalist environment are organized on shared property, common goals and cooperation, as survival depends on said cooperation, the child won't survive without the parent, one spouse may be dependent on the other, individual property inside this relationship would not necessarily be additionally constructive to the small-scale shared property, since the nature of proprietorship still exists in all members.

[Bendira]

Again too convenient. Not that I don't believe it's possible again, just sounds too darn convenient.

I should expand here for discussion purposes, I don't think a camping trip proves either of your points here. That Benidra's "collectivist camp" fell through into An-Cap and yours worked fine, says nothing of how we should organize society. No one is denying people can work collectively, indeed camping is a experience much like that of our early primitive ancestors who at least to our knowledge were communist in a sense, if communism is to work anywhere, then it would work in a small groups of known associates with survival depending on each member's cooperation, there is no need to organize resources, if it comes to it they can easily come together and vote on the use of said resources being tight-knit enough not to be angered over the results of said vote.

Well obviously our camping experiences don't PROVE or DISPROVE anything. There are a lot of outside variables, like the possibility that my friends are just total assholes and Natapoc's aren't. But its one experience that seems to corroborate the idea that a collectivist society would most likely fall into free trade.

And I think the anarcho-communist version of what you are talking about is Syndicalism. I think Syndicalism advocates democracy amongst workers.

[Jello Biafra]

I imagine it's been said already, but the reason why the mafia is bad is because they violate the social contract, whereas the state(typically) does not.

The problem I have with anarcho-communism/socialism is that ultimately it can't be anarchic, though it could be a fully democratic society, however it would not lack a state, a state is necessary to organize the resources in the absence of property, except in the case of primitivism.

Why is there a requirement of a state? Does Wal-Mart require a state to distribute resources through the company?

It can't allow full freedom because it does not allow property, and property is necessary for true individual freedom.

Whether or not this is true or not, you should be aware that personal property is different than private property. It's a given that private property would be banned, but most likely not personal property.

[The Adrian Empire]

It is the reason smart people with very high IQ like me and you are 17 years old virgins.......we right-libertarians,being socially retards(most my friends, RANDIAN LIBERTARIANS, are disproportionaly virgin and single), don't understand that destroy girl's emotional collectivist beliefs lead them to give their pussy to some "cool" guy

imho

1) NEVER DEBATE A GIRL about politics (most female are socialists because women are less logical and more bleeding heart but there are a lot of conservative women)
2)if she ask about your politics change subject to football,bear or music...she will think "woooooooooooot what a cooooool guys" because for some reason have an actual position about politic of "serious" issue is uncool

You.... did not win a friend there. I neither appreciate your insinuation that women are somehow logically inferior to men or that they are all bleeding heart collectivists that "give up" themselves to "idiot cool guys". Or the assumption I am social retard, I am a very popular person, my main problem with girls isn't social awkwardness but lack of confidence, my politics I was simply joking does not help. I am certainly confident and while a little unorthodox not at all awkward in social conversations, my only problem comes with girls that I like. But this is not the place for this.

While women it can be proven are disproportionately left-leaning, I don't think we should assume that anyone around are age is even basically economically literate, debates with smart girls can be fun if your polite about it. Most importantly, you shouldn't assume a girl is stupid, an I frankly am unimpressed by your belief that women can be so easily swayed, if you want to know why your awkward, assuming any none political conversation is that of plebeian babble differently hurts you. Conversations of music, interest people of our age more then economics. Sad but true.

[Sailsia]

I have an analogy for ya too!

You live in a large city, where pretty much everyone lives in an apartment. In this apartment, they have a:
TV
Phone
Computer
Smart Phone

This city is also part of a large nation, in which corporations have ALL the control. They can influence politicians, create their own private police forces, patent genes, own ALL water rights including rain, and generally do/own anything they want. Eventually the young people in this city in this country realize that all of their technology has cameras and tracking devises in them, and are outraged. They call out for sweeping regulations. (this also happens after their water supply is too expensive for even the "middle class" to afford) but the corporations respond by teaching what children are actually in their private schools, that as long as the market is free, they are free, and that privacy is simply a trade off for all the luxuries that they work for (but cannot all afford). Eventually the children believe this. They work all of their lives at low wages, living in now run-down apartments, mostly living off of black-market goods.



Well, thats sort of part one, and no, it wasn't really an analogy, thats YOUR desired future, no? But OH YES, you wouldn't be one of THOSE people, you would thrive in that world! Well, maybe you would, but I would have to ask:
How rich are your parents?

[Sith Korriban]

I would agree if you are only looking at the collection of taxes. I think the collection of taxes as well as what the taxes go to pay for makes it as evil if not more evil then slavery.

Oh, isn't that just precious?

How about no.

Last I checked, my government isn't entitled to rape me, whore me out, beat me half to death for answering back, whip me for failing a task, force me to bear a child or wetnurse the child of a master, or to starve or chain or torture me...

How about you get a bloody clue about slavery vs taxation?

I understand (only not) if the idea of having your precious moneys taken away scares you, but it is nothing compared to the bodily and mental violation suffered by those in the grip of slavery.

Please do not cheapen or insult their suffering with your childish comparisons to taxation.

[Vandengaarde]

I would agree if you are only looking at the collection of taxes. I think the collection of taxes as well as what the taxes go to pay for makes it as evil if not more evil then slavery.

Oh, isn't that just precious?

How about no.

Last I checked, my government isn't entitled to rape me, whore me out, beat me half to death for answering back, whip me for failing a task, force me to bear a child or wetnurse the child of a master, or to starve or chain or torture me...

How about you get a bloody clue about slavery vs taxation?

I understand (only not) if the idea of having your precious moneys taken away scares you, but it is nothing compared to the bodily and mental violation suffered by those in the grip of slavery.

Don't tell him that the government has the ego to put their own NAME on the money, like they made it and own it or something!