Students forced to recite Pledge of Allegiance, VA

[Vesintor]

LOL nationalist

Damn straight.

Seriously I can see objecting to saying a pledge that violates your personal beliefs in a deity, I'd further agree this country has made plenty of mistakes, but won't I don't respect, what I disagree with are people who are young and snobbish, who never had to sweat and bleed, who are calling this country so goddamn awful.

If it's so awful, than leave it. Otherwise help try and change it.

Drug prohibition in this country has left our prisons overflowing with innocent people, that have harmed no one.

(2007) According to the American Corrections Association, the average daily cost per state prison inmate per day in the US is $67.55. State prisons held 253,300 inmates for drug offenses in 2007. That means states spent approximately $17,110,415 per day to imprison drug offenders, or $6,245,301,475 per year.

Source:
American Correctional Association, 2006 Directory of Adult and Juvenile Correctional Departments, Institutions, Agencies and Probation and Parole Authorities, 67th Edition (Alexandria, VA: ACA, 2006), p. 16; Sabol, William J., PhD, and West, Heather C., Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2007 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, December 2008), NCJ224280, p. 21, Appendix Table 10.

Do you have any idea the suffering innocent people are going through everyday because of prohibition?

The government owns you, they tell you what you can and cannot put in your body. That is oppression, plain and simple.

[The Tavan Race]

I don't believe in any god, but I still say the part about "one nation, under God". Why? Because it is an accurate statement. Something like ninety percent of USian citizens are Christians.

lolwrong

*research*

Yup, you're right, more along the lines of 85%. Still a majority.

[Greed and Death]

If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek a new flag.

.

I served 6 years in the military so people like him do not have to stand by any colors if they so choose.
Wonderful thing about freedom it protects those who disagree with you too, or it ceases to be freedom.

[Lackadaisical2]

You're with us or you're against us, eh? That sounds so familiar...

Are you trying to indirectly flame this guy by comparing him to a Star Wars Sith Lord?

Thanks, I needed that.

[Ryadn]

Are you trying to indirectly flame this guy by comparing him to a Star Wars Sith Lord?

Thanks, I needed that.

Me too. Damn you, comedic timing!

[Phonencia]

*Darth Vader breathing*

You don't know the power of the nationalist side!
*Force Choke*

[Supreme Marshal Petan]

Damn straight.

Seriously I can see objecting to saying a pledge that violates your personal beliefs in a deity, I'd further agree this country has made plenty of mistakes, but won't I don't respect, what I disagree with are people who are young and snobbish, who never had to sweat and bleed, who are calling this country so goddamn awful.

If it's so awful, than leave it. Otherwise help try and change it.

Drug prohibition in this country has left our prisons overflowing with innocent people, that have harmed no one.

(2007) According to the American Corrections Association, the average daily cost per state prison inmate per day in the US is $67.55. State prisons held 253,300 inmates for drug offenses in 2007. That means states spent approximately $17,110,415 per day to imprison drug offenders, or $6,245,301,475 per year.

Source:
American Correctional Association, 2006 Directory of Adult and Juvenile Correctional Departments, Institutions, Agencies and Probation and Parole Authorities, 67th Edition (Alexandria, VA: ACA, 2006), p. 16; Sabol, William J., PhD, and West, Heather C., Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2007 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, December 2008), NCJ224280, p. 21, Appendix Table 10.

Do you have any idea the suffering innocent people are going through everyday because of prohibition?

The government owns you, they tell you what you can and cannot put in your body. That is oppression, plain and simple.

Listen, junior (I wince at that consider I'm turning 21 this Thursday! YAY!). Obviously this government isn't perfect, and I certainly agree with the legalization of drugs. But I still love my country. I agree that marriage equality should be allowed and isn't, but I still love my country. And the list goes on and on. There are many faults with my country, like there is with any other, but if your belief is that I whine and bitch, shake your head and say "nu-uh," and talk about how horrible this country is, than seriously get the fuck out.

This isn't a 'us versus them' mentality, I never liked Bush and the ethnocentrism he promoted. I just hate snobbish like turds who think they are being badasses. When in reality they are just being douches.

Some of us are trying to make it better, and we don't need the likes of you.

[Allanea]

If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek a new flag.

if you don't respect this nation and flag, then I respectfully ask you to get out of it and move to iran, where they behead you for such non sense. and for being gay, non muslim, a woman, etc. etc.

You're with us or you're against us, eh? That sounds so familiar...

It should be.

That's what Jesus said.

[Mektar]

however, no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds

Shapow! Also, um, freedom of speech. To force someone to say the Pledge of Allegience seems somehow un-American to me, but then again, so do the Patriot Act, Alien and Sedition Acts, and I'm sure I could find plenty of others if I needed to. How is it the American government can be so un-American?

I love America, that's exactly why I'm with you on this issue.

[Ryadn]

You're with us or you're against us, eh? That sounds so familiar...

It should be.

That's what Jesus said.

Okay, I'm getting a cold after a month of being in classrooms with the little buggers and I just snorted and it hurt and there's all kinds of snot now, so I hope you're real happy.

[Phonencia]

Drug prohibition in this country has left our prisons overflowing with innocent people, that have harmed no one.

(2007) According to the American Corrections Association, the average daily cost per state prison inmate per day in the US is $67.55. State prisons held 253,300 inmates for drug offenses in 2007. That means states spent approximately $17,110,415 per day to imprison drug offenders, or $6,245,301,475 per year.

Source:
American Correctional Association, 2006 Directory of Adult and Juvenile Correctional Departments, Institutions, Agencies and Probation and Parole Authorities, 67th Edition (Alexandria, VA: ACA, 2006), p. 16; Sabol, William J., PhD, and West, Heather C., Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2007 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, December 2008), NCJ224280, p. 21, Appendix Table 10.

Do you have any idea the suffering innocent people are going through everyday because of prohibition?

The government owns you, they tell you what you can and cannot put in your body. That is oppression, plain and simple.

Listen, junior (I wince at that consider I'm turning 21 this Thursday! YAY!). Obviously this government isn't perfect, and I certainly agree with the legalization of drugs. But I still love my country. I agree that marriage equality should be allowed and isn't, but I still love my country. And the list goes on and on. There are many faults with my country, like there is with any other, but if your belief is that I whine and bitch, shake your head and say "nu-uh," and talk about how horrible this country is, than seriously get the fuck out.

This isn't a 'us versus them' mentality, I never liked Bush and the ethnocentrism he promoted. I just hate snobbish like turds who think they are being badasses. When in reality they are just being douches.

Some of us are trying to make it better, and we don't need the likes of you.

HELL YES!!!!

[Allanea]

It should be.

That's what Jesus said.

Okay, I'm getting a cold after a month of being in classrooms with the little buggers and I just snorted and it hurt and there's all kinds of snot now, so I hope you're real happy.

You realize I'm serious, right? The phrase originates from the New Testament, not some Nazi hate-fest.

[The Evil Reich]

I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience.

Good for you.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

If you really care about it that much, protest. Refuse to say it. Gather like-minded students to do the same. Students organizing is a scary thing to the higher ups and they occasionally cave to some demands just to make it go away.

If that fails, they'll attempt to punish you if they care about it that much. At that point you can file a lawsuit. The ACLU will probably be glad to help you out.

[Sierra Lobo]

G&D may correct me here, but the bill seems to me to say that you can excuse yourself:

no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he[...] objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds.

if you are of the legal majority, i guess .... that is why they need the guardians/parents waver on this.

[Allanea]

Uh, OMG? The law he refers to clearly says he DOES NOT HAVE to say the pledge.

[Newmanistan]

In the state of Virginia, students are required to stand and say the pledge unless they have an exemption from their parents. I am 17 and I not only disagree with the wording in the pledge of allegiance (one nation, under god); I also refuse to pledge my allegiance to the United States government. I find the laws and actions of this country appalling and heinous (particularly prohibition). My parents have refused to sign an exemption because they don't agree with my views.

I will not just stand up, I have dignity and a right to practice civil disobedience. I don't have any respect for the flag or this country, and I won't stand up for it. I suggest students in a similar predicament to sit down, don't give in just because people tell you to. Now I may be facing some sort of disciplinary action from the school for refusing to recite a pledge; it's the land of the free and home of the brave I suppose.

Well then, until you are 18, your views don't matter. Is it a harsh reality? Perhaps. So's life, in general.
Stand up, or face the consequences, which are perfectly legal if your parents refuse to sign the exemption.

[Allanea]

Under existing legal precedent HS students are covered under free speech rights. He can sue.

Good thing he lives in a country that recognizes the free speech rights of students, eh?

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Uh, OMG? The law he refers to clearly says he DOES NOT HAVE to say the pledge.

Exactly. If they're trying to make him, therefore, he can take it to court and win easily.

[Newmanistan]

That's just wrong. Until I became a teacher and had to lead my kids in the pledge, I hadn't said it since I was about 10. I only started saying it again because I taught kindergarten my first year, and learning the pledge (though not reciting it each morning--just learning it) is one of the grade level standards. I taught it to my class sans the "under god", and since I don't teach kinder anymore, I've stopped reciting it.

Lovely. What else did you teach kindergarteners that was based on your own personal beliefs?
Be glad I wasn't a parent of one of those kids.

Hey, where's that thread about how do we fix the public school system again? We can start by not having teachers teach young kids based on THEIR agenda.

No offense is really intended here, I am EXTREMELY CRITICAL of most modern-day teachers.

[Sidereal Cities]

Read the whole sentence, Lacky...

What are you pointing out exactly?

That one, he'll (OP is male, right?) have to confront Ma and Pa about his beliefs; which I'm betting differs from theirs. So I doubt they will sign an exemption. Two, even if his parents did sign an exemption for the pledge that not participating (fully) may distract others who do it. Which kind of makes the situation a catch 22 ordeal.

[Nobel Hobos]

however, no student can be compelled to recite the Pledge if he, his parent or legal guardian objects on religious, philosophical, or other grounds.

As I read that, the student's objection alone is sufficient, whatever the parent/guardian says.

[Vesintor]

Drug prohibition in this country has left our prisons overflowing with innocent people, that have harmed no one.

(2007) According to the American Corrections Association, the average daily cost per state prison inmate per day in the US is $67.55. State prisons held 253,300 inmates for drug offenses in 2007. That means states spent approximately $17,110,415 per day to imprison drug offenders, or $6,245,301,475 per year.

Source:
American Correctional Association, 2006 Directory of Adult and Juvenile Correctional Departments, Institutions, Agencies and Probation and Parole Authorities, 67th Edition (Alexandria, VA: ACA, 2006), p. 16; Sabol, William J., PhD, and West, Heather C., Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2007 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, December 2008), NCJ224280, p. 21, Appendix Table 10.

Do you have any idea the suffering innocent people are going through everyday because of prohibition?

The government owns you, they tell you what you can and cannot put in your body. That is oppression, plain and simple.

Listen, junior (I wince at that consider I'm turning 21 this Thursday! YAY!). Obviously this government isn't perfect, and I certainly agree with the legalization of drugs. But I still love my country. I agree that marriage equality should be allowed and isn't, but I still love my country. And the list goes on and on. There are many faults with my country, like there is with any other, but if your belief is that I whine and bitch, shake your head and say "nu-uh," and talk about how horrible this country is, than seriously get the fuck out.

This isn't a 'us versus them' mentality, I never liked Bush and the ethnocentrism he promoted. I just hate snobbish like turds who think they are being badasses. When in reality they are just being douches.

Some of us are trying to make it better, and we don't need the likes of you.

When did I ever say that all I was going to do was whine and bitch? As soon as I bring up a valid point, what is the first thing I see from you? "NANANA WHINING FAGGOT GET OUT OF THE CUNTRY IF YOU DONT LIKE IT!"

How does this solve anything? We need to bring issues like this to the table instead of just accepting it as part of life and ignoring anyone that talks about it. How else will shit get changed if don't discuss it, you ignorant cunt?

How about you open your mind a little instead of dismissing any notions of a flaw in the your government as bitching?

Things are VERY wrong and have been for a long time in this country.

[Newmanistan]

Uh, OMG? The law he refers to clearly says he DOES NOT HAVE to say the pledge.

Exactly. If they're trying to make him, therefore, he can take it to court and win easily.

He's 17. He has no rights if the parents won't sign the exemption.
Or you go to the court, pay court fees, and learn that.

[Allanea]

Calling people ignorant cunts isn't exactly the most awesome form of civilized debate ever.