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Stop Demeaning The Word Rape

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Jingoist Hippostan
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Stop Demeaning The Word Rape

Postby Jingoist Hippostan » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:12 am

Seriously. The definition of "rape" has expanded so far that it's virtually meaningless. These days I (and many people I know) virtually assume a woman who says she was raped is lying unless she's visibly covered in bruises. The word "rape" means "I was forced to have sex against my will, and am horrifically traumatized." Not "I got drunk, and I had sex with this guy, and when I woke up the next day, like, OMG, he was totally ugly!"

Now I realize this kind of rape claim is probably not in the majority. Unfortunately, even a claim of rape not backed up by legal action can be pretty damaging to a person, along with generating a lot of attention and sympathy for the accuser.

For starters, alcohol. I'll be the first to say that if you just stick it in someone whose passed or or so drunk they're sliding in and out of consciousness and can't really tell what's going on, that's rape. On the other hand, having sex with a drunk woman is not rape. It's a bit sleazy if she's hammered, but it's not rape. When you get drunk, you accept responsibility for the actions you take while drunk. That includes who you sleep with, who you run down with your car, what you say, etc. Being drunk does not magically make it so anything you do is not your fault, despite what some people seem to think.

For another, saying no. Yeah, sorry, but if a guy has sex with you and you didn't push him away or attempt to stop him in any way, your fault. Unless of course there was fear of violence or you're mute or unconscious or otherwise couldn't do this. Not rape. The guy's probably a huge asshole, but you really should've made clear you didn't want to have sex with him. If you didn't, the incident is partially your fault.

Before anyone says it - if you're dragged off the street or in another more stereotypical "rape" scenario, you're probably going to resist. I think the victim remaining silent is more common in acquaintance or familial rape scenarios. Incest doesn't count on this one, I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect a six year old to try to make clear to her mother she doesn't want to finger her.

Seriously guys. Rape is a really, really, horrible thing. And if someone says "He raped me," then that needs to actually mean something. Throwing the word rape around to describe any time you had sex and wished you hadn't or didn't really want to is offensive on about a hundred million different levels. I certainly don't think this is incredibly common - plenty of women are hesitant about the word rape, as well they should be. The problem is, I also know of many, far less mature girls who seem to use the word like it's going out of style.

So...Agree with me, or am I horrible chauvinist asshole?
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Sdaeriji
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Postby Sdaeriji » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:18 am

Jingoist Hippostan wrote:So...Agree with me, or am I horrible chauvinist asshole?


Frankly, people like you are why rape is so seriously under-reported.
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Postby Norstal » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:20 am

What.

No, you're not a chauvinist, you're a horrible blogger.

For another, saying no. Yeah, sorry, but if a guy has sex with you and you didn't push him away or attempt to stop him in any way, your fault. Unless of course there was fear of violence or you're mute or unconscious or otherwise couldn't do this. Not rape. The guy's probably a huge asshole, but you really should've made clear you didn't want to have sex with him. If you didn't, the incident is partially your fault.


What the fuck. People can be just dragged off from the street and be raped without resistance (there was no "fear of violence, etc. because they didn't see it coming). People can say "no" and still get raped because they didn't give consent.

Seriously guys. Rape is a really, really, horrible thing. And if someone says "He raped me," then that needs to actually mean something. Throwing the word rape around to describe any time you had sex and wished you hadn't or didn't really want to is offensive on about a hundred million different levels. I certainly don't think this is incredibly common - plenty of women are hesitant about the word rape, as well they should be. The problem is, I also know of many, far less mature girls who seem to use the word like it's going out of style.


I have never heard of this situation ever happening with women. In ze great state of Cahlifonah, under age women shouldn't have sex in the first place. I did heard of a student accusing a teacher of raping her, even though there was enough evidence to prove she didn't (not to mention the court saw her smiling) but, he was later acquitted. All ends that ends well.
Last edited by Norstal on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:22 am

Oooh, I thought you meant the word being used as a joke.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Call to power » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:22 am

Jingoist Hippostan wrote:The word "rape" means "I was forced to have sex against my will, and am horrifically traumatized."


no it doesn't or rather that is quite broad term and with that your entire post falls apart like cheap toilet paper in my fingers.

this post raped my brain and my internet connection just wants to go home
Last edited by Call to power on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bottle » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:22 am

When I saw the topic, I was actually happy, because I thought maybe it was somebody speaking up about the really disgusting habit people have of tossing "rape" around in other contexts. Like, "We are totally going to rape the other team at our softball game this weekend!" Or, "Man, I just got raped by that exam, that was brutal."

But no, it's just another rape-enabling post by yet another person who is either unwilling or unable to see how they, personally, help rapists, hurt rape victims, and generally increase the likelihood of rape. *Golfclap* Cause we so needed another of those.
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:25 am

It's bad either way; I know someone who was raped but the police did nothing, yet on the other hand it's disgusting when women use rape accusations as blackmail, considering that merely being accused of rape is enough to ruin someone's life.
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Postby Call to power » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:27 am

Bottle wrote:When I saw the topic, I was actually happy, because I thought maybe it was somebody speaking up about the really disgusting habit people have of tossing "rape" around in other contexts. Like, "We are totally going to rape the other team at our softball game this weekend!" Or, "Man, I just got raped by that exam, that was brutal."


second.

I was about to be like "yeah I found myself copying it and horrifying a girl I was playing half life with" its just for some reason horrifying violent acts are acceptable to use like that in jest
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Not that you haven't been right before, but... Aw, hell, you get what I meant.

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Postby Bottle » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:49 am

Call to power wrote:
Bottle wrote:When I saw the topic, I was actually happy, because I thought maybe it was somebody speaking up about the really disgusting habit people have of tossing "rape" around in other contexts. Like, "We are totally going to rape the other team at our softball game this weekend!" Or, "Man, I just got raped by that exam, that was brutal."


second.

I was about to be like "yeah I found myself copying it and horrifying a girl I was playing half life with" its just for some reason horrifying violent acts are acceptable to use like that in jest

I'm actually kind of proud, because my partner and I have gotten my WoW guild members using "wrecked" instead of "raped" now. One small step for troll mages, one giant leap for gamer-kind...:P
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Postby Neo Art » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:49 am

If I smack you upside the head, I've committed battery. If I punch you in the face and break your nose, I've committed battery. If I beat you half to death with a baseball bat and leave you bleeding and broken in the street, I've committed battery.

The term encompases a wide range of actions. Battery is merely defined as "a harmful or offensive contact without the target's consent". As rape is merely "sexual intercourse or sexual acts committed by or against someone without that person's consent".

Any attempt to define the term more restrictive than that is your problem. The existance of gradations is why the law has terms like "aggrevated".

What you describe is "aggrevated rape".
Last edited by Neo Art on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Wilgrove » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:56 am

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.

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Postby Lauchlin » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:58 am

Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.

Stop trying to traumatize me. By that definition, I have been raped so many times. Twice in the last couple weeks, even!

I should go see a therapist.

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Postby MisanthropicPopulism » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:59 am

On the other hand, having sex with a drunk woman is not rape. It's a bit sleazy if she's hammered, but it's not rape. When you get drunk, you accept responsibility for the actions you take while drunk. That includes who you sleep with, who you run down with your car, what you say, etc. Being drunk does not magically make it so anything you do is not your fault, despite what some people seem to think.

Can we start charging everyone with rape if they are both drunk?
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Postby The Congregationists » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:00 am

Jingoist Hippostan wrote:For starters, alcohol. I'll be the first to say that if you just stick it in someone whose passed or or so drunk they're sliding in and out of consciousness and can't really tell what's going on, that's rape. On the other hand, having sex with a drunk woman is not rape. It's a bit sleazy if she's hammered, but it's not rape. When you get drunk, you accept responsibility for the actions you take while drunk. That includes who you sleep with, who you run down with your car, what you say, etc. Being drunk does not magically make it so anything you do is not your fault, despite what some people seem to think.


I think there's something to this. Like you say, taking advantage of someone unable to consent is a horrible thing. But if he has a couple of drinks and she has a couple of drinks and then have sex and this makes him guilty of rape, that I don't agree with. If intoxication can mean that you're held responsible for your actions when you get into a car, then you're also able to be responsible for your actions when you decide to have sex with someone. If it's consensual and voluntary, mere intoxication does NOT make it rape.
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Postby Wilgrove » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:00 am

Lauchlin wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.

Stop trying to traumatize me. By that definition, I have been raped so many times. Twice in the last couple weeks, even!

I should go see a therapist.


I never said it was a legal definition, it was just my own viewpoint. I would never sleep with a drunk woman because it's just not right. I mean she's drunk, she doesn't have all of her facilities running. She would probably consent to jumping off a bridge.

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Postby Sun Aut Ex » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 am

Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.


So I'm a rapist? Keep in mind that I was more drunk (when I tell the story, I usually say "She took advantage of me").
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Postby Lauchlin » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:02 am

Wilgrove wrote:
Lauchlin wrote:Stop trying to traumatize me. By that definition, I have been raped so many times. Twice in the last couple weeks, even!

I should go see a therapist.


I never said it was a legal definition, it was just my own viewpoint. I would never sleep with a drunk woman because it's just not right. I mean she's drunk, she doesn't have all of her facilities running. She would probably consent to jumping off a bridge.

You don't have a very high opinion of women, do you? Would you consent to jumping off a bridge after a few beers?

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Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:02 am

Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.


True that, though unfortunately in some girls eyes the line between 'rape' and 'disapointing sex' is thin and blurred.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Horsefish » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:03 am

Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.


If you are stone cold sober, and she's completely out of it, then it's abit iffy. If you've been drinking with that person for a while and your both drunk then it's fine.
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Postby Wilgrove » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:03 am

Sun Aut Ex wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.


So I'm a rapist? Keep in mind that I was more drunk (when I tell the story, I usually say "She took advantage of me").


Ok, so to unwad some panties. If you're NOT drunk, and she is, then it's wrong. Happy?

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Postby FroXer » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:04 am

Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.


What if both are drunk?
Is it rape then?
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Postby Wilgrove » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:04 am

Horsefish wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.


If you are stone cold sober, and she's completely out of it, then it's abit iffy. If you've been drinking with that person for a while and your both drunk then it's fine.


Well I need to clarify my opinion, I was coming from the viewpoint that the guy was sober and the girl was drunk. I have no opinion on when they're both drunk.

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Postby The Southern Dictators » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:04 am

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Postby Wilgrove » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:06 am

Lauchlin wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:
I never said it was a legal definition, it was just my own viewpoint. I would never sleep with a drunk woman because it's just not right. I mean she's drunk, she doesn't have all of her facilities running. She would probably consent to jumping off a bridge.

You don't have a very high opinion of women, do you? Would you consent to jumping off a bridge after a few beers?


How do I not have a high opinion of women? I hold them to the same standard that I hold for men. If a sober woman have sex with a drunk man, or vice versa it's wrong because alcohol doesn't impair your ability to make decision.

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Postby Wilgrove » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:07 am

FroXer wrote:
Wilgrove wrote:Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If you sleep with a drunk woman, EVEN if she gives consent while drunk, then IMHO, it's rape. You can't give proper consent when you're intoxicated.


What if both are drunk?
Is it rape then?


That's a bit iffy for me and I can't really comment on that. Mainly because I've never gotten drunk before. I've gotten buzzed, but not flat out drunk.

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