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Students forced to recite Pledge of Allegiance, VA

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Unhealthy2
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Postby Unhealthy2 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:45 pm

L3 Communications wrote:The law disagrees.


Because the law is definitely relevant in matters of ontology.
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The Evil Reich
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Postby The Evil Reich » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:49 pm

North Caucasus wrote:Taking the pledge is really nothing more than a show of respect, if you took 2 seconds to get your crooked tampon in order you would realize that many people have been killed and hurt for you to have the luxurie of even having an education.


I really hope no one ever died for you to have the luxury of learning how to spell or make a post that doesn't rely on sexist stereotypes. If they did, they died in vain.

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Fyorder
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Postby Fyorder » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:49 pm

It states quite clearly that a student is not mandated to recite the pledge if it does not agree with his or her own views. You have a right to not recite the pledge and I suggest to you that you not be strong-armed into doing so, as it conflicts with your views. If you are suspended because of it you can simply file a complaint or possibly sue. I find this strange as most, if not all,of the classrooms in my high school did not even have the U.S. flag flown.
Last edited by Fyorder on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vesintor
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Postby Vesintor » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:15 pm

I'm a bit taken aback by the overwhelming amount of posts that have told me I should leave America because I don't want to pledge my allegiance. I am also thankful that we have some intelligent individuals on this board that have jumped to defend my rights.

Yes I'm 17, call me immature, angsty, or whatever you want to assume that I am. I don't think standing up for your rights makes you immature.
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Tavalu
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Postby Tavalu » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:10 pm

Vesintor wrote:I'm a bit taken aback by the overwhelming amount of posts that have told me I should leave America because I don't want to pledge my allegiance. I am also thankful that we have some intelligent individuals on this board that have jumped to defend my rights.

Yes I'm 17, call me immature, angsty, or whatever you want to assume that I am. I don't think standing up for your rights makes you immature.


I agree with you, you have the right, it is written in law, under a supreme court ruling and under the Constitution that you do not have to say the pledge if you don't want. You should be allowed to stay seated if the "one nation, under God" offends me, because if I was in your shoes, or if it said "one nation under no God", I would be offended and would not want to say the pledge either. people fail to think about how it would be in another persons shoes. I find the pledge a waste of time, and I actually don't even say it just because no one in my class does, I find it a big waste. I find it is a way to show respect, or the governments way of trying to create nationalism, but in this day and age, the government should just remove the pledge. I am sure you are grateful for your rights you have in this nation, and for those who have died, and now that I have thought about it, nothing anyone can make you do or say, will make you anymore respectful. I agree with your statement that you can show respect in your own way, which is true. I still think if anything that National Anthem should be played instead, it focuses on nothing more then the 1812 battle and how lucky we were at the time, many nations actually do the National Anthem thing, but very few have a pledge.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:15 pm

The Canadian Pacific wrote:
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Then, get the fuck out.

This is a valid, irrefutable argument that has not been brought up in threads prior to this.


Actually, thats not a valid argument. Its not valid, because I could say that you should get the fuck out of the country for being anti-American because you advocate delocation instead of allowing people to practice freedom of speach and freedom of expression. So no, thats a horribly stupid argument that NASCAR fans make during commercial breaks.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:22 pm

Tavalu wrote:the governments way of trying to create nationalism


That's not a plus.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:23 pm

I hope you realize the amount of disrespect you've shown to the countless numbers of people who worked hard for you, because to be quite blunt I would rather be a pacifist then even run the risk of being injured knowing that you reside in our borders crying about how something isn't fair.


So basically what your saying is, you won't fight for concepts like freedom of speach. You would rather just go fight for a nylon rag with a bunch of silly colors on it.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:24 pm

Bendira wrote:Actually, thats not a valid argument. Its not valid, because I could say that you should get the fuck out of the country for being anti-American because you advocate delocation instead of allowing people to practice freedom of speach and freedom of expression. So no, thats a horribly stupid argument that NASCAR fans make during commercial breaks.


You are a master of gleaning the details in posts.
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L3 Communications
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Postby L3 Communications » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:24 pm

New new nebraska wrote:
Vesintor wrote:In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god);


You are not obligated to say that part

Vesintor wrote:I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition).


Then you deserve no recourse in its courts or the privledge of its education system. (well more because of "I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it." )And BTW prohibition has been repealled.



Calling public education a "privilege" is a bit of stretch, no?
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Auremena
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Postby Auremena » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:25 pm

Vesintor wrote:I'm a bit taken aback by the overwhelming amount of posts that have told me I should leave America because I don't want to pledge my allegiance. I am also thankful that we have some intelligent individuals on this board that have jumped to defend my rights.
Yes I'm 17, call me immature, angsty, or whatever you want to assume that I am. I don't think standing up for your rights makes you immature.
I totally agree with you, and am in the same position.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:30 pm

New Kereptica wrote:
Bendira wrote:Actually, thats not a valid argument. Its not valid, because I could say that you should get the fuck out of the country for being anti-American because you advocate delocation instead of allowing people to practice freedom of speach and freedom of expression. So no, thats a horribly stupid argument that NASCAR fans make during commercial breaks.


You are a master of gleaning the details in posts.


Why aren't you sipping a Milwakee's Best watching NASCAR? It would do just as much good, considering your clearly not engaged in any sort of relevant discussion here.
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Northern Itasca
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Postby Northern Itasca » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:31 pm

Vesintor wrote:In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.

I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.

Here's an excerpt from the Virginia Senate Bill 1331:
Pledge of Allegiance. Requires (i) all students to be required to learn the Pledge of Allegiance and to demonstrate such knowledge and (ii) each school board to require the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in each classroom of the school division and to ensure that an American flag is in place in each classroom. Each school board must determine the appropriate time during the school day for the recitation of the Pledge. During the Pledge of Allegiance, students must either stand and recite the Pledge while facing the flag with their right hands over their hearts or in an appropriate salute if in uniform; however, no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds. Students who are thus exempt from reciting the Pledge must remain quietly standing or sitting at their desks while others recite the Pledge and must not make any display that disrupts or distracts others who are reciting the Pledge. School boards must provide appropriate accommodations for students who are unable to comply with these procedures due to disability. School board codes of conduct shall apply to disruptive behavior during the recitation of the Pledge in the same manner as provided for other circumstances of similar behavior. The Office of the Attorney General must intervene on behalf of local school boards and must provide legal defense of these provisions.


Here's a link to the full text.

I do apologize for the verbose nature of this post, but I felt that this community was the right place to share my plight.

EDIT: I did misread the statute, thank you guys for pointing that out. I am bringing this to class tomorrow and I will tell my teacher I don't need my parents to exempt me.


If you hate this nation so much why don't you get the fuck out and make the rest of us a lot happier. Go to France and be jobless and be surrounded by terrorist muslims.
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Revoltaire
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Postby Revoltaire » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:31 pm

L3 Communications wrote:
New new nebraska wrote:
You are not obligated to say that part



Then you deserve no recourse in its courts or the privledge of its education system. (well more because of "I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it." )And BTW prohibition has been repealled.



Calling public education a "privilege" is a bit of stretch, no?


Depends on where you live....I went to high school in an area where the public education system was phenomenal, despite a few minor drawbacks. For the most part, class sizes weren't too bad and we received the funding that we needed for the right textbooks, computers, and other educational materials we needed. Other areas of the country aren't so fortunate.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:32 pm

Bendira wrote:Why aren't you sipping a Milwakee's Best watching NASCAR? It would do just as much good, considering your clearly not engaged in any sort of relevant discussion here.


Says he whose post was based on non-recognition of TCP's sarcasm.
Last edited by New Kereptica on Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:33 pm

Northern Itasca wrote:If you hate this nation so much why don't you get the fuck out and make the rest of us a lot happier. Go to France and be jobless and be surrounded by terrorist muslims.


This joke has been beaten to death. :|
Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?

Teccor wrote:You're actually arguing with Kereptica? It's like arguing with a far-Left, militantly atheist brick wall.

Bluth Corporation wrote:No. A free market literally has zero bubbles.

JJ Place wrote:I have a few more pressing matters to attend to right now; I'll be back later this evening to continue my one-man against the world struggle.

Mercator Terra wrote: Mental illness is a myth.

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:33 pm

Vesintor wrote:I'm a bit taken aback by the overwhelming amount of posts that have told me I should leave America because I don't want to pledge my allegiance. I am also thankful that we have some intelligent individuals on this board that have jumped to defend my rights.

Yes I'm 17, call me immature, angsty, or whatever you want to assume that I am. I don't think standing up for your rights makes you immature.

I don't want you to leave America either, but I'm just quite baffled at the argument you're trying to make. That, you're allowed to NOT pledge is the point I'm trying to make a couple of posts ago.

Seems like you finally understand that. Good on ya. You should be a senator when you grow up, not a lot of people read statutes or bills.
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Bendira
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Postby Bendira » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:34 pm

New Kereptica wrote:
Bendira wrote:Why aren't you sipping a Milwakee's Best watching NASCAR? It would do just as much good, considering your clearly not engaged in any sort of relevant discussion here.


Says he whose post was based on non-recognition of TCP's sarcasm.


You could have brought that up in your last post, but you chose not to because you would prefer to be extremely annoying and not engage in any relevant discussion whatsoever.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:35 pm

Bendira wrote:You could have brought that up in your last post, but you chose not to because you would prefer to be extremely annoying and not engage in any relevant discussion whatsoever.


I did bring that up in my last post. You just didn't get it.
Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?

Teccor wrote:You're actually arguing with Kereptica? It's like arguing with a far-Left, militantly atheist brick wall.

Bluth Corporation wrote:No. A free market literally has zero bubbles.

JJ Place wrote:I have a few more pressing matters to attend to right now; I'll be back later this evening to continue my one-man against the world struggle.

Mercator Terra wrote: Mental illness is a myth.

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Dazchan
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Postby Dazchan » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:51 pm

Lithatrius wrote:Hate to break it to you all, but school rules > national law. i.e. You can smoke at 18. Try smoking outside of your school at the end of the day, and watch how the school hands your arse to ya. You're breaking no laws, but you still get buttraped harder than George Michael.


Um... no. Schools can make rules that don't relate to the law, but they can't make a rule that contradicts a law. For your example to be valid, the law would have to be "people must smoke at 18" rather than "you can smoke at 18".
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Vesintor
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Postby Vesintor » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:21 pm

Norstal wrote:
Vesintor wrote:I'm a bit taken aback by the overwhelming amount of posts that have told me I should leave America because I don't want to pledge my allegiance. I am also thankful that we have some intelligent individuals on this board that have jumped to defend my rights.

Yes I'm 17, call me immature, angsty, or whatever you want to assume that I am. I don't think standing up for your rights makes you immature.

I don't want you to leave America either, but I'm just quite baffled at the argument you're trying to make. That, you're allowed to NOT pledge is the point I'm trying to make a couple of posts ago.

Seems like you finally understand that. Good on ya. You should be a senator when you grow up, not a lot of people read statutes or bills.


Yes, I am allowed by state law. The teacher is acting illegally.
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Koffee
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Postby Koffee » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:28 pm

The god thing was only added in 1954. It wasn't part of the original pledge and was just a Cold War add-on. Apparently if you're in uniform you don't have to say the pledge, but just salute the flag, so all you need to do is join the Marines to avoid saying it. ;>)

You should be thankful that they aren't still using the Bellamy salute that used to go with the Pledge of Allegiance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:44 pm

Allied Governments wrote:I find it pathetic that you're whining about something so trivial.

But hey, that's NSG for you.

Being denied rights is trivial?
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:49 pm

United Gackle wrote:Well then, your not an American..... :palm:

He was born here to American parents, so not only is he American, he is a natural-born citizen.
Being an American does not mean agreeing with everything the country does/has done.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:51 pm

Altimaea wrote:
Hitchensland wrote:
It has "God" in it, which means it is favoring monotheism over other religions, or even the absence of religion. It doesn't matter that's it's not specific about which religion, it's still favoring religion over irreligion, thus compromising the government's religious neutrality. The government is not supposed to favor any form of religious concept, no matter how generic or widely accepted. The government is supposed to be completely neutral and not mention it at all.


Well you cant very well not have religion because then you are favoring atheists and the like. Paradox. Besides the pledge of allegiance ISNT part of the government.

The school district is.
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Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
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Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
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