Your stance on Police Brutality?

[Chumblywumbly]

I believe what they are saying is that when you are out raising hell and the police tell you to stop, it might be a good idea to stop.

And when you are peacefully protesting in a clearly non-threatening manner?

[Grays Harbor]

It is more complicated then peaceful person got hit with a night stick OMG police brutality. Never mind he hit those protesters because he need to get them out of the way, to get at the guy throwing bottles of urine over the peaceful protesters at the police.

If that's true, and I see no video evidence of it in the second or third video, it still doesn't excuse the first video, which resulted in the death of a guy who had the audacity to be walking in front of the police.

Yes, that is a regretful accident. However, perhaps he should have thought to himself, "lets see....big protest........police and protesters clashing........yes, I should not walk right down the middle of it because I am obviously innocent." before he took that route? Or does common sense not count anymore?

[Greed and Death]

It is more complicated then peaceful person got hit with a night stick OMG police brutality. Never mind he hit those protesters because he need to get them out of the way, to get at the guy throwing bottles of urine over the peaceful protesters at the police.

If that's true, and I see no video evidence of it in the second or third video, it still doesn't excuse the first video, which resulted in the death of a guy who had the audacity to be walking in front of the police.

Are we talking about specific videos, or police use of force in general ?

I suspect the trial or investigation should judge each individual incidence.

[Robarya]

Of course the police has to use force at times to uphold order. How is that so hard to understand? That man who died due to internal injuries was probably participating in a violent demonstration.

Wow. You really didn't watch that video, eh?

Nope. I just made an assumption at first, and replied accordingly.

But then I decided to watch it after all, and I have to agree that based on what's seen in video #1, it does appear the police officer in question used excessive force.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

Of course the police has to use force at times to uphold order. How is that so hard to understand? That man who died due to internal injuries was probably participating in a violent demonstration.

He wasn't..I seen a video of it.

[Jordaxia]

Yes, that is a regretful accident. However, perhaps he should have thought to himself, "lets see....big protest........police and protesters clashing........yes, I should not walk right down the middle of it because I am obviously innocent." before he took that route? Or does common sense not count anymore?

if your common sense tells you that you should EXPECT the police to start initiating violence to the protestors, then you've already conceded that they act unlawfully expecting not to be punished for it for their own corrupt amusement, no?

[Chumblywumbly]

Yes, that is a regretful accident. However, perhaps he should have thought to himself, "lets see....big protest........police and protesters clashing........yes, I should walk right down the middle of it because I am obviously innocent." before he took that route? Or does common sense not count anymore?

Ian Tomlinson was not in the middle of some massive street battle, far from it.

Though your argument is a rather novel take on the 'bitch had it coming' defence.

[Rolling squid]

It is more complicated then peaceful person got hit with a night stick OMG police brutality. Never mind he hit those protesters because he need to get them out of the way, to get at the guy throwing bottles of urine over the peaceful protesters at the police.

If that's true, and I see no video evidence of it in the second or third video, it still doesn't excuse the first video, which resulted in the death of a guy who had the audacity to be walking in front of the police.

Yes, that is a regretful accident. However, perhaps he should have thought to himself, "lets see....big protest........police and protesters clashing........yes, I should not walk right down the middle of it because I am obviously innocent." before he took that route? Or does common sense not count anymore?

There wasn't a big violent battle going on. The police were walking along calmly, as was Mr. Tomlinson. No one should have to fear that the police would randomly attack them.

[Reavani]

Well, of course English police are going to start getting out of hand.

I however can...

Because I'm American like that.

Amer-I-CAN

Of course, your .22 is going to be amazingly effective when the Forces Of Evil Oppression simply drop a JDAM on your house and fuck off back to their airport for tea. Personally I'd rather not have the hilarious yet tragic impression that owning small arms is going to stop any kind of totalitarian state in its tracks. Didn't help the Iraqis. Didn't help the Jews in Warsaw. Won't magically help you Americans.

Well of course small arms can't stop a totalitarian state.

But they can stop men.

And if they can stop men.

You can fight guerrilla style

And if you can do that,

You can win the people

And if you can win the people

Overthrowing a government is easy.

[Grays Harbor]

It is more complicated then peaceful person got hit with a night stick OMG police brutality. Never mind he hit those protesters because he need to get them out of the way, to get at the guy throwing bottles of urine over the peaceful protesters at the police.

If that's true, and I see no video evidence of it in the second or third video, it still doesn't excuse the first video, which resulted in the death of a guy who had the audacity to be walking in front of the police.

Are we talking about specific videos, or police use of force in general ?

I suspect the trial or investigation should judge each individual incidence.

About time somebody else saw that as well, and that blanket statements of "Police are Brutes" etc, are more than counter-productive, and just show the bias of the person making that statement. If a police officer steps over the line, then that should be dealt with. If a protester steps over the line that should be dealt with. But to just dismiss all police as brutes? A bit over the top.

Can't believe I actually agreed with G&D on something. Go figure.

[ERNESTLAND]

Our local police force has more of a percentage that go to jail than our citizens. Many are currently under indictment and the union wants a private hearing on the matter. Bullshit. They do have a stressful job, but if you can't take the heat, don't take the job. Gone are the days of unregulated police forces. Everybody knows that police let a lot of people off they know for crimes that would put people in jail for if they did not know a cop. Is that fair??? I have a card that lets me outta a speeding ticket!!! I know a few cops!! Is that fair?? I will use my card!!! I know it is who you know. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely". One cop broke into his ex girlfriend house and beat her while a restraining order in force. He is on paid leave!!!

[Yootopia]

Well of course small arms can't stop a totalitarian state.

Yep, no real need to go on tbqh.

You can win the people

And if you can win the people

Overthrowing a government is easy.

You have to be kidding me. In a Hypothetical Evil Bastard Totalitarian State Where They Hate The General Public But Have Really Significant Cash Reserves, they'd pour airborne AIDS on your face if you had the support of 'the people', and everyone would die, thus cementing their power once again by making any resistance appear futile n shit.

[Tiesabre]

Cops will always get away with it unless God himself points his finger at the cop.

You could have a video of a cop about to arrest a guy, guy could trip over and the cop would shoot him 35 times claiming that as the suspect fell over he reach out for my hand and it was obvious he was trying to kill me. I shot him 12 times, reloaded, shot another 12 times then his leg twitched which is an obvious sign of him resisting arrest and shot him another 12 times.

Then the judge will say well even though the offcer shot the suspect 24 times, the suspects leg twitched while on the edge of death so the officer's life was still in danger.

Honestly if a cop unjustifiably shot me several times and doesn't kill me, after I recover I will kill him. Count on it.

[ERNESTLAND]

Cops will always get away with it unless God himself points his finger at the cop.

You could have a video of a cop about to arrest a guy, guy could trip over and the cop would shoot him 35 times claiming that as the suspect fell over he reach out for my hand and it was obvious he was trying to kill me. I shot him 12 times, reloaded, shot another 12 times then his leg twitched which is an obvious sign of him resisting arrest and shot him another 12 times.

Then the judge will say well even though the offcer shot the suspect 24 times, the suspects leg twitched while on the edge of death so the officer's life was still in danger.

Honestly if a cop unjustifiably shot me several times and doesn't kill me, after I recover I will kill him. Count on it.

COUNT ON IT!!!!

[Grays Harbor]

Cops will always get away with it unless God himself points his finger at the cop.

You could have a video of a cop about to arrest a guy, guy could trip over and the cop would shoot him 35 times claiming that as the suspect fell over he reach out for my hand and it was obvious he was trying to kill me. I shot him 12 times, reloaded, shot another 12 times then his leg twitched which is an obvious sign of him resisting arrest and shot him another 12 times.

Then the judge will say well even though the offcer shot the suspect 24 times, the suspects leg twitched while on the edge of death so the officer's life was still in danger.

Honestly if a cop unjustifiably shot me several times and doesn't kill me, after I recover I will kill him. Count on it.

and next in todays "fantasy on parade" story-telling contest..................

[Daistallia 2104]

They have a tough and stressful job. If they say "get back" or something and you don't expect some punishment.

This is not even a sentence.

What you are saying is that we should always defer to the government without thinking? (Not to take it to its logical extreme or anything.)

I don't see how it is not a sentence, but I wouldn't care if it is or not. Anyone can see what I was saying.

:::Puts on Engrish teacher hat.:::

"If they say "get back" or something and you don't expect some punishment." is not a sentence, but rather a conditional clause. To be a proper sentence you need an inde4pendent clause explaining what happens when the police say "get back" or something and one dosen't expect some punishment. "If they say "get back" or something and you don't expect some punishment, you are being foolish." would be an example.

I expect you intended to say: "If they say "get back" or something and you don't, you should expect some punishment."

:::Removes hat.:::

[Saint Clair Island]

Well of course small arms can't stop a totalitarian state.

But they can stop men.

And if they can stop men.

You can fight guerrilla style

And if you can do that,

You can win the people

And if you can win the people

Overthrowing a government is easy.

No, just no.

The best case scenario is that you die under tank treads, become a martyr, and your story spreads to other areas where rugged individualism prevails and sparks a noble-minded if ultimately doomed revolution whose purpose is mainly to serve as combat practice for Evil America's military. Throughout the rest of the nation the rebels are viewed as dangerous extremists or terrorists, and even those who dislike the new government will feel they must support it in these difficult times.

The most likely scenario is that you die, news of your death spreads as a rumor, and people are still too afraid/in denial to rise up ("That guy revolted against the government, and he's dead! I'll just play it safe -- if I've done nothing wrong, they can't hurt me!"). The government, meanwhile, paints you as some kind of dangerously insane homicidal maniac who was trying to gun down civilians in cold blood, and no journalists investigate too deeply because those who do tend to suffer mysterious accidents.

(Worst case scenario? You've been captured as a supporter of a terrorist group, vilified in the media, with incontrovertible evidence planted to implicate you, and no lawyer willing to take on your case. You're sentenced to live out your life in solitary confinement, pleading for death, not only from the physical pain from repeated torture but because they've made you recant your libertarian views many times over.)

If America ever becomes a totalitarian dictatorship, it will do so slowly -- slowly enough that at the point the history books mark the change, not only will the majority support it, but they'll still insist they're a democracy. A belief that Americans would never stand for that kind of thing is hopelessly naïve, probably brought on from too much exposure to idealistic media.

[Dakini]

I love the police...I always wave at them..they never wave back .
I hate being a teenage hoody.

I remember getting to the age where the police stopped waving back. I was kinda sad, but 10 years later and I still have to restrain myself.

They give funny looks now. I should have kids just so I can wave at them again.

[Sibirsky]

Scum. Those cops are scum. They will rot in hell for all eternity. Everyday, government assholes like themselves push me closer and closer to anarcho-capitalism.

If we had a private police force, their employees would be subject to laws just like anybody else. They would not be able to hide behind their government issued badge. The incentive would be to use as little power as possible. In these cases, these scumbags would go to jail for assault and murder. The employees would not be power hungry, authoritarian nut cases that tend to join the government police forces in today's society. It would be too expensive to hire assholes like that.

[Leavatia]

You know, you cannot tell what the people were saying to the cops. For all we know, they were threatening them or something. But during a protest, people always get roughed up a bit. It's cause the cop are on edge and don't want a riot, they just don't realize that they sometimes can start the riots. And during a riot, people rioting get beaten into submission. And I do think that the only time police should be able to actually hit people is during riots, cause those rioters would not hesitate to hit the cops.

[Sibirsky]

You know, you cannot tell what the people were saying to the cops. For all we know, they were threatening them or something. But during a protest, people always get roughed up a bit. It's cause the cop are on edge and don't want a riot, they just don't realize that they sometimes can start the riots. And during a riot, people rioting get beaten into submission. And I do think that the only time police should be able to actually hit people is during riots, cause those rioters would not hesitate to hit the cops.

Actually yes they would. Rioter hits cop=rioter goes to jail for assaulting a police officer. Cop hits rioter=rioter gets hit by cop.

[Booya1]

here in america most policemen are whiny fat babies who weren't even fit enough to pass the miniscule requirements to get in the U.S army. is britain pretty much the same?

anarcho-capitalism.

aahhhahgahhahgahhahah

[Aggicificicerous]

Rioter hits cop=rioter goes to jail for assaulting a police officer. Cop hits rioter=rioter gets hit by cop.

This sums it up pretty nicely.

It doesn't matter how "stressed" you are, clobbering someone is illegal, and anyone who does it needs to be arrested and charged. Police are no more above the law than anyone else.

[Dyakovo]

Your stance on Police Brutality?

I'm all for it as long as its not directed at me or my family and friends...

[Louis Van Boxel Woolf]

Of course the police has to use force at times to uphold order. How is that so hard to understand? That man who died due to internal injuries was probably participating in a violent demonstration.

That is not true, the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Comission) verified he was an innocent man who was walking away to collect some newspapers (he was a newspaper vendor).
1. There is no excuse for the first video.
2. I SUPPOSE you could kinda blame the woman, but if you were being kettled for 9 hours (as she was) i'd be pretty annoyed, and seeing as i'm not hitting anyone etc. be counted a peaceful protestor and be able to leave the kettle, as the police said they could, so she tried and hit the MASSIVE policeman's back to get his attention, he responded by shouting "get back," well because she still wanted to leave (i found out it was because her friend was having a baby and she was a student mid wife) she got hit to the ground.
3. There is no excuse for this video.