Uneducated Police

[Bendira]

Do you know what I do for the voluntaryist movement?

From what I can tell, you try to have philosophical discussions with police officers. Why don't you tell us all, in specific detail, what you're doing to change the system you hate so much?

Why is it relevant to the discussion at all? Not that I am ashamed of my involvement in the voluntaryist movement, but I don't feel the need to legitimize your personal attacks on me.

[Bendira]

How many of those do the media cover?

They get coverage, not as much as the majors, but some. They get to run as many ads as they can afford. They all have entries in the Blue Book, which is published at government expense and sent to all registered voters, and which describes each candidates position.

You said that the two major parties and the media prevent other parties from getting on the ballot. That is simply not true and the point of this exercise has been to show you that it is not true.

They get no coverage whatsoever. I had no idea about hardly any of those people until you just posted it, and I have no idea about any of their political positions. In fact, I have no idea about McCain or Obama's even. And even if I did, they would just lie to win office anyways.

[Person012345]

They get coverage, not as much as the majors, but some. They get to run as many ads as they can afford. They all have entries in the Blue Book, which is published at government expense and sent to all registered voters, and which describes each candidates position.

You said that the two major parties and the media prevent other parties from getting on the ballot. That is simply not true and the point of this exercise has been to show you that it is not true.

They get no coverage whatsoever. I had no idea about hardly any of those people until you just posted it, and I have no idea about any of their political positions. In fact, I have no idea about McCain or Obama's even. And even if I did, they would just lie to win office anyways.

Your ignorance =/= political oppression.

[Caninope]

From what I can tell, you try to have philosophical discussions with police officers. Why don't you tell us all, in specific detail, what you're doing to change the system you hate so much?

Why is it relevant to the discussion at all? Not that I am ashamed of my involvement in the voluntaryist movement, but I don't feel the need to legitimize your personal attacks on me.

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

[Caninope]

Unless you would like to change the system from the inside. Hard, not impossible.

I am morally opposed to the idea of a single candidate being elected and forcing society to follow his laws. Obviously the minority is discriminated against. And running for office is legitimizing that process. Working outside the system is the only true moral way to do it.

Which is why we have minority rights and plenty of opportunities for minority opinions to stop an action.

EX: Every Democrat Led issue in Congress.

[Farnhamia]

Why is it relevant to the discussion at all? Not that I am ashamed of my involvement in the voluntaryist movement, but I don't feel the need to legitimize your personal attacks on me.

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

It's okay, he doesn't have to answer. I know what I wanted to know.

[Bendira]

Why is it relevant to the discussion at all? Not that I am ashamed of my involvement in the voluntaryist movement, but I don't feel the need to legitimize your personal attacks on me.

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

But it is. The premise of the question is that I don't have a right to criticize the system because I do not work within it. Its an attempt at a personal attack on my character.

[Bendira]

I am morally opposed to the idea of a single candidate being elected and forcing society to follow his laws. Obviously the minority is discriminated against. And running for office is legitimizing that process. Working outside the system is the only true moral way to do it.

Which is why we have minority rights and plenty of opportunities for minority opinions to stop an action.

EX: Every Democrat Led issue in Congress.

Im in my house, and I wasnt to smoke marijuana on my own property. Suddenly, the SWAT team enters, shootsmy dog and beats me. Then they take me to a prison, where I am beaten and raped by inmates, until I join a hardened prison gang.

What way can that so called "minority position" stop an action?

[Person012345]

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

But it is. The premise of the question is that I don't have a right to criticize the system because I do not work within it. Its an attempt at a personal attack on my character.

No it isn't. Even if that is the premise of the question, that's still not a personal attack.

Or do you consider anyone disagreeing with you to be a personal attack?

[Panzerjaeger]

This thread is still pathetic and lulzworthy.

[Neo Art]

Why is it relevant to the discussion at all? Not that I am ashamed of my involvement in the voluntaryist movement, but I don't feel the need to legitimize your personal attacks on me.

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

When you're incapable of providing an answer, a question can seem a lot like an attack.

[Bendira]

But it is. The premise of the question is that I don't have a right to criticize the system because I do not work within it. Its an attempt at a personal attack on my character.

No it isn't. Even if that is the premise of the question, that's still not a personal attack.

Or do you consider anyone disagreeing with you to be a personal attack?

Its a personal attack, because he has already stated that anything other than working within the system should not occur. I don't work within the system. The only possible outcome is a personal attack.

[Panzerjaeger]

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

When you're incapable of providing an answer, a question can seem a lot like an attack.

Brain damage can make you think your arm is trying to attack you as well. Amazing what the human brain can do...

[Bendira]

When you're incapable of providing an answer, a question can seem a lot like an attack.

Brain damage can make you think your arm is trying to attack you as well. Amazing what the human brain can do...

You are extremely rude and disrespectful. I really wish you would stop harassing me on my topics.

[Panzerjaeger]

No it isn't. Even if that is the premise of the question, that's still not a personal attack.

Or do you consider anyone disagreeing with you to be a personal attack?

Its a personal attack, because he has already stated that anything other than working within the system should not occur. I don't work within the system. The only possible outcome is a personal attack.

So you don't know what ad-hominems are, personal attacks, logic or what the specific duties of a Police Officer are...eh so what is there to discuss?

[Panzerjaeger]

Brain damage can make you think your arm is trying to attack you as well. Amazing what the human brain can do...

You are extremely rude and disrespectful. I really wish you would stop harassing me on my topics.

How was that rude? It was an offhand comment about how the brain can deceive itself. Now, now paranoia won't get you anywhere unless you be Stalin but then you can't be Lenin me the money.

[Person012345]

No it isn't. Even if that is the premise of the question, that's still not a personal attack.

Or do you consider anyone disagreeing with you to be a personal attack?

Its a personal attack, because he has already stated that anything other than working within the system should not occur. I don't work within the system. The only possible outcome is a personal attack.

No it isn't. That is in no way a personal attack. It's an argument, that work outside the system should not occur. If you don't work within the system, you can obviously extrapolate that the speaker thinks you're wrong, but that is not an attack on you. That is stating an opinion.

I do believe I've found the problem. You must have googled ad hominem and clicked the link to "Encyclopedia dramatica" thinking it was a reliable source. And as it says there:

Before making an ad hominem attack, it is a good idea to keep the following things in mind:

* In debate, any person disagreeing with the OP is using ad hominem.

[Caninope]

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

But it is. The premise of the question is that I don't have a right to criticize the system because I do not work within it. Its an attempt at a personal attack on my character.

No, actually, it is the idea that one has to work inside the system to criticize it.

It's no more a personal attack than to the 75 other million who didn't vote in 2008.

[Farnhamia]

That's not a personal attack. It's a question.

But it is. The premise of the question is that I don't have a right to criticize the system because I do not work within it. Its an attempt at a personal attack on my character.

You may think so, but I was merely saying that your protests against the system would carry more weight if you told us what you were doing, inside the system or outside, to make changes. Instead you got huffy and accused me of impugning your character. If you think I did, report me to the Mods. You listed a bunch of "isms" earlier that you participate in, but you steadfastly refuse to elaborate on what actions you take and how they will help reform the country. What are we supposed to think?

[Xomic]

So I am a voluntaryist, and as a result I receive all the new updates from the voluntaryist community involving activism. Many acivists confront police and question them about their role in society and why they do what they do. Overwhelming, the majority of the police have not even considered the ethics of their job. Several times, police have said that they would follow any laws they were asked to execute.

Well...

The majority of law enforcement doesn't need to really consider whether the laws they enforce ore just or not, because laws are suppose to be just . There are of course injust laws, which is likely why Plato argues in The Republic that the ideal city's guardians would be trained in philosophy (so they could tell when something was injust).

Here is my question. How can you be a police officer and not have any ethical/moral justification for it whatsoever? These cops never even seem to go with the statist talking points of "consent of the governed" or "social contract" or "public good". Even though id argue those are horribly weak justifications for the existence of a government, the fact that police don't even know them sort of proves that many police seem to be there just for the power or pay of the job. And if they are there just for the power or the pay, what type of person does that make them?

If you're asking for a moral justification for policing is to protect those who cannot protect themselves from suffering injustice/etc.

[Caninope]

Which is why we have minority rights and plenty of opportunities for minority opinions to stop an action.

EX: Every Democrat Led issue in Congress.

Im in my house, and I wasnt to smoke marijuana on my own property. Suddenly, the SWAT team enters, shootsmy dog and beats me. Then they take me to a prison, where I am beaten and raped by inmates, until I join a hardened prison gang.

What way can that so called "minority position" stop an action?

Except that most drug arrests of users don't take place with SWAT teams. Most arrests, even SWAT arrests, are made without a shot being fired. Sometimes, users can get off with just going to a rehabilitation center. And most people in jail aren't raped.

[Bendira]

But it is. The premise of the question is that I don't have a right to criticize the system because I do not work within it. Its an attempt at a personal attack on my character.

No, actually, it is the idea that one has to work inside the system to criticize it.

It's no more a personal attack than to the 75 other million who didn't vote in 2008.

That argument is a really tired double-edged sword. I can say the same if you participate in the system

You participated in the system, you lost, now stop complaining.

[Bendira]

Im in my house, and I wasnt to smoke marijuana on my own property. Suddenly, the SWAT team enters, shootsmy dog and beats me. Then they take me to a prison, where I am beaten and raped by inmates, until I join a hardened prison gang.

What way can that so called "minority position" stop an action?

Except that most drug arrests of users don't take place with SWAT teams. Most arrests, even SWAT arrests, are made without a shot being fired. Sometimes, users can get off with just going to a rehabilitation center. And most people in jail aren't raped.

Nothing you just said has anything to do with a minority position stopping an action.

[Person012345]

No, actually, it is the idea that one has to work inside the system to criticize it.

It's no more a personal attack than to the 75 other million who didn't vote in 2008.

That argument is a really tired double-edged sword. I can say the same if you participate in the system

You participated in the system, you lost, now stop complaining.

For your benefit, this also is not a personal attack.

[Panzerjaeger]

That argument is a really tired double-edged sword. I can say the same if you participate in the system

You participated in the system, you lost, now stop complaining.

For your benefit, this also is not a personal attack.

Are you sure? It looks pretty attacky to me.