The swastika

[The Black Forrest]

Dude! Not all Nazis were bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Schindler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

So there were a couple "good" Nazi's.....What's your point?

That was my point, that there were a couple good Nazis.

I guess the follow up question would be "So?"

[Nazi Flower Power]

Only the weak willed and women (whom are weak willed) become rampaging consumers, which I assume you are addressing. I would much rather have a state that earns its loyalty and respect.

Knock off the sexist bullshit please.

[Reggenza del Carnaro]

I do have a question on why the Swastika is banned. Yes hitler used it as a symbol of nazism and he killed millions but as was already said he didn't invent the swastika. By that logic the Sickle and Hammer should be banned because it was used by Stalin who killed millions MORE than Hitler did.

Yes, but Nazis actively persecute a race, while communism is simply an ideology, one which anyone of ANY race can believe in.

And which one do you fear more, an ideology that persecutes a specified ethnicity or an ideology that kills everyone with equal gusto.

The thing is, killing indiscriminately isn't necessarily part of Communist ideology, whereas the elimination of the Jewish race is inherent in Nazism. It just so happens that all Communist leaders have been douches.

You are quite correct, death is infinately preferable to a true communist state where people are stripped of their individuality and ambition and forced into perpetual servitude like a common insect.

Suppose it may be a bit OT, but:
I still think Stalin was worse than Hitler... not just because he actually killed more people than his German rival, but because the main of said people were Russian and Commies too... at least Hitler killed people who he believed being ennemies of his Nation. About the genocide, it's true Hitler's hate towards Jews was probably to bring anyway to the so-called Final Solution, but it's also true that before other solutions have been searched. Usually people thinks that if Hitler had been able to conquer the whole world, he would have completed the Jews genocide... but in fact Hitler never intended to conquer the whole world. His 'lebensraum' was 'limited' (sic) to the Russian territory. (And of course to everything was between Germany and Russia).
About the Communist leaders... they always become douches after... after they are dead and have been replaced. Stalin became a tyrant after Krutschev said so... Mao ZeDong was one of the heroes of all the Communist supporters (the other being Che Guevara) till he died, same for Pol Pot (which is probably the worse of all those guys). Just wait, and Fidel Castro will have the same lot...

[Nazi Flower Power]

That was my point, that there were a couple good Nazis.

I guess the follow up question would be "So?"

So not all Nazis were bad. It's relevant to the post I was replying to.

[Mediterreania]

I do have a question on why the Swastika is banned. Yes hitler used it as a symbol of nazism and he killed millions but as was already said he didn't invent the swastika. By that logic the Sickle and Hammer should be banned because it was used by Stalin who killed millions MORE than Hitler did.

Yes, but Nazis actively persecute a race, while communism is simply an ideology, one which anyone of ANY race can believe in.

And which one do you fear more, an ideology that persecutes a specified ethnicity or an ideology that kills everyone with equal gusto.

The thing is, killing indiscriminately isn't necessarily part of Communist ideology, whereas the elimination of the Jewish race is inherent in Nazism. It just so happens that all Communist leaders have been douches.

You are quite correct, death is infinately preferable to a true communist state where people are stripped of their individuality and ambition and forced into perpetual servitude like a common insect.

Interesting.

[Sun Aut Ex]

Not holdomor again...
That was a famine, it's not actually known whether that was deliberate genocide with a convenience or the failings of a system.

The court ruled it genocide, but there was a huge famine across the soviet union, the resources had to go somewhere

Yeah, of course it wasn't genocide. They "accidentally" killed 3.2 million Ukrainians.

[Schwabenreich]

Not holdomor again...
That was a famine, it's not actually known whether that was deliberate genocide with a convenience or the failings of a system.

The court ruled it genocide, but there was a huge famine across the soviet union, the resources had to go somewhere

Yeah, of course it wasn't genocide. They "accidentally" killed 3.2 million Ukrainians.

They also told people, not to give them food.

Edit: Though honestly the whole arguement was beaten to death here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=48648 and despite the clear winners, it resulted in no change, why would it work this time?

[Der Teutoniker]

Actually, the Swastika, in a perfect world, would have returned to having its original connotation of being a symbol of good fortune.

Wait. So, in a perfect world, everyone could re-accept the Swastika as a good symbol?

But this perfect world also facilitates the Holocaust?

Half-Candide it sounds like.

[Risottia]

Well... the Cross itself was used by helpful missionaries, fanatic Inquisitors, and greedy conquistadores...
It could have been shaped differently but still was a cross... same for swastika.

Helpful missionaries ruining native cultures?

Come on, not all missionaries were bad.

Not all Nazis were bad.

Well, here in NS they have to be, it's compulsory.

What if I don't want to be bad?

ES IST VERBOTEN! SEI SCHLECHT UND BOESE! DAS IST EIN BEFEHL!

[Risottia]

The thing is, killing indiscriminately isn't necessarily part of Communist ideology, whereas the elimination of the Jewish race is inherent in Nazism. It just so happens that all Communist leaders have been douches.

You are quite correct, death is infinately preferable to a true communist state where people are stripped of their individuality and ambition and forced into perpetual servitude like a common insect.

Bit of a strawman, isn't it?.

Btw, SOME Communist leaders weren't douches. What about poor Dubcek?

[Expansionist Australia]

I do have a question on why the Swastika is banned. Yes hitler used it as a symbol of nazism and he killed millions but as was already said he didn't invent the swastika. By that logic the Sickle and Hammer should be banned because it was used by Stalin who killed millions MORE than Hitler did.

Exactly thats what i have been trying to get through to the mods on this site

[Daistallia 2104]

Exactly thats what i have been trying to get through to the mods on this site

Did you stop and think that maybe, just maybe, in the eight years before you arrived here Max might have heard and rejected the exact arguments you're making once or twice?

[Expansionist Australia]

who the hell is max ???

[Siseil Alanur]

who the hell is max ???

Max Barry is the creator of NationStates, so yeah.

[Daistallia 2104]

who the hell is max ???

Good Dog, do the nOObs not even bother with the basics anymore?

Max is just the guy who created and owns the site, and thus makes the rules that the mods take care of, and thus the guy you're railing about.

You might want to start here: http://www.nationstates.net/page=about

[Expansionist Australia]

thanks, lol mental blank there for a sec...

[Daistallia 2104]

Max Barry is the creator of NationStates, so yeah.

Second post no less - that get's you an old timer stamp of approval.

[DaWoad]

Max Barry is the creator of NationStates, so yeah.

Second post no less - that get's you an old timer stamp of approval.

seconded

[Reggenza del Carnaro]

I do have a question on why the Swastika is banned. Yes hitler used it as a symbol of nazism and he killed millions but as was already said he didn't invent the swastika. By that logic the Sickle and Hammer should be banned because it was used by Stalin who killed millions MORE than Hitler did.

Exactly thats what i have been trying to get through to the mods on this site

I wouldn't like a Politic-game without commies, although I'd greatly appreciate a real world without them... I personally don't agree with the 'swastika-ban' but I can understand why it was decided: apart from any personal belief, an authorized use of the swastika in the game would have rised too many disputes.

[Daistallia 2104]

thanks, lol mental blank there for a sec...

:::waves walking stick:::

kids these days gettin' on the grass, mumble, mumble, mumble, ain't got NO respect, mumble, mumble, mumble, we had to walk both ways in the snow just to post and we LIKED it, mumble, mumble, mumble...

[East Fancainia]

Actually, the Swastika, in a perfect world, would have returned to having its original connotation of being a symbol of good fortune.

and Peace, but yeah, same thing. I have Hindu friends with Swastikas in their house, and when Jewish people come over they scream "NAZI! NAZI HINDU!!! BLAME OR OUR PROBLEMS!!" So, really, the answer is learning about things that are important in school, and not "Music fundamentals".

[Reggenza del Carnaro]

<snip> I have Hindu friends with Swastikas in their house, and when Jewish people come over they scream "NAZI! NAZI HINDU!!! BLAME OR OUR PROBLEMS!!" <snip>.

... which is almost funny as both hindus and jews have troubles with muslims...

[East Fancainia]

<snip> I have Hindu friends with Swastikas in their house, and when Jewish people come over they scream "NAZI! NAZI HINDU!!! BLAME OR OUR PROBLEMS!!" <snip>.

... which is almost funny as both hindus and jews have troubles with muslims...

Jews & Hindus Versus Muslims? That'd be one smelly-ass battle...

[Valkenburg aan de Geul]

Even as a Jew I cant really see the problem with having the swastika in a flag on a game.

[New Colon]

That's only because games aren't officially recognized as art.