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by Living Freedom Land » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:48 pm
by Buffett and Colbert » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:49 pm
You-Gi-Owe wrote:If someone were to ask me about your online persona as a standard of your "date-ability", I'd rate you as "worth investigating further & passionate about beliefs". But, enough of the idle speculation on why you didn't score with the opposite gender.
by Unhealthy2 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:49 pm
The Canadian Pacific wrote:Of course not because it refutes his point.
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:52 pm
Newmanistan wrote:Vesintor wrote:In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.
I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.
Well then, until you are 18, your views don't matter. Is it a harsh reality? Perhaps. So's life, in general.
Stand up, or face the consequences, which are perfectly legal if your parents refuse to sign the exemption.
by Mediterreania » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:52 pm
Phonencia wrote:If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek a new flag.
if you don't respect this nation and flag, then I respectfully ask you to get out of it and move to iran, where they behead you for such non sense. and for being gay, non muslim, a woman, etc. etc.
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:54 pm
Sierra Lobo wrote:Allanea wrote:Under existing legal precedent HS students are covered under free speech rights. He can sue.
Good thing he lives in a country that recognizes the free speech rights of students, eh?
huh? why is the end all arguments falls under free speech? He could challenge the VA state authority on this? He was not gagged?
So like a 15 y.o ..... who cant buy cigarettes and alcohol due to current laws is actually impinging on my right of free speech if i dont agree with it, and nullify my freedom of expression since i am disallowed to partake on them?
by Tavalu » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:58 pm
by Ayla Taksidi » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:00 pm
The Tavan Race wrote:I don't believe in any god, but I still say the part about "one nation, under God". Why? Because it is an accurate statement. Something like ninety percent of USian citizens are Christians.
by New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:02 pm
Tavalu wrote:I do believe we need to show some sort of support because of the history behind a nation.
Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?
Teccor wrote:You're actually arguing with Kereptica? It's like arguing with a far-Left, militantly atheist brick wall.
Bluth Corporation wrote:No. A free market literally has zero bubbles.
JJ Place wrote:I have a few more pressing matters to attend to right now; I'll be back later this evening to continue my one-man against the world struggle.
Mercator Terra wrote: Mental illness is a myth.
by Haalstad » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:02 pm
Vesintor wrote:In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.
I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.
Here's an excerpt from the Virginia Senate Bill 1331:Pledge of Allegiance. Requires (i) all students to be required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate such knowledge and (ii) each school board to require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in each classroom of the school division and to ensure that an American flag is in place in each classroom. Each school board must determine the appropriate time during the school day for the recitation of the Pledge. During the Pledge of Allegiance, students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform; however, no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds. Students who are thus exempt from reciting the Pledge must remain quietly standing or sitting at their desks while others recite the Pledge and must not make any display that disrupts or distracts others who are reciting the Pledge. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who are unable to comply with these procedures due to disability. School board codes of conduct shall apply to disruptive behavior during the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other circumstances of similar behavior. The Office of the Attorney General must intervene on behalf of local school boards and must provide legal defense of these provisions.
Here's a link to the full text.
I do apologize for the verbose nature of this post, but I felt that this community was the right place to share my plight.
by Mediterreania » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:04 pm
Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:
What - the "get the fuck out" ? That only strengthens the argument that nationalism is repugnant
There is not a problem with being national, that is having an identity to a country (otherwise why are you here? Why use our services? And pay your taxes?). There is a problem when that nationalism is taken to the extreme, stereotyping the ideal American. I am not doing that. I am merely saying get over yourself and say the pledge. But work to change the policies you agree with, not cast yourself as some anti-allegiance dweeb who sounds more self-righteous than anything else.
by New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:04 pm
Haalstad wrote:If you refuse to swear allegiance to the United States of America, then leave. Pure and Simple.
Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?
Teccor wrote:You're actually arguing with Kereptica? It's like arguing with a far-Left, militantly atheist brick wall.
Bluth Corporation wrote:No. A free market literally has zero bubbles.
JJ Place wrote:I have a few more pressing matters to attend to right now; I'll be back later this evening to continue my one-man against the world struggle.
Mercator Terra wrote: Mental illness is a myth.
by Tavalu » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:07 pm
by Unicario » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:08 pm
Haalstad wrote:Vesintor wrote:In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.
I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.
Here's an excerpt from the Virginia Senate Bill 1331:
Here's a link to the full text.
I do apologize for the verbose nature of this post, but I felt that this community was the right place to share my plight.
If you refuse to swear allegiance to the United States of America, then leave. Pure and Simple.
by Qenlia » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:09 pm
Haalstad wrote:Vesintor wrote:In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.
I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.
Here's an excerpt from the Virginia Senate Bill 1331:
Here's a link to the full text.
I do apologize for the verbose nature of this post, but I felt that this community was the right place to share my plight.
If you refuse to swear allegiance to the United States of America, then leave. Pure and Simple.
by New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:10 pm
Tavalu wrote:Because of who has died for this nation, who has built this nation from the ground up, who has risked their lives for the freedom of our nation. The pledge is a sign of respect. Most Americans, never think how lucky they are to live in this nation and to respect who has given all they have for this nation, it is a reminder every morning how lucky we are.
Tavalu wrote:Plus, if you dont want to say it, then dont, but i still feel it is right to stand and acknowledge our country, agree with its policies or not.
Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?
Teccor wrote:You're actually arguing with Kereptica? It's like arguing with a far-Left, militantly atheist brick wall.
Bluth Corporation wrote:No. A free market literally has zero bubbles.
JJ Place wrote:I have a few more pressing matters to attend to right now; I'll be back later this evening to continue my one-man against the world struggle.
Mercator Terra wrote: Mental illness is a myth.
by Tavalu » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:11 pm
Mediterreania wrote:Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:
There is not a problem with being national, that is having an identity to a country (otherwise why are you here? Why use our services? And pay your taxes?). There is a problem when that nationalism is taken to the extreme, stereotyping the ideal American. I am not doing that. I am merely saying get over yourself and say the pledge. But work to change the policies you agree with, not cast yourself as some anti-allegiance dweeb who sounds more self-righteous than anything else.
I don't raelly like the pledge either. Even if wasn't an anarchist (who disagrees with "the republic, for which it stands"), I still find it kind of creepy. The entire classroom (or school), in uniso, recites some pledge that they don't understand and have been taught from birth. And they do it every day.
by New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:12 pm
Tavalu wrote:Now that I agree with, it is silly to say, but it is a good sign of respect, I have always felt, which is what we did in Elementary school, that the National anthem would be better,get rid of the pledge and just play the Star Spangled Banner maybe once a week, or at least on special days, like December 4, September 11, and May 8 (for example).
Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?
Teccor wrote:You're actually arguing with Kereptica? It's like arguing with a far-Left, militantly atheist brick wall.
Bluth Corporation wrote:No. A free market literally has zero bubbles.
JJ Place wrote:I have a few more pressing matters to attend to right now; I'll be back later this evening to continue my one-man against the world struggle.
Mercator Terra wrote: Mental illness is a myth.
by Dyakovo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:13 pm
Lithatrius wrote:Hate to break it to you all, but school rules > national law.
by Tavalu » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:15 pm
New Kereptica wrote:Tavalu wrote:Because of who has died for this nation, who has built this nation from the ground up, who has risked their lives for the freedom of our nation. The pledge is a sign of respect. Most Americans, never think how lucky they are to live in this nation and to respect who has given all they have for this nation, it is a reminder every morning how lucky we are.
Forced respect will not create actually respect; it will create resentment. Furthermore, indoctrinated respect is even worse.
And no, the pledge is not a sign of respect. It's a pledge. It's a sign of deference, which is quite certainly not respect.Tavalu wrote:Plus, if you dont want to say it, then dont, but i still feel it is right to stand and acknowledge our country, agree with its policies or not.
Why? What about it makes it right? Is it more right than, say, freedom of speech?
by The Cat-Tribe » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:16 pm
Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:"...I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition)..."
Then, get the fuck out.
Supreme Marshal Petan";p="3448840[spoiler] wrote:[/spoiler]Vesintor wrote:LOL nationalist
Damn straight.
Seriously I can see objecting to saying a pledge that violates your personal beliefs in a deity, I'd further agree this country has made plenty of mistakes, but what I don't respect, what I disagree with are people who are young and snobbish, who never had to sweat and bleed, who are calling this country so goddamn awful.
If it's so awful, than leave it. Otherwise help try and change it.
Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:Vesintor wrote:
Drug prohibition in this country has left our prisons overflowing with innocent people, that have harmed no one.
(2007) According to the American Corrections Association, the average daily cost per state prison inmate per day in the US is $67.55. State prisons held 253,300 inmates for drug offenses in 2007. That means states spent approximately $17,110,415 per day to imprison drug offenders, or $6,245,301,475 per year.
Source:
American Correctional Association, 2006 Directory of Adult and Juvenile Correctional Departments, Institutions, Agencies and Probation and Parole Authorities, 67th Edition (Alexandria, VA: ACA, 2006), p. 16; Sabol, William J., PhD, and West, Heather C., Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2007 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, December 2008), NCJ224280, p. 21, Appendix Table 10.
Do you have any idea the suffering innocent people are going through everyday because of prohibition?
The government owns you, they tell you what you can and cannot put in your body. That is oppression, plain and simple.
Listen, junior (I wince at that consider I'm turning 21 this Thursday! YAY!). Obviously this government isn't perfect, and I certainly agree with the legalization of drugs. But I still love my country. I agree that marriage equality should be allowed and isn't, but I still love my country. And the list goes on and on. There are many faults with my country, like there is with any other, but if your belief is that I whine and bitch, shake your head and say "nu-uh," and talk about how horrible this country is, than seriously get the fuck out.
This isn't a 'us versus them' mentality, I never liked Bush and the ethnocentrism he promoted. I just hate snobbish like turds who think they are being badasses. When in reality they are just being douches.
Some of us are trying to make it better, and we don't need the likes of you.
Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:Vesintor wrote:
When did I ever say that all I was going to do was whine and bitch? As soon as I bring up a valid point, what is the first thing I see from you? "NANANA WHINING FAGGOT GET OUT OF THE CUNTRY IF YOU DONT LIKE IT!"
How does this solve anything? We need to bring issues like this to the table instead of just accepting it as part of life and ignoring anyone that talks about it. How else will shit get changed if don't discuss it, you ignorant cunt?
How about you open your mind a little instead of dismissing any notions of a flaw in the your government as bitching?
Things are VERY wrong and have been for a long time in this country.
Oh please.
I never said I had any problem with discussing it, just those who bitch about horrible it is. Discussion doesn't bring change, action does. I already know things have been 'very wrong' in this country, there is always a problem in every country. It's the nature of society, duh.
You obviously didn't read my comment, so I won't even bother really replying to yours.
Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:I don't mind people complaining. I complain about the fact that our country seems to favor corporations more than it should, like I said, I find fault with people who just try and demonize our country as being some incurable hell-hole with no chance of hope. And than I find it annoying people don't want to pledge to the flag.Vesintor wrote:
You still have failed to address this:
If the best you can do in response to someone posting a cited fact is to call it bitching and whining, then it's obvious you have no argument.
Whether it be immigrants or soldiers, both have sweated for this country, one bled for it, the other escaped their home to come to a great nation. It's imperfect yeah, I don't disagree. And I agree about refraining from saying 'under God' as a personal choice and decriminalizing recreation drug use, but just not pledging period because you find faults with this country and your some little punk whose trying to be cool? Spare me.
Supreme Marshal Petan wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:What - the "get the fuck out" ? That only strengthens the argument that nationalism is repugnant
There is not a problem with being national, that is having an identity to a country (otherwise why are you here? Why use our services? And pay your taxes?). There is a problem when that nationalism is taken to the extreme, stereotyping the ideal American. I am not doing that. I am merely saying get over yourself and say the pledge. But work to change the policies you agree with, not cast yourself as some anti-allegiance dweeb who sounds more self-righteous than anything else.
by Hegstoria » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:18 pm
Vesintor wrote:In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.
I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.
Here's an excerpt from the Virginia Senate Bill 1331:Pledge of Allegiance. Requires (i) all students to be required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate such knowledge and (ii) each school board to require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in each classroom of the school division and to ensure that an American flag is in place in each classroom. Each school board must determine the appropriate time during the school day for the recitation of the Pledge. During the Pledge of Allegiance, students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform; however, no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds. Students who are thus exempt from reciting the Pledge must remain quietly standing or sitting at their desks while others recite the Pledge and must not make any display that disrupts or distracts others who are reciting the Pledge. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who are unable to comply with these procedures due to disability. School board codes of conduct shall apply to disruptive behavior during the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other circumstances of similar behavior. The Office of the Attorney General must intervene on behalf of local school boards and must provide legal defense of these provisions.
Here's a link to the full text.
I do apologize for the verbose nature of this post, but I felt that this community was the right place to share my plight.
by Tavalu » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:19 pm
New Kereptica wrote:Tavalu wrote:Now that I agree with, it is silly to say, but it is a good sign of respect, I have always felt, which is what we did in Elementary school, that the National anthem would be better,get rid of the pledge and just play the Star Spangled Banner maybe once a week, or at least on special days, like December 4, September 11, and May 8 (for example).
Why is coerced "respect" a good thing?
Also: why are all the days you presented so martial? Why didn't you choose some that were actually worthy of respect?
by New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:20 pm
Tavalu wrote: already said you dont have to say it, but you should at least stand, we our not required to say it at my state, even though i thought we had to, we are just required to stand. the pledge is silly, i do not agree with it, but I do agree that some sign of acknowledging our nation should be put into place. Like I said above, the National anthem would be better, although I am also pro- military, so some music like Stars and Strips forever would be my preference, but I bet that practice would be attacked by millions of parents.
Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?
Teccor wrote:You're actually arguing with Kereptica? It's like arguing with a far-Left, militantly atheist brick wall.
Bluth Corporation wrote:No. A free market literally has zero bubbles.
JJ Place wrote:I have a few more pressing matters to attend to right now; I'll be back later this evening to continue my one-man against the world struggle.
Mercator Terra wrote: Mental illness is a myth.
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