Multiculturalism Has Failed: Your Experience

[Old Erisia]

Employer's fault for not checking. In my past three jobs, there was a lot of paper work to file.

Isn't in their best interest not to? As long as the business pays income tax the gov doesn't seem to care. Its actually beneficial for the country as the worker can't file a tax return.

[Old Erisia]

Employer's fault for not checking. In my past three jobs, there was a lot of paper work to file.

Are you a citizen? How did you have to prove it?

Not to mention those are internal records.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

No.

/thread. (in an ideal world)

In an ideal world I would be making a joke here about how multiculturalism hasn't failed because with the evidence being how well I've been getting along with women of different cultures in my city, but this world is less than ideal so I will restrain myself.

i think i hear a violin playing.

[Norstal]

Employer's fault for not checking. In my past three jobs, there was a lot of paper work to file.

You really think run-off the mill, suburban middle-class families will file stacks of paperwork just to hire a garderner? Or that the hiring manager gives a crap about it? They can just make an excuse "oops, I didn't know". Its no wonder that Meg Whitman wasn't arrested.

Unless the job the illegal is hiring for is a position as a chemical engineer, that's just plain silly.

[Great Darthidium]

Well its obvious to me it failed many years ago... people naturally dont want to live together, if anyone here is white would you want to live in a black city in say nigeria? well it works the other way round, you can never integrate if you are not in the "norm" its human nature, we can "pretend" to accept other cultures but in the back of our minds we all have the same thoughts "hmm he/she isnt from around here", and that thought will never go away, whats worlse is that due to this problem the individuals that do not "fit in" they usally turn to crime (if they are badly educated) or start forming segregated towns leading to crime and the natives of nation thee living in starting to question what was the point of them coming to their country if they just form a smaller version of their country in yours.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

I may not be as manly a man as he is, but it seems to me that the native people of a nation have the right to expect to come first in their own nation.

Tell that to the Native Americans, who suffer from an even higher unemployment rate than the children of invaders and immigrants.

Native Americans are experiencing increased prospects

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

What That makes no sense whatsoever.



I may not be as manly a man as he is, but it seems to me that the native people of a nation have the right to expect to come first in their own nation.

So... Cherokee should get preference when applying for jobs?

They should get a preference over everyone else. As should the Chumash, the Sioux, the Osage, Apache, Blackfeet, Iroqouis, Cheyenne, and other US Native American groups. The only Native Americans that don't get a preference are the ones whose people are not from US territory, such as the Maya and the Aztecs and other Native Americans of Mexico and Central America.

[Norstal]

Tell that to the Native Americans, who suffer from an even higher unemployment rate than the children of invaders and immigrants.

Native Americans are experiencing increased prospects

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_poverty

Check your facts straight, yo.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

First off, if they hire an illegal, the employer is breaking the law. Report him. The person who made that sort obviously doesn't know labor laws well.

Some data on reporting: Less than 5% of people who know about illegal immigration actually report it. Of those who do the reporting, 95% of reporters are people of Mexican descent. It's fine to be an illegal as long as you are Mexican but if you are from a different country, Mexican immigrants will make your life a living hell.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

First off, if they hire an illegal, the employer is breaking the law. Report him. The person who made that sort obviously doesn't know labor laws well.

And as I've stated before, the penalty for breaking this law is a maximum of $10k fine. Not like you can put Walmart out of business or arrest the CEO or whatever for hiring illegal. Because, hey, they didn't know they are an illegal either.

The employer has to be able to prove they didn't know. Meg Whitman had evidence that her former employee had not only lied about being a citizen but had actually forged documents such as the California ID which is the easiest ID in America to forge. Even the new Cali ID's are easily forged. Every state should do what the feds do, use biometrics and a computer chip in their ID's.

The only to create unforgable ID's is into incorporate biometrics such as requiring a blood sample the print of which will be on the chip. If the a person's blood sample does not match the data on the chip, you know the card is a forgery. You would also match up other info such medical history or tax reports but only for the purpose of verifying the person is using a real ID card and not a fake.

[Old Erisia]

First off, if they hire an illegal, the employer is breaking the law. Report him. The person who made that sort obviously doesn't know labor laws well.

Some data on reporting: Less than 5% of people who know about illegal immigration actually report it. Of those who do the reporting, 95% of reporters are people of Mexican descent. It's fine to be an illegal as long as you are Mexican but if you are from a different country, Mexican immigrants will make your life a living hell.

well maybe you should provide a source for that gem, especially the part where you are implying everyone of Mexican descent is an immigrant and that they are reporting non-Mexican immigrants.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Are you a citizen? How did you have to prove it?

Not to mention those are internal records.

They are subject to review by Immigration and the IRS as well as other government agencies who are suspicious that the employer may be breaking the law.

[Norstal]

The employer has to be able to prove they didn't know. Meg Whitman had evidence that her former employee had not only lied about being a citizen but had actually forged documents such as the California ID which is the easiest ID in America to forge. Even the new Cali ID's are easily forged. Every state should do what the feds do, use biometrics and a computer chip in their ID's.

The only to create unforgable ID's is into incorporate biometrics such as requiring a blood sample the print of which will be on the chip. If the a person's blood sample does not match the data on the chip, you know the card is a forgery. You would also match up other info such medical history or tax reports but only for the purpose of verifying the person is using a real ID card and not a fake.

You mean like our passports? We do have that and it can still be forged.

Here's a thing about computer security, its a myth.

[Lacadaemon]

Source.

Multiculturalism has worked in America.
My source is the existence of Panda Express and Del Taco.

Oh and the World Trade Center was designed by a Japanese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trad ... nstruction

Though, in fairness, Panda Express could be viewed as a massive sign of failure.

[Old Erisia]

Not to mention those are internal records.

They are subject to review by Immigration and the IRS as well as other government agencies who are suspicious that the employer may be breaking the law.

The documents that you sign usually include a contract saying that you submitted only truthful, factual information, thereby alleviating the business of wrong doing.

[Norstal]

Though, in fairness, Panda Express could be viewed as a massive sign of failure.

Agreed. Now that I think about, the whole Chinese American cuisine is a failure. We now have pandas advertising P.F Chang's and Lean Cuisine.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

They are subject to review by Immigration and the IRS as well as other government agencies who are suspicious that the employer may be breaking the law.

The documents that you sign usually include a contract saying that you submitted only truthful, factual information, thereby alleviating the business of wrong doing.

Precisely. If the documents on file make a false claim of citizenship or right to work, then the employee, not the employer, is the who should and does get into trouble. There is no such thing as a right to work in a country you have entered illegally.

[Norstal]

The documents that you sign usually include a contract saying that you submitted only truthful, factual information, thereby alleviating the business of wrong doing.

Precisely. If the documents on file make a false claim of citizenship or right to work, then the employee, not the employer, is the who should and does get into trouble. There is no such thing as a right to work in a country you have entered illegally.

No, NOT The Who!

Granted, its is the employee's fault for not providing a permit to work. Even then, there will still those who don't have the proper permits. But, my solution is of a permanent one. And I will restate it again:

Pay illegal immigrants the same wage as Americans. I don't understand why people can't accept this idea.

[Old Erisia]

The documents that you sign usually include a contract saying that you submitted only truthful, factual information, thereby alleviating the business of wrong doing.

Precisely. If the documents on file make a false claim of citizenship or right to work, then the employee, not the employer, is the who should and does get into trouble. There is no such thing as a right to work in a country you have entered illegally.

Hmm I looked back because I thought you were saying otherwise. I think that was someone else.

[Grave_n_idle]

So... Cherokee should get preference when applying for jobs?

They should get a preference over everyone else. As should the Chumash, the Sioux, the Osage, Apache, Blackfeet, Iroqouis, Cheyenne, and other US Native American groups. The only Native Americans that don't get a preference are the ones whose people are not from US territory, such as the Maya and the Aztecs and other Native Americans of Mexico and Central America.

That seems rather arbitrary, since the modern borders have little to nothing to do with historic placement.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Precisely. If the documents on file make a false claim of citizenship or right to work, then the employee, not the employer, is the who should and does get into trouble. There is no such thing as a right to work in a country you have entered illegally.

No, NOT The Who!

Granted, its is the employee's fault for not providing a permit to work. Even then, there will still those who don't have the proper permits. But, my solution is of a permanent one. And I will restate it again:

Pay illegal immigrants the same wage as Americans. I don't understand why people can't accept this idea.

That would help but it is only part of the solution. To really make it a deterrent you have to backdate the law at least ten to fifteen years and make employers pay a lot of back pay and back benefits. If unscrupulous employers find themselves paying dearly for past misdeeds they will be less incline to attempt new ones.

But we can't just put all the punishment on the employer, we have to increase punishments on people who knowingly provide employers with false identity or work eligibility documents.

Both employers and employees should be punished if they both knew. In the event the employer did not know then we just check to see they paid the minimum wage and provided the minimum health coverage. If they did not, then require back pay for the difference. If the employer did know, on the other hand, then they should go to prison for conspiring to break US law.

[Lauchlin]

In an ideal world I would be making a joke here about how multiculturalism hasn't failed because with the evidence being how well I've been getting along with women of different cultures in my city, but this world is less than ideal so I will restrain myself.

i think i hear a violin playing.

More like the Debbie Does Dallas theme, amirite?

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

They should get a preference over everyone else. As should the Chumash, the Sioux, the Osage, Apache, Blackfeet, Iroqouis, Cheyenne, and other US Native American groups. The only Native Americans that don't get a preference are the ones whose people are not from US territory, such as the Maya and the Aztecs and other Native Americans of Mexico and Central America.

That seems rather arbitrary, since the modern borders have little to nothing to do with historic placement.

Most laws and have little to do with historic placement because things changed over time. Both boundaries and placement have changed. It is arbitrary but fair. Of course, by US Native American I include groups such as the Apache who do straddle the US-Mexico border. I just exclude groups, such as the Aztec, that are located entirely outside the US and who have no historical connection to US territory, despite claims to the contrary.

[Swesoc]

What do you think of the reality of multiculturalism based on your own experience, both objective and subjective in your area you live. Please state the place pr event where you had the experience. And the country/state it was held in. My experience is likely not the same. Probably not even the same as what they do in northern Cali let alone other parts of southern Cali. Can you say the event you attended was truly multicultural or was monocultural?

Multiculturalism in Sweden has always been a political tool. Now, when we have a capitalist government, it's also a tool to manipulate to job market (i.e. have everyone work for slave wages). The motive behind multiculturalism was wrong already in the first place. It shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone that it has "failed", but actually, looking from the politicians' point of view, it has been very successful, since their motive always has been to create poverty and misery to enslave the population. It is only a surprise to the people who didn't realize that 20 years ago and believed the lies about how we're doing it to save the less fortunate refugees and that it would be racism if we didn't do it (this is the propaganda that the swedish government has been pushing).

[Grave_n_idle]

That seems rather arbitrary, since the modern borders have little to nothing to do with historic placement.

Most laws and have little to do with historic placement because things changed over time.

Irrelevant. You suggested natives deserved advantage - so (current) law is off-topic for your own argument. Prioritising prior occupation can't be arbitrary - you either prioritise who is (t)here first, or you don't. And if you don't... then your suggestion didn't make any sense.