Did Christine O'Donnell pass High School Civics?

[Angleter]

Yes, she probably did. But now she might not have.

[You-Gi-Owe]

Does the public school system teach civics anymore?

I had to go to college to get into an intro to civics course.

[The Black Forrest]

Does the public school system teach civics anymore?

I had to go to college to get into an intro to civics course.

Depends on the school.

[Ashmoria]

Separation of Church and State is not in the Bill of Rights, but rather, an interpretation.

the phrase isnt...but mr coons was fully discussing that as ms odonnell interupted him as if he were utterly wrong in his understanding of what is in the constitution.

[Tokyoni]

Does the public school system teach civics anymore?

I had to go to college to get into an intro to civics course.

I can confirm that at least in Wisconsin, that's the case. Mandatory at that. But that state has one of the better funded education systems in the US (not saying much though, since there were still budget crises there), so who the fuck knows in other states.

[West America]

1st Amendment to the Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Technically, it really doesn't say anything there about "seperation", only that the government can't establish a state church. I believe it was actually put in there to prevent the government from making a "Church of the United States", along the lines of the Church of England.

[The Voltania]

Does the public school system teach civics anymore?

I had to go to college to get into an intro to civics course.

I can confirm that at least in Wisconsin, that's the case. Mandatory at that. But that state has one of the better funded education systems in the US (not saying much though, since there were still budget crises there), so who the fuck knows in other states.

Bet you $5 it's not taught in Oklahoma public schools.

[Jingoist Hippostan]

clarence thomas actually made the argument somewhere that even though the first ammendment says the CONGRESS cant establish a religion that doesnt mean that the STATES cant establish a religion. (how did he get onto the supreme court?)

The thing with Thomas is, he isn't stupid. You don't get to be on the supreme court by being stupid. Hell, the famous "high tech lynching for uppity negroes" quote is genius. He actually managed to turn a complaint of him putting pubes on someone's soda into a racist witch hunt. No stupid person could so thoroughly distort an issue and make it work.

The thing with Thomas is, he's just batshit. He's fucking bonkers. Check out this from Morse v. Fredrick (the "Bong Hits For Jesus" case)

The First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech.” As this Court has previously observed, the First Amendment was not originally understood to permit all sorts of speech; instead, “[t]here are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any Constitutional problem.”

/un-derail

[Vonners]

Does the public school system teach civics anymore?

I had to go to college to get into an intro to civics course.

all I know is I had to take as a high school freshman...and Modern American History (I think that's what it was called...it was a long long time ago and much beer and drugs consumed since then )

[Bluth Corporation]

That's true.

In fact, the Congregationalist Church was the established state church of Connectitut until 1812, and of Massachusetts until 1833. They were able to do this because there was no prohibition on it at the time.

It's the Fourteenth Amendment, which wasn't adopted until much later (Reconstruction-era), that takes care of state establishment of churches.

yeah but thomas says its ok NOW, not then.

Based on the way you characterized it in your first post, he was saying no such thing--he was just saying that it's not the First Amendment that prevents the individual states from establishing their own religion (which is quite correct).

[The Black Forrest]

I can confirm that at least in Wisconsin, that's the case. Mandatory at that. But that state has one of the better funded education systems in the US (not saying much though, since there were still budget crises there), so who the fuck knows in other states.

Bet you $5 it's not taught in Oklahoma public schools.

They have schools in Oklahoma?

[Bluth Corporation]

1st Amendment to the Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Technically, it really doesn't say anything there about "seperation", only that the government can't establish a state church. I believe it was actually put in there to prevent the government from making a "Church of the United States", along the lines of the Church of England.

That's part of it.

The other, and more interesting, part of it is that many religious leaders (specifically, evangelical Christians) did not want an established religion not so much out of a love for pluralism but because they feared that close state involvement in the church would corrupt the church.

[Jingoist Hippostan]

Does the public school system teach civics anymore?

I had to go to college to get into an intro to civics course.

I had a government class in high school, but the national government class was flaming propaganda and the teacher probably would've voted for a candidate like this.

For example, at one point I was called upon to answer this question:

"How might the religion of Islam conflict with our core American values of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?"

I was also told that we were a Christian nation. She responded to me point out that wasn't true by saying there were "one or two" atheists and that Deism was "a kind of Christianity." That's like saying the Hare Krishnas are a "kind" of Hinduism. I mean...it's kind of true...but not really. Hell, that's kind of like saying Christianity is a kind of Judaism.

[The Voltania]

Bet you $5 it's not taught in Oklahoma public schools.

They have schools in Oklahoma?

[Tekania]

1st Amendment to the Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Technically, it really doesn't say anything there about "seperation", only that the government can't establish a state church. I believe it was actually put in there to prevent the government from making a "Church of the United States", along the lines of the Church of England.

There are two edges actually, establish/prohibit... That is, they cannot establish a state church, nor can they prohibit private religious beliefs.... Which is the essence of the concept of "separation" as it was outlined by Jefferson to Virginia's legislature when the US Constitution was being presented for ratification.

The 14th Amendment incorporates the 1st into the states.... Though most states already have state-level constitutional prohibitions mandating a separation of Church and state anyway.

[Ashmoria]

clarence thomas actually made the argument somewhere that even though the first ammendment says the CONGRESS cant establish a religion that doesnt mean that the STATES cant establish a religion. (how did he get onto the supreme court?)

The thing with Thomas is, he isn't stupid. You don't get to be on the supreme court by being stupid. Hell, the famous "high tech lynching for uppity negroes" quote is genius. He actually managed to turn a complaint of him putting pubes on someone's soda into a racist witch hunt. No stupid person could so thoroughly distort an issue and make it work.

The thing with Thomas is, he's just batshit. He's fucking bonkers. Check out this from Morse v. Fredrick (the "Bong Hits For Jesus" case)

The First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech.” As this Court has previously observed, the First Amendment was not originally understood to permit all sorts of speech; instead, “[t]here are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any Constitutional problem.”

/un-derail

im not sure it is a hijack to talk about where ms odonnell gets the idea that "seperation of church and state" isnt part of the constitution.

[Vonners]

No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

I did post the video so you could make up your own mind...

Nice try though;)

It's impossible you're misinterpreting her actions? It's totally impossible? There is no chance at all?

Do you really think "Should politicians have at least a basic understanding of their nations constitution?" is going to produce discussion? Is anyone going to stand up and fight for the right of politicians to not know how the government works?

Even if you did post the video, that doesn't change the implications of the thread title.

No. No. No. Yes. Yes. Bollocks.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Alot of people seem to confuse Freedom of Religion with Freedom from Religion... theres a difference. Separation of church and state does not appear in the constitution, or the Bill of Rights. You are free to practice or not practice, no laws can be made regarding such... theres nothing more stated. O'Donnell has a point, and everyone has their own interpretation.
Ya, Jefferson has a letter talking to a friend about it, but I believe even that letter is spun by a specific interpretation.

[Cannot think of a name]

(Sigh) Another effort by the Left to label the Tea Party and the Right as a whole as idiots.

HERE'S my answer to this...

*Stomps on one Leftist, then eats another*

Thank you!

*Departs*

You're a little too committed to this whole 'I'm a dinosaur' thing...you know that the RP forums are up the page a little bit, yeah?

[Jingoist Hippostan]

Alot of people seem to confuse Freedom of Religion with Freedom from Religion... theres a difference. Separation of church and state does not appear in the constitution, or the Bill of Rights. You are free to practice or not practice, no laws can be made regarding such... theres nothing more stated. O'Donnell has a point, and everyone has their own interpretation.
Ya, Jefferson has a letter talking to a friend about it, but I believe even that letter is spun by a specific interpretation.

Here's my theory:


Many people view atheism as a "religion." Probably falsely, although I have run into a few who appear to have blind faith in Richard Dawkins. Nonetheless, if you view atheism as a religion (As O'Donnell probably does) than you could interpret the establishment cause as prohibiting an establishment of all religions, including atheism. Therefore, by not establishing a religion you're establishing atheism, which means you're...

Wow, thinking rarely makes my head hurt this much. I think the pain and the way I keep pausing in typing and saying "Wait..wha..huh?" out loud indicates I'm on the right track for O'Donnell's thoughts.

[The Black Forrest]

Alot of people seem to confuse Freedom of Religion with Freedom from Religion... theres a difference. Separation of church and state does not appear in the constitution, or the Bill of Rights. You are free to practice or not practice, no laws can be made regarding such... theres nothing more stated. O'Donnell has a point, and everyone has their own interpretation.
Ya, Jefferson has a letter talking to a friend about it, but I believe even that letter is spun by a specific interpretation.

Madison spoke if it as well.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1920731

You can't have freedom of religion without having freedom from religion.

No Religious test should be required for office or anything else for that matter......

[MisanthropicPopulism]

Many people view atheism as a "religion." Probably falsely, although I have run into a few who appear to have blind faith in Richard Dawkins.

Was it the otters? I bet it was the otters.

[Farnhamia]

Many people view atheism as a "religion." Probably falsely, although I have run into a few who appear to have blind faith in Richard Dawkins.

Was it the otters? I bet it was the otters.

There are otters? I love otters!

Here's Maureen Dowd's take on how it's become chic to be ignorant.

[Conserative Morality]

Does the public school system teach civics anymore?

I had to go to college to get into an intro to civics course.

Here in Maryland we have Local, State, and Federal Government which is a required class and probably quite similar.

[Trotskylvania]

1st Amendment to the Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Technically, it really doesn't say anything there about "seperation", only that the government can't establish a state church. I believe it was actually put in there to prevent the government from making a "Church of the United States", along the lines of the Church of England.

No, it doesn't just say that the government can't establish a state religion. It also prohibits the Congress from passing any law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

These two clauses taken together clearly mandate separation of church and state.