Good for Obama!!!

[Macht der Ewigkeit]

The American people must help them selves and can not rely on just their government to pull them out. We use to be an inventive industrious people. no we are a nation of bureaucracy and idleness. Governments are there to protect and serve the people through indirect means. Not taking over car companies and appointing friends to run them or threatening an international company that we will take them down. these are the marks of a dictatorship not a republic and certainly not a democracy.

Which Americans should help themselves? The 1% of the population that holds about 40% of the wealth? Help themselves to more money while the oppressed minority works long hours for crappy health insurance and not enough money to send their children to increasingly more expensive colleges? That's right, those kids can just get loans that will take them their whole lives to pay off. The government is there for a reason. I think BP should have been nationalized for it's destruction of the gulf. Companies don't play by the rules unless they are forced to, just like people would do all kinds of immoral things if there were no police. A democracy can stand up and take control of herself back from the corporations and special interests that are choking her to death right now.

i have very little as well i have had no job for almost a year... i make do with what i have but i have never filed for government help. I started my own business and too the initiative to fight for what i want. 2% hold 80 of the planets wealth. They own fortune 500 companies and small businesses and lend money to companies that are just starting out. Most of them give out billions of dollars to scholarship programs and schools. I like that 2% and strive to be one of those 2%. There will always be someone ahead of me in life especial if i sit on my hands and complain about them the entire way.

I guess you are ok with the fact that the people who produce a product, who are the life's blood of the economy, are forced to work for substandard wages that barely feeds their families? You are ok with the fact that so many people cannot even afford a decent education? Investing in our future by helping people go to college for example, would only help our nation.

college is free in fact if you don't make any money you get payed to go. something like 7k per trimester. that.s a good amount for a student if he or she knows how to MANAGE THEIR MONEY and live within their means. and yes i care i was one of them but like i said if they don't like their situation try harder and change it. I had to live out of a 1 bedroom apartment with no TV or cable and i decided to make the best of it. people who live in the projects 50% of them have DSL and get 1000 channels. I've been there it made me worry when they said they didn't have any money to put away.

[Dark Side Messiahs]

Isn't Obama still on vacation?

[New Huxlian Orwell]

The American people must help them selves and can not rely on just their government to pull them out. We use to be an inventive industrious people. no we are a nation of bureaucracy and idleness. Governments are there to protect and serve the people through indirect means. Not taking over car companies and appointing friends to run them or threatening an international company that we will take them down. these are the marks of a dictatorship not a republic and certainly not a democracy.

Which Americans should help themselves? The 1% of the population that holds about 40% of the wealth? Help themselves to more money while the oppressed minority works long hours for crappy health insurance and not enough money to send their children to increasingly more expensive colleges? That's right, those kids can just get loans that will take them their whole lives to pay off. The government is there for a reason. I think BP should have been nationalized for it's destruction of the gulf. Companies don't play by the rules unless they are forced to, just like people would do all kinds of immoral things if there were no police. A democracy can stand up and take control of herself back from the corporations and special interests that are choking her to death right now.

i have very little as well i have had no job for almost a year... i make do with what i have but i have never filed for government help. I started my own business and too the initiative to fight for what i want. 2% hold 80 of the planets wealth. They own fortune 500 companies and small businesses and lend money to companies that are just starting out. Most of them give out billions of dollars to scholarship programs and schools. I like that 2% and strive to be one of those 2%. There will always be someone ahead of me in life especial if i sit on my hands and complain about them the entire way.

I guess you are ok with the fact that the people who produce a product, who are the life's blood of the economy, are forced to work for substandard wages that barely feeds their families? You are ok with the fact that so many people cannot even afford a decent education? Investing in our future by helping people go to college for example, would only help our nation.

And why would you want to be rich? There's a reason why poor people are poor and rich people are rich. Because rich people have to coordinate hundreds of thousands of employees, take care of their portfolio, do their giant pile of taxes, etc. Its easier to just use your pickaxe to mine coal rather than learning about integral calculus.

Also note that you're not being forced to do anything. You can be rich in a variety of ways, besides college. Invest in the stock market, the real estate, or just work really hard. Those rich people you loathe so much starts from somewhere too.

Now that I'm done with threadjacking, I would like to congratulate Obama in stepping up to the plate. Congrats Obama, for shutting them up.

Yeah, those poor downtrodden rich people, having to spend time paying accountants to do their taxes, or hiring poor people to clean their gigantic houses. I feel so sorry for them.

[Norstal]

The American people must help them selves and can not rely on just their government to pull them out. We use to be an inventive industrious people. no we are a nation of bureaucracy and idleness. Governments are there to protect and serve the people through indirect means. Not taking over car companies and appointing friends to run them or threatening an international company that we will take them down. these are the marks of a dictatorship not a republic and certainly not a democracy.

Which Americans should help themselves? The 1% of the population that holds about 40% of the wealth? Help themselves to more money while the oppressed minority works long hours for crappy health insurance and not enough money to send their children to increasingly more expensive colleges? That's right, those kids can just get loans that will take them their whole lives to pay off. The government is there for a reason. I think BP should have been nationalized for it's destruction of the gulf. Companies don't play by the rules unless they are forced to, just like people would do all kinds of immoral things if there were no police. A democracy can stand up and take control of herself back from the corporations and special interests that are choking her to death right now.

i have very little as well i have had no job for almost a year... i make do with what i have but i have never filed for government help. I started my own business and too the initiative to fight for what i want. 2% hold 80 of the planets wealth. They own fortune 500 companies and small businesses and lend money to companies that are just starting out. Most of them give out billions of dollars to scholarship programs and schools. I like that 2% and strive to be one of those 2%. There will always be someone ahead of me in life especial if i sit on my hands and complain about them the entire way.

I guess you are ok with the fact that the people who produce a product, who are the life's blood of the economy, are forced to work for substandard wages that barely feeds their families? You are ok with the fact that so many people cannot even afford a decent education? Investing in our future by helping people go to college for example, would only help our nation.

And why would you want to be rich? There's a reason why poor people are poor and rich people are rich. Because rich people have to coordinate hundreds of thousands of employees, take care of their portfolio, do their giant pile of taxes, etc. Its easier to just use your pickaxe to mine coal rather than learning about integral calculus.

Also note that you're not being forced to do anything. You can be rich in a variety of ways, besides college. Invest in the stock market, the real estate, or just work really hard. Those rich people you loathe so much starts from somewhere too.

Now that I'm done with threadjacking, I would like to congratulate Obama in stepping up to the plate. Congrats Obama, for shutting them up.

Yeah, those poor downtrodden rich people, having to spend time paying accountants to do their taxes, or hiring poor people to clean their gigantic houses. I feel so sorry for them.

If you think you can run a giant company or a country, then do it. Obama himself has taken a lot of flak from republicans and democrats, accused of not being a citizen, and other stresses he have to face. I wouldn't want to be him, having to face a difficult economic situation or helping the very people who hates him.

Sorry to use Obama as an example, but I like to stay on topic.

[Macht der Ewigkeit]

you know I've noticed a lot of things about racism being brought up to be used as weapons and I'm disgusted. I lived in St Louis for a prolonged period of time, in areas like Ferguson and Maryland Heights and I've been called many raciest names just because of the color that my skin is not. Not buy just a small number of people either and then i came home and noticed i get the same thing from other minorities as well because for some reason being white is a bad thing and we as white people hate everyone that doesn't look like us. It is the same ignorance that enslaved the blacks and killed the natives if this land that now plagues us, but this time it is the minority that is doing it. Saying woe are we for our people used to be oppressed and used to be enslaved and to make it all better we are going to do the same to you because that will some how make everything ok. Ill tell you this it is and never will be ok to harass discriminate or oppress because of race color or gender and by doing so those who are doing so are slowly becoming the same as the bigots who sold and killed your ancestors. I warn you don't or you will be held in the same light as the plantation owners slave traders and murderers of old.

[Patriqvinia]

Are you really cheering on obama for that

Well they need SOMETHING don't they? He's about to take credit for Iraqi success too.

I think he'll take credit for pulling troops out in the 18 month timetable he had set during the campaign. It's weird when a politician sticks to their word. I applaud my brothers and sisters coming home from that sandbox. They did their jobs and deserve the honor and respect they have lived up to.

We haven't withdrawn yet. We've simply left 50,000 troops behind and called them something else.

Affirmative action is discrimination. It gives preferential treatment.

That's only really a valid argument if the affirmative action ends up with a disproportionate presence of a given minority group.

If affirmative action only ends up limiting the selection of candidates up to a level that is representative of demographic presence, it's not really giving 'preference'.

It's not the governments job to make sure every business has workers that accurately portray the ethnic makeup of the nation; that's just micro-management taken to a moronic scale. What you're arguing is that 30 percent of hockey players should have not gotten their jobs because there are too many white hockey players already, or that a hockey team should be forced to hire an Asian hockey player who just learned to skate instead of an excellent white player.

[New Huxlian Orwell]

The American people must help them selves and can not rely on just their government to pull them out. We use to be an inventive industrious people. no we are a nation of bureaucracy and idleness. Governments are there to protect and serve the people through indirect means. Not taking over car companies and appointing friends to run them or threatening an international company that we will take them down. these are the marks of a dictatorship not a republic and certainly not a democracy.

Which Americans should help themselves? The 1% of the population that holds about 40% of the wealth? Help themselves to more money while the oppressed minority works long hours for crappy health insurance and not enough money to send their children to increasingly more expensive colleges? That's right, those kids can just get loans that will take them their whole lives to pay off. The government is there for a reason. I think BP should have been nationalized for it's destruction of the gulf. Companies don't play by the rules unless they are forced to, just like people would do all kinds of immoral things if there were no police. A democracy can stand up and take control of herself back from the corporations and special interests that are choking her to death right now.

i have very little as well i have had no job for almost a year... i make do with what i have but i have never filed for government help. I started my own business and too the initiative to fight for what i want. 2% hold 80 of the planets wealth. They own fortune 500 companies and small businesses and lend money to companies that are just starting out. Most of them give out billions of dollars to scholarship programs and schools. I like that 2% and strive to be one of those 2%. There will always be someone ahead of me in life especial if i sit on my hands and complain about them the entire way.

I guess you are ok with the fact that the people who produce a product, who are the life's blood of the economy, are forced to work for substandard wages that barely feeds their families? You are ok with the fact that so many people cannot even afford a decent education? Investing in our future by helping people go to college for example, would only help our nation.

And why would you want to be rich? There's a reason why poor people are poor and rich people are rich. Because rich people have to coordinate hundreds of thousands of employees, take care of their portfolio, do their giant pile of taxes, etc. Its easier to just use your pickaxe to mine coal rather than learning about integral calculus.

Also note that you're not being forced to do anything. You can be rich in a variety of ways, besides college. Invest in the stock market, the real estate, or just work really hard. Those rich people you loathe so much starts from somewhere too.

Now that I'm done with threadjacking, I would like to congratulate Obama in stepping up to the plate. Congrats Obama, for shutting them up.

Yeah, those poor downtrodden rich people, having to spend time paying accountants to do their taxes, or hiring poor people to clean their gigantic houses. I feel so sorry for them.

If you think you can run a giant company or a country, then do it. Obama himself has taken a lot of flak from republicans and democrats, accused of not being a citizen, and other stresses he have to face. I wouldn't want to be him, having to face a difficult economic situation or helping the very people who hates him.

Sorry to use Obama as an example, but I like to stay on topic.

Of course CEOs are going to make a lot of money. That's not the issue. There is a level of inequality in this nation that does not exist in other rich nations. I am not anti-business, I am anti-bad business. I am pro-worker. Companies have an obligation to provide their employees with a living wage. We should be focused on bettering our nation through education and building infrastructure, yet all we do is pour our money into wars that help war profiteers and leave thousands of service members dead. Instead of focusing on things that matter, people are arguing over whether Obama's birth certificate is authentic.

[Ashmoria]

Isn't Obama still on vacation?

no

[Grave_n_idle]

Are you really cheering on obama for that

Well they need SOMETHING don't they? He's about to take credit for Iraqi success too.

I think he'll take credit for pulling troops out in the 18 month timetable he had set during the campaign. It's weird when a politician sticks to their word. I applaud my brothers and sisters coming home from that sandbox. They did their jobs and deserve the honor and respect they have lived up to.

We haven't withdrawn yet. We've simply left 50,000 troops behind and called them something else.

Affirmative action is discrimination. It gives preferential treatment.

That's only really a valid argument if the affirmative action ends up with a disproportionate presence of a given minority group.

If affirmative action only ends up limiting the selection of candidates up to a level that is representative of demographic presence, it's not really giving 'preference'.

It's not the governments job to make sure every business has workers that accurately portray the ethnic makeup of the nation; that's just micro-management taken to a moronic scale. What you're arguing is that 30 percent of hockey players should have not gotten their jobs because there are too many white hockey players already, or that a hockey team should be forced to hire an Asian hockey player who just learned to skate instead of an excellent white player.

I'm not arguing that, at all. I'm explaining the flaw in the argument that had been made against affirmative action - that it was giving preference.

But - why is it not the 'governments job' to ensure that minorities are fairly represented? That seems like one of the few things I would have thought we could all agree was a job for government - since it won't be self-regulated by those who most need regulating.

Not to say that every company needs to be micro-managed. Indeed, I'm not sure there's even been an argument for affirmative action to get that microcosmic. But I'd certainly be willing to accept argument that some form of 'affirmative action' is reasonable where government money changes hands.

[Macht der Ewigkeit]

during world war 2 we ended up occupying Germany and japan and if we pulled out of either country before the appropriate time Germany would be Russian and japan would have probably fell to china or Russia. Well here we are and guess what we are still in Germany and still in Japan, not bad considering we rebuilt both nations and they now have some of the strongest economies in the world. When it comes to going into Iraq well who else was going to prevent a oppressive government from slaughtering its neighbors or even some 30k of its own people for just being different.

[New Huxlian Orwell]

during world war 2 we ended up occupying Germany and japan and if we pulled out of either country before the appropriate time Germany would be Russian and japan would have probably fell to china or Russia. Well here we are and guess what we are still in Germany and still in Japan, not bad considering we rebuilt both nations and they now have some of the strongest economies in the world. When it comes to going into Iraq well who else was going to prevent a oppressive government from slaughtering its neighbors or even some 30k of its own people for just being different.

[Macht der Ewigkeit]

Are you really cheering on obama for that

Well they need SOMETHING don't they? He's about to take credit for Iraqi success too.

I think he'll take credit for pulling troops out in the 18 month timetable he had set during the campaign. It's weird when a politician sticks to their word. I applaud my brothers and sisters coming home from that sandbox. They did their jobs and deserve the honor and respect they have lived up to.

We haven't withdrawn yet. We've simply left 50,000 troops behind and called them something else.

Affirmative action is discrimination. It gives preferential treatment.

That's only really a valid argument if the affirmative action ends up with a disproportionate presence of a given minority group.

If affirmative action only ends up limiting the selection of candidates up to a level that is representative of demographic presence, it's not really giving 'preference'.

It's not the governments job to make sure every business has workers that accurately portray the ethnic makeup of the nation; that's just micro-management taken to a moronic scale. What you're arguing is that 30 percent of hockey players should have not gotten their jobs because there are too many white hockey players already, or that a hockey team should be forced to hire an Asian hockey player who just learned to skate instead of an excellent white player.

I'm not arguing that, at all. I'm explaining the flaw in the argument that had been made against affirmative action - that it was giving preference.

But - why is it not the 'governments job' to ensure that minorities are fairly represented? That seems like one of the few things I would have thought we could all agree was a job for government - since it won't be self-regulated by those who most need regulating.

Not to say that every company needs to be micro-managed. Indeed, I'm not sure there's even been an argument for affirmative action to get that microcosmic. But I'd certainly be willing to accept argument that some form of 'affirmative action' is reasonable where government money changes hands.

The problem is that the current affirmative action laws are a bit disproportionate and the pendulum should swing both ways. If workers are in short supply then i need to find a qualified individual and fast. If jobs are in short supply i have to keep the most qualified individuals so that i can bring productivity up so that later i can afford more workers. That is how it works. Affirmative action prevents that. Where i live every single person that works at McDonalds is a specific minority and that's fine as long as they are not choosing them just because of race but they are. Inf fact they are all family and that causes a problem.

[Macht der Ewigkeit]

during world war 2 we ended up occupying Germany and japan and if we pulled out of either country before the appropriate time Germany would be Russian and japan would have probably fell to china or Russia. Well here we are and guess what we are still in Germany and still in Japan, not bad considering we rebuilt both nations and they now have some of the strongest economies in the world. When it comes to going into Iraq well who else was going to prevent a oppressive government from slaughtering its neighbors or even some 30k of its own people for just being different.

oh good your speechless

[Grave_n_idle]

Whoopee doo. Now if he could just run the country, we'd be all set.

^This. While I appreciate his candor the masses are extremely stupid and he should move on to actually dealing with shit.

Huh, the guy has taken less vacation time than Dubya had at this point.

GWB did not golf or vacation once during Katrina. Obama golfed thrice during the oil spill catastrophe and vaca'd once and is planning another vacation.

Wait.. what? What's this ridiculous partisan revisionism? Bush was already a month into a five-week vacation when Katrina hit, and ended up cutting it short by a few days to return early so he could meet with advisers on the Wednesday. That's two days after Katrina's grand entrance, 6 am, Monday morning.

[Grave_n_idle]

during world war 2 we ended up occupying Germany and japan and if we pulled out of either country before the appropriate time Germany would be Russian and japan would have probably fell to china or Russia. Well here we are and guess what we are still in Germany and still in Japan, not bad considering we rebuilt both nations and they now have some of the strongest economies in the world. When it comes to going into Iraq well who else was going to prevent a oppressive government from slaughtering its neighbors or even some 30k of its own people for just being different.

Not sure what the relevance is... but, are you seriously making an argument that defends American intervention, anywhere, any time... based on an argument that it's 'good for them'?

[New Huxlian Orwell]

during world war 2 we ended up occupying Germany and japan and if we pulled out of either country before the appropriate time Germany would be Russian and japan would have probably fell to china or Russia. Well here we are and guess what we are still in Germany and still in Japan, not bad considering we rebuilt both nations and they now have some of the strongest economies in the world. When it comes to going into Iraq well who else was going to prevent a oppressive government from slaughtering its neighbors or even some 30k of its own people for just being different.

oh good your speechless

Yes because equating the illegal invasion of Iraq with WW2 is ridiculous.

[Zephie]

The problem is that the current affirmative action laws are a bit disproportionate and the pendulum should swing both ways. If workers are in short supply then i need to find a qualified individual and fast. If jobs are in short supply i have to keep the most qualified individuals so that i can bring productivity up so that later i can afford more workers. That is how it works. Affirmative action prevents that. Where i live every single person that works at McDonalds is a specific minority and that's fine as long as they are not choosing them just because of race but they are. Inf fact they are all family and that causes a problem.

Mhm. McDonalds even has a website for black careers.

http://www.365black.com/365black/whatis.jsp

At McDonald's®, we believe that African-American culture and achievement should be celebrated 365 days a year — not just during Black History Month.

[Galactic Sapian]

I seriously doubt he'll ever be able to effectively run the country, except into the ground.

This explains why the USA is still the largest economy in the world, has recovered from the Recession and isn't in the middle of a revolution with the streets running red with blood.

Go to Uzbekistan and see what it looks like when a leader is running their country into the ground. Until then, keep your partisan bullshit to yourself.

yeah, because Obama totally made the US economy the largest in the world, he got us out of the recession (even though the recession isn't even over and unemployment keeps going up), and saved america from a revolution....

[Zephie]

I seriously doubt he'll ever be able to effectively run the country, except into the ground.

This explains why the USA is still the largest economy in the world, has recovered from the Recession and isn't in the middle of a revolution with the streets running red with blood.

Go to Uzbekistan and see what it looks like when a leader is running their country into the ground. Until then, keep your partisan bullshit to yourself.

yeah, because Obama totally made the US economy the largest in the world, he got us out of the recession (even though the recession isn't even over and unemployment keeps going up), and saved america from a revolution....

As long as he has his clone army

[New Huxlian Orwell]

I seriously doubt he'll ever be able to effectively run the country, except into the ground.

This explains why the USA is still the largest economy in the world, has recovered from the Recession and isn't in the middle of a revolution with the streets running red with blood.

Go to Uzbekistan and see what it looks like when a leader is running their country into the ground. Until then, keep your partisan bullshit to yourself.

yeah, because Obama totally made the US economy the largest in the world, he got us out of the recession (even though the recession isn't even over and unemployment keeps going up), and saved america from a revolution....

Actually WW2 made us the largest economy in the world seeing since most of the rest of the industrialized world had been bombed to smithereens.

[Grave_n_idle]

The problem is that the current affirmative action laws are a bit disproportionate and the pendulum should swing both ways. If workers are in short supply then i need to find a qualified individual and fast. If jobs are in short supply i have to keep the most qualified individuals so that i can bring productivity up so that later i can afford more workers. That is how it works. Affirmative action prevents that. Where i live every single person that works at McDonalds is a specific minority and that's fine as long as they are not choosing them just because of race but they are. Inf fact they are all family and that causes a problem.

Really? Do you actually know anything about 'current affirmative action laws'? I'm not sure what your McDonald's anecdote is supposed to be evidence of, but I'm not seeing how it connects to current affirmative action law.

Maybe it's a state thing, but where I'm situated, 'affirmative action' doesn't affect McDonalds at all, because McDonalds is not a state (or federal) contractor or subcontractor, or educational establishment.

[Macht der Ewigkeit]

during world war 2 we ended up occupying Germany and japan and if we pulled out of either country before the appropriate time Germany would be Russian and japan would have probably fell to china or Russia. Well here we are and guess what we are still in Germany and still in Japan, not bad considering we rebuilt both nations and they now have some of the strongest economies in the world. When it comes to going into Iraq well who else was going to prevent a oppressive government from slaughtering its neighbors or even some 30k of its own people for just being different.

Not sure what the relevance is... but, are you seriously making an argument that defends American intervention, anywhere, any time... based on an argument that it's 'good for them'?

not exactly what i was saying. I was saying that we are responsible for what has happened to them because in 1991 we helped Iran fight off Iraq and told its people that we would free them from their dictatorship. When we pulled out a great many Iraqi people were killed just for wanting to make their own choices. We were responsible and are still responsible. If we pull out to early we make another Afghanistan and thousands more American hating people.

[Fred Fred Fred Fred]

Come on folks - get real. this is a great game we play - but we have the luxury of playing a game - called government. The only problem is that our game gives the rest of the world the "he-be-jeebies" . I'm reminded of the cartoon where the Republicans are complaining that no Democrat would run in 08 - that's not fare they say - we have to have someone to blame for the mess we created.

[Macht der Ewigkeit]

The problem is that the current affirmative action laws are a bit disproportionate and the pendulum should swing both ways. If workers are in short supply then i need to find a qualified individual and fast. If jobs are in short supply i have to keep the most qualified individuals so that i can bring productivity up so that later i can afford more workers. That is how it works. Affirmative action prevents that. Where i live every single person that works at McDonalds is a specific minority and that's fine as long as they are not choosing them just because of race but they are. Inf fact they are all family and that causes a problem.

Really? Do you actually know anything about 'current affirmative action laws'? I'm not sure what your McDonald's anecdote is supposed to be evidence of, but I'm not seeing how it connects to current affirmative action law.

Maybe it's a state thing, but where I'm situated, 'affirmative action' doesn't affect McDonalds at all, because McDonalds is not a state (or federal) contractor or subcontractor, or educational establishment.

must be a state thing because that's how it is here.

[Grave_n_idle]

The problem is that the current affirmative action laws are a bit disproportionate and the pendulum should swing both ways. If workers are in short supply then i need to find a qualified individual and fast. If jobs are in short supply i have to keep the most qualified individuals so that i can bring productivity up so that later i can afford more workers. That is how it works. Affirmative action prevents that. Where i live every single person that works at McDonalds is a specific minority and that's fine as long as they are not choosing them just because of race but they are. Inf fact they are all family and that causes a problem.

Really? Do you actually know anything about 'current affirmative action laws'? I'm not sure what your McDonald's anecdote is supposed to be evidence of, but I'm not seeing how it connects to current affirmative action law.

Maybe it's a state thing, but where I'm situated, 'affirmative action' doesn't affect McDonalds at all, because McDonalds is not a state (or federal) contractor or subcontractor, or educational establishment.

must be a state thing because that's how it is here.

Welcome to NSG. You'll hear the same refrain a lot: "Source"?