Obamacare Insurance Mandate Ruled Constitutional

[Dyakovo]

Well, if congress were to tell us what was in the Health Care Bill and not hide it from us, despite their stressing "transparency," maybe the public would do something about it.

Instead we get Nancy Pelosi...
"Let's vote on the bill, then let's read it"

That's not actually what she said...

[Mossat]

Well then, by all means, correct me, for I am a Conservative of less intellectual scale than she

[Ashmoria]

no

they are trying to deal a blow to the dems and the president.

if all they wanted to do was to FIX the bill they wouldnt be saying they want to REPEAL IT then replace it with essentially the same thing.

actually they are trying hard to not do anything at all. they are so fucking sure that they are going to win next month that they arent doing jackshit for the country.

Source for the Republicans wanting to repeal it and replace it with the same thing?

essentially the same thing.

many republican candidates have decided that it is politically unwise to say they are going to make it OK to deny babies insurance again so they have begun to say that they will re-instate the popular things.

and sinde exchanges and subsidies are republican ideas...what is left to repeal?

[The Cat-Tribe]

This is going to become the next Housing Crisis, only it's going to be in the Health Insurance industry.

I can see the entire thing falling to the ground, burning like the Hindenburg.

Oh the humanity, why can't we choose over health insurance? I'm sure that you are all aware of the fact that if you don't own health insurance you will be fined in your taxes...

That's like being fined if you don't own an American Car, or if you don't do this or don't do that. This is a socialist authoritarianism that is springing up and people won't regret it until their ability to speak out against it is taken away!

And it's not like the insurance companies can choose to give you coverage. They HAVE to give you coverage, even if they lose money in the process. The Housing Crisis came about the same way: the damn bill is passed, the banks HAVE to give you the loan for your house REGARDLESS of if you cannot pay for the house, you default, your house is foreclosed, and everyone loses in the end.

I think that this is wholly unconstitutional. Again, this is NOT about the Right to Have Health Insurance, this is about the Right to Choose to Have Health Insurance or Not Have Health Insurance, and that right is being horribly infringed.

The same with the Insurance Companies. The companies HAVE to give you health insurance even if you are too old or have some kind of complicated condition, which means that in the case of the latter the insurance companies would shell out tremendous amounts of money to keep you healthy, or in the case of the former in which they shell out tremendous amounts of money to keep you healthy and they don't get it back because you die sooner or later. Would you put money into a car that is about to completely fall apart? Would you let your friend borrow your car despite the fact that every single car he drives ends up in a twisted pile of burning metal?

I say that the Obama Administration is infringing on the rights of the people one too many times. The people of the United States of America did NOT want this Obamacare bill imposed on them, no matter what ACORN or CNN or C-SPAN or whatever the Communoliberal spin doctors say!

Nice bit of ideological and political hysteria and propoganda, but, pray tell, what provision of the U.S. Constitution is violated by the Health Care Reform Act and how is it violated?

[The Cat-Tribe]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/obamacare-passes-its-first-test/?hp

The article outlines a pretty diverse range of view points from various blogs. Basically the judge ruled that healthcare is a unique industry. Since the ER won't refuse a sick person we can't opt out of healthcare unless we air home and die. Everyone is bound to need healthcare at somepoint. And actually those without insurance are more likely to need it because they don't catch symptoms early. So since we will use or at leat are very,very,very likely to use, healthcare much like we use or might use the police why shouldn't we be mandated to have insurance to pay for it much like our axes go to the police. We shift the burden of pay to earlier rather than later, and in the process will save mony because preventive cre is cheaper.

Sowhat foes NSG think of health care reform,s constitioninality?

Of course, the Health Care Reform Act is constitutional, as the U.S. District Court for the Eastern Distrct of Michigan explained in its ruling (20p pdf).

If and when I get time, I'll come back and explain the ruling in more detail for those too lazy to read it.

I have yet to hear anyone (including the plaintiffs in these legal challenges to the HCRA) articulate an intelligent argument identifying which provisions of the Constitution are violated by the law and how they are violated.

[Dyakovo]

Source for the Republicans wanting to repeal it and replace it with the same thing?

essentially the same thing.

many republican candidates have decided that it is politically unwise to say they are going to make it OK to deny babies insurance again so they have begun to say that they will re-instate the popular things.

and sinde exchanges and subsidies are republican ideas...what is left to repeal?

So no source?

[Ashmoria]

essentially the same thing.

many republican candidates have decided that it is politically unwise to say they are going to make it OK to deny babies insurance again so they have begun to say that they will re-instate the popular things.

and sinde exchanges and subsidies are republican ideas...what is left to repeal?

So no source?

nope

pay attention to politics and when you see your local republican candidate say it you can say to yourself "oh thats what ashmoria was talking about"

[The Cat-Tribe]

Well, if congress were to tell us what was in the Health Care Bill and not hide it from us, despite their stressing "transparency," maybe the public would do something about it.

Instead we get Nancy Pelosi...
"Let's vote on the bill, then let's read it"

1. The various bills were posted and available for anyone who wanted to to read. If you didn't that your fault.

2. There were also many analyses of the bills out there -- most importantly, the objective analyses of the Congressional Budget Office.

3. Nancy Pelosi did not say that. That is a lie.

BTW, here is a good source summarizing information about the Health Care Reform Act and its impacts.

[Mossat]

Like I said, Cat Tribe, I am a Conservative of Lesser Intellect than A Liberal Progressive, so I'm going to let THIS do the talking for me.

(OOC: I believe we are posting with great rapidity so our repsonses to our statements may be delayed and overlapped)

[Saiwania]

It isn't ruled as constitutional until it gets to the Supreme Court so it isn't over until it's over. I don't believe the commerce clause can legally compel people to engage in commerce. The mandate punishes citizens for mere inactivity in getting health insurance.

[Conserative Morality]

nope

pay attention to politics and when you see your local republican candidate say it you can say to yourself "oh thats what ashmoria was talking about"

The 'Get your own source' response? Really, Ashmoria?

[Farnhamia]

It isn't ruled as constitutional until it gets to the Supreme Court so it isn't over until it's over. I don't believe the commerce clause can legally compel people to engage in commerce. The mandate punishes citizens for mere inactivity in getting health insurance.

It certainly is ruled constitutional. I daresay many constitutional challenges stop short of the Supreme Court. SCOTUS could refuse the case, too. So, you're wrong.

[Dyakovo]

It isn't ruled as constitutional until it gets to the Supreme Court so it isn't over until it's over. I don't believe the commerce clause can legally compel people to engage in commerce. The mandate punishes citizens for mere inactivity in getting health insurance.

Not entirely accurate...
Judge George Steeh ruled that it was constitutional, so until his decision is overturned by a higher court it is constitutional.

[Greed and Death]

It has been ruled constitutional in regard to the commerce clause challenge, by a district court.
14 other cases remain, with other arguments and more conservative district judges hearing the cases.
Ideally two circuit courts will rule in contradictory ways and this will force the matter to the supreme court.

[The Cat-Tribe]

what a wonderful bill. You can tell that it's wonderful when 30 companies get waivers to not give 1 million employees the mandated coverage. It all works out, right? http://www.usatoday.com/money/industrie ... 7_ST_N.htm

"The better is the enemy of the good." -- Voltaire

[Greed and Death]

So no source?

nope

pay attention to politics and when you see your local republican candidate say it you can say to yourself "oh thats what ashmoria was talking about"

As opposed to the current situation where babies are not denied coverage, but are never offered it ?

[Ashmoria]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/obamacare-passes-its-first-test/?hp

The article outlines a pretty diverse range of view points from various blogs. Basically the judge ruled that healthcare is a unique industry. Since the ER won't refuse a sick person we can't opt out of healthcare unless we air home and die. Everyone is bound to need healthcare at somepoint. And actually those without insurance are more likely to need it because they don't catch symptoms early. So since we will use or at leat are very,very,very likely to use, healthcare much like we use or might use the police why shouldn't we be mandated to have insurance to pay for it much like our axes go to the police. We shift the burden of pay to earlier rather than later, and in the process will save mony because preventive cre is cheaper.

Sowhat foes NSG think of health care reform,s constitioninality?

Of course, the Health Care Reform Act is constitutional, as the U.S. District Court for the Eastern Distrct of Michigan explained in its ruling (20p pdf).

If and when I get time, I'll come back and explain the ruling in more detail for those too lazy to read it.

I have yet to hear anyone (including the plaintiffs in these legal challenges to the HCRA) articulate an intelligent argument identifying which provisions of the Constitution are violated by the law and how they are violated.

interesting reading.

is there something special about abortion in law that they felt that the fine for not getting insurance might end up paying for abortion in some minute way should have made an impact on the case?

[Ashmoria]

nope

pay attention to politics and when you see your local republican candidate say it you can say to yourself "oh thats what ashmoria was talking about"

As opposed to the current situation where babies are not denied coverage, but are never offered it ?

if it turns out that ALL insurance companies drop child insurance, the congress can deal with it, eh?

if the republicans dont block that too.

[Ashmoria]

nope

pay attention to politics and when you see your local republican candidate say it you can say to yourself "oh thats what ashmoria was talking about"

The 'Get your own source' response? Really, Ashmoria?

yeah im not all that fond of proving that the sky is blue.

if you dont pay enough attention to politics to know what the republicans are campaigning on im not interested in spoon feeding it to you.

[Dyakovo]

The 'Get your own source' response? Really, Ashmoria?

yeah im not all that fond of proving that the sky is blue.

if you dont pay enough attention to politics to know what the republicans are campaigning on im not interested in spoon feeding it to you.

Thing is, I've never heard a Republican candidate say any such thing, and being (officially at least) a member of the party I get a crap load of mail from them...

[Ashmoria]

yeah im not all that fond of proving that the sky is blue.

if you dont pay enough attention to politics to know what the republicans are campaigning on im not interested in spoon feeding it to you.

Thing is, I've never heard a Republican candidate say any such thing, and being (officially at least) a member of the party I get a crap load of mail from them...

well when you see it, you will know what im talking about.

i doesnt much matter, the president will veto any repeal of health care reform.

[Dyakovo]

Thing is, I've never heard a Republican candidate say any such thing, and being (officially at least) a member of the party I get a crap load of mail from them...

well when you see it, you will know what im talking about.

And the fact that I haven't is the reason why I asked you for a source on it, and why I am dismissing your claim as bullshit since you can't back it up.

[Saiwania]

I still will not pay a damn dime into it.

[Dyakovo]

I still will not pay a damn dime into it.

So you plan on going to jail for tax evasion?

[Ashmoria]

well when you see it, you will know what im talking about.

And the fact that I haven't is the reason why I asked you for a source on it, and why I am dismissing your claim as bullshit since you can't back it up.

go ahead.

its not important to this thread.

im not interested in spending half an hour or so digging up video clips to make a point that you dont care about anyway.

woud you REALLY rather your party want to repeal the health care bill and let things go back to disallowing babies insurance and rescinding insurance for petty reasons just when someone needs the coverage??