Christian Theology Thread

[Angleter]

Josephus' work was certainly a 1st century piece about Judaean history in general, and so would not have mentioned Jesus' existence were it not an event of any significance in Judaean history.

Furthermore, your dismissal of the Bible dismisses with it all the in-depth scholarly analysis of the New Testament to determine its varying degrees of truth. Indeed, according to Wikipedia, the notion that Jesus was simply a mythical being is rejected by the scholarly orthodoxy.

I think they reject it because they would all be out of a job if the focus of their careers was completely and utterly exposed as a fictional creation. Imagine if thousands of scholars spent their entire lives across the span of two thousand years writing about and discussing to death the various possibilities of Popeye the Sailor Man and then had to face the fact that he was just a made up comic strip character.

I could picture quite a bit of screaming and denial at the declaration that the emperor had no clothes.

There would be plenty of things to debate and interpret in the Bible and otherwise even if Jesus were proven to be non-existent, such as where these stories originated and how Jesus was created. There's no reason for a cabal of scholars to protect the idea of Jesus' existence, and to think so is about as credible as most other anti-expert theories.

EDIT: What Arch said.

[Terraius]

You calling me a liar, kid? Better you don't.

For the most part Im not going to respond to your replies, because you either a) Twisted my words around in an attempt to show I was saying something I wasnt or b) threw out some sort of insult. Clam down, this thread has been civil and lets keep it that way.

Still haven't found God out there. One thing all people should agree with though is it ain't human and to think so would be the highest conceit.

Hes not a man, and hes not in this universe, so both attempts are naturally futile.

It is. I am Catholic and, I know this will sound heretical of me to the more devout, I've never seen the Eucharist as Transubstantiation. I never see it as the transformed body and blood of Jesus. To me it's a rather taste neutral, round piece of flat bread.

Ive also seen you defend abortion, and with the greatest respect due and no hard intended, I dont think you should be calling yourself Catholic since you are not practicing it accordingly.

Em, I think you misunderstood my point, Angleter. When I say I don't see the Transubstantiation, I don't mean it as me believing in it being cannibalism or necrophagia. Far from it. I know of it's symbolism, but I have never believed, as some Catholics do, that it is an actual transformation of the body and blood of Christ. My grandmother is one such Catholic, she believes that the Eucharist is the actual blood and body of Jesus.

Exactly, and sadly we cant be Cafeteria Catholics and pick and choose what we get to believe. I suggest you talk to your parish priest and get some guidance on what would be best for you, to reinforce your Catholicism or seek aid in another denomination that would better house you and your beliefs.

You know, I think I identify as Catholic because of tradition. Nothing more nothing less. I haven't stepped inside a church in years, to actually listen to Mass, let alone have Confession.

Again, this adds to my point I brought up.

Right. My point was that it is just as errant in relation to Vatican teaching to suggest that the Eucharist is scientifically a lump of flesh and a cup of blood as it is to suggest that it is merely symbolically Jesus' body and blood. It's more somewhere in the middle, whereby- as I said- the bread becomes Jesus' body in bread form and the wine his blood in wine form.

You can look at it that way, yes. It is his blood and body in bread form. The Holy Spirit is in all things so therefore Jesus is in all things, including the Bread and Wine which he specifically choose as the articles of his Eucharist.

[Kyr Shorn]

<snip>

Arch, I don't appreciate having my words twisted around to mean things that were not implied or said whatsoever. I did not take any sort of new tact, the Bible is and has been discredited as a work of history, unless you really think that there was a global flood, enslavement of the entire Jewish race in Egypt (which Definitely never happened), and that all humans are descended from a man made out of dust and a rib woman who is responsible for all our "sins" because she ate an apple because a serpent told her to do so.

Also no one outlined anything, only two writers were cited Josephus and Tacitus and as you yourself noted, Josephus isn't reliable for this sort of discussion and Tacitus' work wasn't "on the scene" but rather done well beyond the timeframe of the supposed life of Jesus Christ and was more focused on the cult that had emerged worshiping this figure as the Messiah.

I did kinda come off as a conspiracy nut earlier but the fact that hardly anyone is even questioning the sheer lack of evidence for the existence of a physical Jesus Christ is in my mind even more insane. For a figure that has impacted our world in such a massive (and in my view a negative way), there isn't really much outside of legends and myths for an actual person behind the curtain as it were.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Though I don't believe in Christianity, a random quote came to mind.

"If you're going to blame God for all the shit in the world, you have to give him credit what grows from the fertilized soil."

I don't pretend to be a Christian, but it seems to me that they believe life is a test by God, and that it all has a good purpose, even it doesn't seem that way.

[Kalynosis]

Ive also seen you defend abortion, and with the greatest respect due and no hard intended, I dont think you should be calling yourself Catholic since you are not practicing it accordingly.

LOL Funny shit

[Little Italy-Pornolia]

this thread sucks fucking monkey balls, everybody is sharing their points accordingly... some more trolling please!

[Terraius]

Though I don't believe in Christianity, a random quote came to mind.

"If you're going to blame God for all the shit in the world, you have to give him credit what grows from the fertilized soil."

I don't pretend to be a Christian, but it seems to me that they believe life is a test by God, and that it all has a good purpose, even it doesn't seem that way.

Catholics dont exactly believe that life is just a test. We dont know why God put us here, obviously we arnt God so we dont know.

Jesus summed up the entirety of life as explained in the Old and New books, when a man approached him and challenged him to preach the commandments on one foot. He said:

"Love God with all your heart, soul, and might, and love your neighbor as yourself."

If you ever want to ever sum up the entirety of the Bible in one sentence, that is how to do it. Love God, Love others as you would yourself, and be a all around good person. Alas gentlemen, the greatest scandal of the modern world, a man teaching his followers to love eachother and to live good lives. Come now Atheists, strike us down with your moral high ground and shatter the foundation that is loving one another!

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Though I don't believe in Christianity, a random quote came to mind.

"If you're going to blame God for all the shit in the world, you have to give him credit what grows from the fertilized soil."

I don't pretend to be a Christian, but it seems to me that they believe life is a test by God, and that it all has a good purpose, even it doesn't seem that way.

Catholics dont exactly believe that life is just a test. We dont know why God put us here, obviously we arnt God so we dont know.

Jesus summed up the entirety of life as explained in the Old and New books, when a man approached him and challenged him to preach the commandments on one foot. He said:

"Love God with all your heart, soul, and might, and love your neighbor as yourself."

If you ever want to ever sum up the entirety of the Bible in one sentence, that is how to do it. Love God, Love others as you would yourself, and be a all around good person. Alas gentlemen, the greatest scandal of the modern world, a man teaching his followers to love eachother and to live good lives. Come now Atheists, strike us down with your moral high ground and shatter the foundation that is loving one another!

I'll mention the case of those kids getting bullied to death for being gay.

[Terraius]

I'll mention the case of those kids getting bullied to death for being gay.

Im not mentioning it again. Read back in the thread and stop being ignorant. I already went through this, a Christian who condones the bashing of Gays is not a Christian by practice, and defiantly not a Catholic, which such heniousy would end up getting you excommunicated.

I wrote a few lengthy paragraphs going over the issue, multiple times.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

I'll mention the case of those kids getting bullied to death for being gay.

Im not mentioning it again. Read back in the thread and stop being ignorant. I already went through this, a Christian who condones the bashing of Gays is not a Christian by practice, and defiantly not a Catholic, which such heniousy would end up getting you excommunicated.

I wrote a few lengthy paragraphs going over the issue, multiple times.

Link, please? I didn't bother reading the whole thread, I admit to being lazy. Sorry.

[Terraius]

Im not mentioning it again. Read back in the thread and stop being ignorant. I already went through this, a Christian who condones the bashing of Gays is not a Christian by practice, and defiantly not a Catholic, which such heniousy would end up getting you excommunicated.

I wrote a few lengthy paragraphs going over the issue, multiple times.

Link, please? I didn't bother reading the whole thread, I admit to being lazy. Sorry.

No, I dont remember where it was, Ive made so many posts in this thread it would take forever.

Ignorance is a shackle. Dont let it bind you. Your previous statement was about as meritable as calling all whites racists because of the KKK, or calling all Hispanic Americans illegals because of Mexican nationals fleeing across the border. You should know better then that.

[Kyr Shorn]

I'll mention the case of those kids getting bullied to death for being gay.

Im not mentioning it again. Read back in the thread and stop being ignorant. I already went through this, a Christian who condones the bashing of Gays is not a Christian by practice, and defiantly not a Catholic, which such heniousy would end up getting you excommunicated.

I wrote a few lengthy paragraphs going over the issue, multiple times.

No offence but this is pretty much a textbook version of "No True Scotsman"...

[Osthia]

Well, this thread is, as the title suggests, a Christian theology thread. So Christians...

-What is your denomination?
-Why do you follow that denomination?
-What major issues do you have with certain other denominations?

Then those issues shall be open to argument discussion, etc., etc., etc. And non-Christians...

-What is your religion or lack thereof?
-What major issues do you have with certain denominations, or with Christianity as a whole?

Then people of different denominations provide their views, and from there there'll be argument and discussion. So there we go.

EDIT: Discussion is intended to centre on Christian theological issues, not on the subject of God's existence as a whole.

I am a Roman Catholic, and I follow that denomination because I was born a Catholic, and I have no intention to change that. I hate the fact that most Protestant friends of mine, when I tell them that I am Catholic, they immediately call me a "fag" or "pedophile" or "child molestor." Yes, some priests did do that, but it gives them no right to call me such things! Their priests are guilty of it too, so I suggest they watch what they say. I do not have enough time to go to Mass every Sunday, but I pray whenever I can, and I do believe that God is watching out for me.

[Terraius]

Im not mentioning it again. Read back in the thread and stop being ignorant. I already went through this, a Christian who condones the bashing of Gays is not a Christian by practice, and defiantly not a Catholic, which such heniousy would end up getting you excommunicated.

I wrote a few lengthy paragraphs going over the issue, multiple times.

No offence but this is pretty much a textbook version of "No True Scotsman"...

You, are also being bound by ignorance. I will pray for both of you, because it is a sad day to see all Christians grouped and persecuted because of the actions of some self identified ones who were engaging in illegal homophobic activity.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Link, please? I didn't bother reading the whole thread, I admit to being lazy. Sorry.

No, I dont remember where it was, Ive made so many posts in this thread it would take forever.

Ignorance is a shackle. Dont let it bind you. Your previous statement was about as meritable as calling all whites racists because of the KKK, or calling all Hispanic Americans illegals because of Mexican nationals fleeing across the border. You should know better then that.

I merely said some Christians were assholes, not all. I know quite a few asshole Hindus.

[Terraius]

I am a Roman Catholic, and I follow that denomination because I was born a Catholic, and I have no intention to change that. I hate the fact that most Protestant friends of mine, when I tell them that I am Catholic, they immediately call me a "fag" or "pedophile" or "child molestor." Yes, some priests did do that, but it gives them no right to call me such things! Their priests are guilty of it too, so I suggest they watch what they say. I do not have enough time to go to Mass every Sunday, but I pray whenever I can, and I do believe that God is watching out for me.

'What good is a man if his mind is to lay waste and Wisdom lost to let ignorance proliferate his life and bind him like a shackle to a prisoner?'

Pray for them as well. Ignorance, is, the scourge of the world, the root of all evil.

Also, try to go to Mass at least once a week, I know most parishes have small services throughout the week. Catholic Masses dont tend to last over an hour at most unlike our Protestant misguided cousins : P

[Terraius]

No, I dont remember where it was, Ive made so many posts in this thread it would take forever.

Ignorance is a shackle. Dont let it bind you. Your previous statement was about as meritable as calling all whites racists because of the KKK, or calling all Hispanic Americans illegals because of Mexican nationals fleeing across the border. You should know better then that.

I merely said some Christians were assholes, not all. I know quite a few asshole Hindus.

Then do not imply that we all are by saying 'Ill bring up the case of the gays who were bullied to death'. It is insulting to be grouped with evil people, when you devote your entire life to fighting and warding off evil in yourself and others as I do everyday.

[Osthia]

I am a Roman Catholic, and I follow that denomination because I was born a Catholic, and I have no intention to change that. I hate the fact that most Protestant friends of mine, when I tell them that I am Catholic, they immediately call me a "fag" or "pedophile" or "child molestor." Yes, some priests did do that, but it gives them no right to call me such things! Their priests are guilty of it too, so I suggest they watch what they say. I do not have enough time to go to Mass every Sunday, but I pray whenever I can, and I do believe that God is watching out for me.

'What good is a man if his mind is to lay waste and Wisdom lost to let ignorance proliferate his life and bind him like a shackle to a prisoner?'

Pray for them as well. Ignorance, is, the scourge of the world, the root of all evil.

Also, try to go to Mass at least once a week, I know most parishes have small services throughout the week. Catholic Masses dont tend to last over an hour at most unlike our Protestant misguided cousins : P

Thank you for your support. And, just to let people know so that I am not called a homophobe, not all Catholics, including me, are "homophobes." Blame that on some stupid people who took the Old Testament way too seriously, and said, "Hey, let's say being gay is a sin." This is not just a fault for some Catholics, but as well as for some other religions, like Islam, Judaism, and several parts of Protestantism (remember the German Protestant Hitler?). I hate people who try to use the Bible to say some people are bad for being born the way they are. In fact, in the New Testament, does the Lord not say repeatedly "Love one another as I have loved you?" Why the hate towards our fellow brothers and sisters? Also, today was a day to commemorate the people who killed themselves because of online bullying. I urge you not to be cruel towards your fellow Man, as it has consequences that could change someone forever. May God have mercy on those people who took their life to escape the pain of the world. These people were homosexual, and hearing these stories makes me want to cry all the more for these targeted persons.

[Terraius]

Thank you for your support. And, just to let people know so that I am not called a homophobe, not all Catholics, including me, are "homophobes." Blame that on some stupid people who took the Old Testament way too seriously, and said, "Hey, let's say being gay is a sin." This is not just a fault for some Catholics, but as well as for some other religions, like Islam, Judaism, and several parts of Protestantism (remember the German Protestant Hitler?). I hate people who try to use the Bible to say some people are bad for being born the way they are. In fact, in the New Testament, does the Lord not say repeatedly "Love one another as I have loved you?" Why the hate towards our fellow brothers and sisters? Also, today was a day to commemorate the people who killed themselves because of online bullying. I urge you not to be cruel towards your fellow Man, as it has consequences that could change someone forever. May God have mercy on those people who took their life to escape the pain of the world. These people were homosexual, and hearing these stories makes me want to cry all the more for these targeted persons.

You are correct in that we should not persecute them, but, we must recognize that Jesus himself said that it is a woman and man who shall be bounded in matrimony. To say it is a Sin to be Homosexual in itself is taking a bit far, yes, and even if he did say it was a sin, it is not our place to judge.

I agree with you, I dont see why we should try to persecute them for being gay. The only thing I am against is the Church wedding or recognizing their matrimony for it is invalid. Im infavor of Gay partnership in legality, because they deserve as many legal rights as us, but religiously speaking, their matrimony's should be considered invalid or nonexistant.

[NERVUN]

this thread sucks fucking monkey balls, everybody is sharing their points accordingly... some more trolling please!

Let's not. It wouldn't make me all that happy.

[Terraius]

this thread sucks fucking monkey balls, everybody is sharing their points accordingly... some more trolling please!

Let's not. It wouldn't make me all that happy.

Cant believe I actually didnt catch that, lol. Yeah lets not.. o.O

[Panzerjaeger]

Me be Mormon.

[St George of England]

Not been to church to in several years, and don't really believe any more, but I thought I'd vote anyway. I was born, and dedicated as, a baptist, although Baptism in the UK is much different to the American Baptists.

What I do not understand, and perhaps another poster could explain this to me, is why churches ask for donations when the Church of England is worth £4 billion on the stock market and the Catholic Church even more.

[Terraius]

Not been to church to in several years, and don't really believe any more, but I thought I'd vote anyway. I was born, and dedicated as, a baptist, although Baptism in the UK is much different to the American Baptists.

What I do not understand, and perhaps another poster could explain this to me, is why churches ask for donations when the Church of England is worth £4 billion on the stock market and the Catholic Church even more.

Firstly we were told to contribute 10% (will edit in scriptural passage when I find it), secondly because 90% of the time the Churches tend to spend the funds on good causes. EVERY major church (Catholic, Othordox, Anglican, and Major Protestant sects) has large sums of money they take in due to donations, etc. Most of the time they do spend it on just causes.

The church has to pay bills, just as anyone else. Priests and clergy need compensation and pay for the cost of living they endure since they are not working. Mission work, donations, etc. Just today I picked up a copy of the October Magnificat at my parish. The funds to buy that book were more then likely supplied by the Church.

Its little things that add up, if you look at the big picture. At any point in time I can go to my parish and get free clothes, shoes, food, shelter, bibles, etc, because the Church has money it receives from tithes and can do these things.

[Terraius]

"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:8

"If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19:21

In Pauls letter to the Hebrews, in Chapter 7:1-12

"But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone." Luke 11:42

“Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” 2 Corinthians 9:7

"Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. " 1 Corinthians 16:1–2

"A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord." Leviticus 27:30

“Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering." Numbers 18:26

"As soon as the order went out, the Israelites generously gave the firstfruits of their grain, new wine, oil and honey and all that the fields produced. They brought a great amount, a tithe of everything." 2 Chronicles 31:5