The swastika

[Karsol]

I don't think any symbol should be banned for any reason. And I feel it is strange to 'we gonna ban this symbol because some folks might get offended because of the murderous history it stood for' and then NOT BAN symbols of ideologies that have caused even more misery*.

* such as the cross, crescent moon and hammer/sickle

This has been explained, unlike those symbols the swastikas primary link in history is the death of millions.

In my opinion, it is no different from the others. Except that those have bodycounts many times of that of the swastika.

But intolerab;e death isn't the main image the other symbols imply.

[Mytannion]

My fathers jewish, many of my family were murdered in the holocaust, I associate it with the Nazi's, depending on what context it is displayed in, if it was on a blatantly 'nazi-ish' flag or website, then I would take it as offensive, but if it was on something else, which obviously wasn't, then I wouldn't find it offensive in the slightest.

[The Alma Mater]

But intolerab;e death isn't the main image the other symbols imply.

The swastika however is quite possibly the worlds holiest symbol. It was used on every continent by almost every major religion we know of throughout history in various form - far before Hitler saw it on a Norse artifact and found it fitting for his Aryan dream.

Why let the taint of Hitler pollute this global symbol of religion ?

[Farnhamia]

But intolerab;e death isn't the main image the other symbols imply.

The swastika however is quite possibly the worlds holiest symbol. It was used on every continent by almost every major religion we know of throughout history in various form - far before Hitler saw it on a Norse artifact and found it fitting for his Aryan dream.

Why let the taint of Hitler pollute this global symbol of religion ?

Because of the horrow he wrought with it as his talisman. Maybe in a few hundred years, but while people who suffered directly from the Nazi evil still live and are remembered? No.

[The Alma Mater]

But intolerab;e death isn't the main image the other symbols imply.

The swastika however is quite possibly the worlds holiest symbol. It was used on every continent by almost every major religion we know of throughout history in various form - far before Hitler saw it on a Norse artifact and found it fitting for his Aryan dream.

Why let the taint of Hitler pollute this global symbol of religion ?

Because of the horrow he wrought with it as his talisman. Maybe in a few hundred years, but while people who suffered directly from the Nazi evil still live and are remembered? No.

So - if tomorrow a tyrant plunges the world into chaos using a cross or crescent moon as a symbol, despite not actually being a Christian or Muslim, we should ban those as well ?

Awesome

[Farnhamia]

But intolerab;e death isn't the main image the other symbols imply.

The swastika however is quite possibly the worlds holiest symbol. It was used on every continent by almost every major religion we know of throughout history in various form - far before Hitler saw it on a Norse artifact and found it fitting for his Aryan dream.

Why let the taint of Hitler pollute this global symbol of religion ?

Because of the horrow he wrought with it as his talisman. Maybe in a few hundred years, but while people who suffered directly from the Nazi evil still live and are remembered? No.

So - if tomorrow a tyrant plunges the world into chaos using a cross or crescent moon as a symbol, despite not actually being a Christian or Muslim, we should ban those as well ?

Awesome

If it's as bad as what Hitler did and tried to do? That works for me.

[Coccygia]

Of course it should be a symbol of power and pride! The power and pride of the German people and their superiority over the subhuman races! Just like the Confederate Flag is a symbol of WhiteCaucasian Pride!

i think i fixed it.
am i right?

Erm...no.

The swastika is a rather widespread symbol... we can find it in almost all the ancient civilizations. Probably it was used to represent the sun in its presumed "rotation around the earth". As a symbol of light and life, it was associated to luck, peace and good health too.
About the Red Cross, it's symbol raised a lot of controversies too... because of the religious implications of the cross, although it actually comes from the Swiss national colours being inverted, as an homage to Switzerland which gave hospitality to the first Geneva Convention.

Unfortunately Adolf ruined it in perpetuity.

[NERVUN]

The swastika is a rather widespread symbol... we can find it in almost all the ancient civilizations. Probably it was used to represent the sun in its presumed "rotation around the earth". As a symbol of light and life, it was associated to luck, peace and good health too.
About the Red Cross, it's symbol raised a lot of controversies too... because of the religious implications of the cross, although it actually comes from the Swiss national colours being inverted, as an homage to Switzerland which gave hospitality to the first Geneva Convention.

Unfortunately Adolf ruined it in perpetuity.

I admit that it is a bit odd to see them. Japanese Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines use them a lot (Heck, Japanese maps mark temples WITH them) and every time I see it, my mind does NOT make the association with Buddism or Shinto, nor does it go to good luck, peace and light, but to Nazi Germany and the horrors that were unleashed.

Maybe one day...

[Demen]

The swastika is a rather widespread symbol... we can find it in almost all the ancient civilizations. Probably it was used to represent the sun in its presumed "rotation around the earth". As a symbol of light and life, it was associated to luck, peace and good health too.
About the Red Cross, it's symbol raised a lot of controversies too... because of the religious implications of the cross, although it actually comes from the Swiss national colours being inverted, as an homage to Switzerland which gave hospitality to the first Geneva Convention.

Unfortunately Adolf ruined it in perpetuity.

I admit that it is a bit odd to see them. Japanese Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines use them a lot (Heck, Japanese maps mark temples WITH them) and every time I see it, my mind does NOT make the association with Buddism or Shinto, nor does it go to good luck, peace and light, but to Nazi Germany and the horrors that were unleashed.

Maybe one day...

Max said no. and no means no.

[Zephie]

I do have a question on why the Swastika is banned. Yes hitler used it as a symbol of nazism and he killed millions but as was already said he didn't invent the swastika. By that logic the Sickle and Hammer should be banned because it was used by Stalin who killed millions MORE than Hitler did.

It's politically incorrect. I really don't understand why, I mean the swastika is such a basic shape, should we ban squares or triangles if some nation like Nazi Germany used that in their flag? Lots of nations, good and bad, have stars in their flags, why are stars not banned? I find it kind of strange people can have nations with "Nazi" in the name, but not a swastika. Not like I care, I hate fascists. It's a private website anyway.

Also if Max can get bothered by the U.N for using their symbol, I'm sure the ADL would be spamming his inbox if people were trolling the forums using swastikas in their flags

[NERVUN]

The swastika is a rather widespread symbol... we can find it in almost all the ancient civilizations. Probably it was used to represent the sun in its presumed "rotation around the earth". As a symbol of light and life, it was associated to luck, peace and good health too.
About the Red Cross, it's symbol raised a lot of controversies too... because of the religious implications of the cross, although it actually comes from the Swiss national colours being inverted, as an homage to Switzerland which gave hospitality to the first Geneva Convention.

Unfortunately Adolf ruined it in perpetuity.

I admit that it is a bit odd to see them. Japanese Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines use them a lot (Heck, Japanese maps mark temples WITH them) and every time I see it, my mind does NOT make the association with Buddism or Shinto, nor does it go to good luck, peace and light, but to Nazi Germany and the horrors that were unleashed.

Maybe one day...

Max said no. and no means no.

Um... you DID note the "Forum Moderator" bit... right?

[NERVUN]

I do have a question on why the Swastika is banned. Yes hitler used it as a symbol of nazism and he killed millions but as was already said he didn't invent the swastika. By that logic the Sickle and Hammer should be banned because it was used by Stalin who killed millions MORE than Hitler did.

It's politically incorrect. I really don't understand why, I mean the swastika is such a basic shape, should we ban squares or triangles if some nation like Nazi Germany used that in their flag? Lots of nations, good and bad, have stars in their flags, why are stars not banned? I find it kind of strange people can have nations with "Nazi" in the name, but not a swastika. Not like I care, I hate fascists. It's a private website anyway.

Also if Max can get bothered by the U.N for using their symbol, I'm sure the ADL would be spamming his inbox if people were trolling the forums using swastikas in their flags

As stated, the whole point being that it is rather hard to debate flags. Nations can be debated here because, well, they post here or you can send them a TG.

The .jpg or .gif however...

[Nazi Flower Power]

I do have a question on why the Swastika is banned. Yes hitler used it as a symbol of nazism and he killed millions but as was already said he didn't invent the swastika. By that logic the Sickle and Hammer should be banned because it was used by Stalin who killed millions MORE than Hitler did.

Exactly thats what i have been trying to get through to the mods on this site

And we've been saying for years, "Not happening cos Max and [violet] say so." That hasn't gotten through to some of you, apparently.

You know what they say: Hope springs eternal.

[Nazi Flower Power]

well the swastika means good luck thats all i know

Good luck surviving Auschwitz!

Who would send him to Auschwitz with that attitude?

[Daistallia 2104]

You know what they say: Hope springs eternal.

Or, as one of my favorite profs used to say any time a student uttered "I hope" while answering one of his more questions, "Ah, hope - the the last refuge of the desperate!" (There are other versions that are mot nearly as kind as that one...)

[Sarzonia]

It doesn't matter how the symbol was originally intended. What matters is how it's perceived by millions of people. The swastika is a symbol of the atrocities suffered by millions of people and is an emblem of a shameful episode in our world's history.

I say the same thing about the Confederate flag. It symbolises racism, bigotry, slavery, hatred. It is an emblem of a shameful episode in our nation's history.

[Nazi Flower Power]

As stated, the whole point being that it is rather hard to debate flags. Nations can be debated here because, well, they post here or you can send them a TG.

The .jpg or .gif however...

You can send someone a TG about their flag. I'll stick to swastika-free flags cos of the rules, but I'm just saying... A flag is no harder to debate than a nation name.

[Songnam]

Here's what I see... and have read:

Swastikas were used as norse imagery to show thor's hammer in flight
Swastikas are a symbol of good fortune (when not slanted)
Swastikas should not be used because they represent mass murder and anti semitism
Who gives a frak?

Okay, my opinion based on what I have read:
Since hitler killed millions of undesirables, we will ban a symbol instead of teaching the public about racial tolerance, which is kind of tragic we need to be taught that since we are all the same race. We are all human. Back to topic, so in the nuking of japan, we killed roughly 200,000 people, and if we count all the firebombing half a million plus two hundred thousand, we get 700,000 dead, over the course of three years. At least hitler's murders had some strategies: building up a nation from class a shithole, to military power. I condemn his methods, and his need for a scapegoat and ultranationalism.
Should we ban the picture of the US flag since we killed one tenth of what hitler frakked in three years and one day,
Should we ban the Rising Sun banner, since the Japanese raped Nanjing?
Should we ban the flag of a nation because of sins of our fathers, to make a point after we made one in blood, signed a treaty in blood, and had a perpetual, human civil war?
I don't. Do you?

[Katganistan]

Since hitler killed millions of undesirables

This is where I stopped reading.

Lrn2history. Thanks.

[NERVUN]

As stated, the whole point being that it is rather hard to debate flags. Nations can be debated here because, well, they post here or you can send them a TG.

The .jpg or .gif however...

You can send someone a TG about their flag. I'll stick to swastika-free flags cos of the rules, but I'm just saying... A flag is no harder to debate than a nation name.

Not the way the game uses it. For example, you can see the flags for various nations in different places without having the ability to respond to it and open debate.

[St George of England]

Since the mods all seem to be here, can they just lock this thread, please? Max banned the swatika, put up with it, end of (i hope).

[Daistallia 2104]

Here's what I see... and have read:

Swastikas were used as norse imagery to show thor's hammer in flight
Swastikas are a symbol of good fortune (when not slanted)
Swastikas should not be used because they represent mass murder and anti semitism

Go back and RTFT til you get that one right.

[The Alma Mater]

Here's what I see... and have read:

Swastikas were used as norse imagery to show thor's hammer in flight
Swastikas are a symbol of good fortune (when not slanted)
Swastikas should not be used because they represent mass murder and anti semitism

Go back and RTFT til you get that one right.

Eeehm - Swastikas ARE a symbol of good fortune in many religions.
As I said - it is a rather universal symbol.

[Daistallia 2104]

Eeehm - Swastikas ARE a symbol of good fortune in many religions.
As I said - it is a rather universal symbol.

LOL - you it completely. I wasn't on about that. The key was "when not slanted". The exchange with Thevenin on between pages 4 and 6 got rather acerbic.

[Cybach]

How does the swastika represent the holocaust in any form or fashion? The "Totenkopf" represents the holocaust. It was the symbol of the camps, the guards and the fanatic death divisions.

The swastika is merely the political symbol of the Third Reich. The Totenkopf was reserved solely for units engaged in the mass killings.