Uneducated Police

[The Bleeding Roses]

Real life is all the evidence I need kid, wake up from your fairy tale.

Care to provide evidence to support your claim that I live in a fairy tale?

Not just an idiot, a shitty troll as well.

[Bendira]

Care to provide evidence to support your claim that I live in a fairy tale?

Not just an idiot, a shitty troll as well.

Im the troll? You come into a debate thread telling me im a idiot and a troll, and somehow im the troll?

[The Bleeding Roses]

Not just an idiot, a shitty troll as well.

Im the troll? You come into a debate thread telling me im a idiot and a troll, and somehow im the troll?

Care to provide evidence to support your claim that I came into a debate thread? Debate usually requires an educated position.

[Bendira]

Im the troll? You come into a debate thread telling me im a idiot and a troll, and somehow im the troll?

Care to provide evidence to support your claim that I came into a debate thread? Debate usually requires an educated position.

Care to provide evidence to support the fact that my position is uneducated? I already know the answer to that, just get the hell out of my thread.

[The Bleeding Roses]

Care to provide evidence to support your claim that I came into a debate thread? Debate usually requires an educated position.

Care to provide evidence to support the fact that my position is uneducated? I already know the answer to that, just get the hell out of my thread.

There is no thread ownership in the general forums.

[Person012345]

You are describing a statist government. Conscription, taxes for protection in return for not punishing someone. Statism.

Exactly. Anarcho capitalism that bases itself off of having private agencies to enforce anything will not last as anarchy.

Based on what?

You don't honestly have that short a memory.

Conscription is slavery. PDAs do not have the power or rights for conscription.

Who's going to stop them?

Anybody that dosn't want to be enslaved, and the insurance companies who has a vested interest in your wellbeing.

Uh... who? What insurance companies? You mean the PDA? The one that's extorting you? If you mean an outside PDA, see my comment about the fact that IF you could pay them enough to make it worth their while all they could do is attempt to force their way into PDA 1's territory. They can only do this by force (because PDA 1 has an army, unsurprisingly). That is a war. And it probably won't end up solving the problem.

Warfare is extremely expensive and not profitable.

The spanish conquistadors would like to disagree.

Cost of warfare has changed a little bit since then

No it hasn't, warfare was incredibly expensive back in those days too. For example, being involved in the American war of independence for the time that they were increased france's debt by about a billion (to a total of 3 billion). So yes, it was expensive as hell.

There would be no warfare between armies.

Yes there would. Profit can be obtained from extorting people. The more area you can control the more people you can extort from, the more profit. Look at protection rackets.

It would never come to this point, but even if it did, what would stop being from just leaving the area?

What stops you from just leaving the united states if you don't like it? You are using the same argument that anarcho-capitalists usually deride as being silly.

Furthermore, whilst a company's only goal may be profit, that is not the only goal of the people who control the corporation. They will be more than happy to give orders expanding their own power, they are human.

You need money to fuel a war machine, so no matter what the CEO's irrational whims are, he needs to make a profit somehow to achieve them.

And they would. You already have a war machine, that is the entire point of a PDA pretty much, to defend people by force. And as you expand you bring more people under you to "tax". The point is that PDA 2 probably wouldn't even get involved unless it was made profitable for them. PDA 1 are not starting the war, they would just be holding on to what they have.

[Bokaya]

Here is my question. How can you be a police officer and not have any ethical/moral justification for it whatsoever?

Cops are an organ of government, sworn to the state to protect and enforce the rule of Law. It isn't a lack of education tht leads these guys to say they'd enforce any law, no matter how immoral, it's simply their duty and, I should hope, their pride.

State above all, rule of law above all. These pure, shining concepts outrank petty morality, don't you think?

[Farnhamia]

Here is my question. How can you be a police officer and not have any ethical/moral justification for it whatsoever?

Cops are an organ of government, sworn to the state to protect and enforce the rule of Law. It isn't a lack of education tht leads these guys to say they'd enforce any law, no matter how immoral, it's simply their duty and, I should hope, their pride.

State above all, rule of law above all. These pure, shining concepts outrank petty morality, don't you think?

That's just the point, he doesn't.

[Bokaya]

huh? sorry I just read the OP then wrote a reply. Did I miss something?

[Msigroeg]

huh? sorry I just read the OP then wrote a reply. Did I miss something?

He doesn't think.

[Bendira]

Uh... who? What insurance companies? You mean the PDA? The one that's extorting you? If you mean an outside PDA, see my comment about the fact that IF you could pay them enough to make it worth their while all they could do is attempt to force their way into PDA 1's territory. They can only do this by force (because PDA 1 has an army, unsurprisingly). That is a war. And it probably won't end up solving the problem.

An insurance company, who has money invested in your life, would not want you to be enslaved to go fight and die. Insurance companies would be in charge of PDA's, because PDA's would be defense agains't outside threats on human life, causing insurance companies to make payouts. Other PDA's would HAVE to fight against the oppressive PDA, because they would need to honor their contracts. If they didn't honor their contract, they would loose all their customers who do not trust them anymore.

No it hasn't, warfare was incredibly expensive back in those days too. For example, being involved in the American war of independence for the relatively time that they were increased france's debt by about a billion (to a total of 3 billion). So yes, it was expensive as hell.

One Abrams tank probably costs more than Cortez and his entire armies gear costs.

There would be no warfare between armies.

What stops you from just leaving the united states if you don't like it? You are using the same argument that anarcho-capitalists usually deride as being silly.

Moving a couple miles in a certain direction to avoid taxes is nothing near the same to leaving the country.

PDA's wouldn't tax people. The PDA model would be that of insurance companies. You get a life insurance policy, and if you die your insurer has to pay out a cost. Obviously if a foreign army invades and kills half your customers, your business will be screwed. If your PDA began robbing people of their money, practically every other entity in the entire society will be opposed to you, because you do not honor your contracts, and you are engaging in criminal behavior.

[Bendira]

Here is my question. How can you be a police officer and not have any ethical/moral justification for it whatsoever?

Cops are an organ of government, sworn to the state to protect and enforce the rule of Law. It isn't a lack of education tht leads these guys to say they'd enforce any law, no matter how immoral, it's simply their duty and, I should hope, their pride.

State above all, rule of law above all. These pure, shining concepts outrank petty morality, don't you think?

If you believe that, then whats the difference between a cop and a hired murderer, kidnapper?

If I write down a list of "laws" I wan't enforced, and then hire my own private security team to enforce them, thats just as morally justifiable as a police officers job right?

[Msigroeg]

If you believe that, then whats the difference between a cop and a hired murderer, kidnapper?

Legality.

If I write down a list of "laws" I wan't enforced, and then hire my own private security team to enforce them, thats just as morally justifiable as a police officers job right?

Have you been given a mandate to govern by the voters of your nation?

[Bendira]

Legality.

What makes the governments "legality" any more legal than my own legality?

Have you been given a mandate to govern by the voters of your nation?

Ok, I set up a two party system, where both candidates are in favor of the same exact piece of paper I created earlier. And I tell people they have to vote for one of these two candidates. And they choose me. So yes, I have a mandate.

[Sdaeriji]

One Abrams tank probably costs more than Cortez and his entire armies gear costs.

And the average McDonald's drive-through worker makes more money than the King of Spain during Cortez's time.

[Msigroeg]

What makes the governments "legality" any more legal than my own legality?

The aforementioned mandate.

Ok, I set up a two party system, where both candidates are in favor of the same exact piece of paper I created earlier. And I tell people they have to vote for one of these two candidates. And they choose me. So yes, I have a mandate.

Are you internationally recognised as a sovereign nation? Can you defend this sovereignty?

If so then yes, it's as 'morally justifiable'.

[Bendira]

What makes the governments "legality" any more legal than my own legality?

The aforementioned mandate.

Ok, I set up a two party system, where both candidates are in favor of the same exact piece of paper I created earlier. And I tell people they have to vote for one of these two candidates. And they choose me. So yes, I have a mandate.

Are you internationally recognised as a sovereign nation? Can you defend this sovereignty?

If so then yes, it's as 'morally justifiable'.

So I set up two candidates, both who support this piece of paper. I then tell the people they can vote for either candidate. I win, even though the majority of the peoples views weren't represented. I then get recognition by a bunch of other so called "mandated leaders" who say I am legitimate. And then I get a buncha people with a shitload of guns to support me. Thats morally justifiable?

[Farnhamia]

The aforementioned mandate.


Are you internationally recognised as a sovereign nation? Can you defend this sovereignty?

If so then yes, it's as 'morally justifiable'.

So I set up two candidates, both who support this piece of paper. I then tell the people they can vote for either candidate. I win, even though the majority of the peoples views weren't represented. I then get recognition by a bunch of other so called "mandated leaders" who say I am legitimate. And then I get a buncha people with a shitload of guns to support me. Thats morally justifiable?

Wait, how are you "mandated" if all you did was set up the two candidates? YOU didn't get elected, one of them did. And anyway, all you're doing now is wheeling the goal posts around until you find a place you like.

[Msigroeg]

So I set up two candidates, both who support this piece of paper. I then tell the people they can vote for either candidate. I win, even though the majority of the peoples views weren't represented. I then get recognition by a bunch of other so called "mandated leaders" who say I am legitimate. And then I get a buncha people with a shitload of guns to support me. Thats morally justifiable?

I think you'll find, were you to look into it, that this is not a very accurate description of your nation's history.

[Bendira]

So I set up two candidates, both who support this piece of paper. I then tell the people they can vote for either candidate. I win, even though the majority of the peoples views weren't represented. I then get recognition by a bunch of other so called "mandated leaders" who say I am legitimate. And then I get a buncha people with a shitload of guns to support me. Thats morally justifiable?

I think you'll find, were you to look into it, that this is not a very accurate description of your nation's history.

Id say it is. I wrote a research paper on how the two major parties, in conjunction with the media, block third party entry. If you actually think we are free because we get to choose between two dudes, then you need to do some more research.

[Msigroeg]

Id say it is. I wrote a research paper on how the two major parties, in conjunction with the media, block third party entry. If you actually think we are free because we get to choose between two dudes, then you need to do some more research.

They use legal methods to silence the competition?

Why, that's terrible. It sounds a little like your Anarcho-Capitalist paradise, actually, although you can replace "parties" with "corporations" and "media" with "private armies".

Either way, I enjoy not living in the good old USA.

[Bendira]

Id say it is. I wrote a research paper on how the two major parties, in conjunction with the media, block third party entry. If you actually think we are free because we get to choose between two dudes, then you need to do some more research.

They use legal methods to silence the competition?

Why, that's terrible. It sounds a little like your Anarcho-Capitalist paradise, actually, although you can replace "parties" with "corporations" and "media" with "private armies".

Either way, I enjoy not living in the good old USA.

How does anarcho-capitalism advocate using legal methods to silence competition?

And also, do you agree with me its not moral to do what I just stated earlier?

[Czardas]

Yes, all police do is break into peoples homes, shoot them and imprison them. Thats their job. What the hell else do they do?

I will take warning, but you are a fucking idiot.

You're well past warnings at this point. See you in a week.

[Msigroeg]

How does anarcho-capitalism advocate using legal methods to silence competition?

When you only survive by staying ahead of the competition, you'll do anything you can get away with to win. The lack of commonly enforced laws makes it hard for them to do anything 'illegal', however.

And also, do you agree with me its not moral to do what I just stated earlier?

More or less, yes. Luckily, that isn't what actually happened.

[Bendira]

When you only survive by staying ahead of the competition, you'll do anything you can get away with to win. The lack of commonly enforced laws makes it hard for them to do anything 'illegal', however.

Underhanded business tactics leave you with no suppliers and no customers.

More or less, yes. Luckily, that isn't what actually happened.

Whats the difference between my example and the U.S. government?