A Pound of Flesh? Two? All of it? (Drunk/drink Drivers)

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Really? Can you prove that all lives have value?

Well, if you take the path integral over all topologically trivial paths for an electron in an infinite potential well, you get an answer that has nothing to do with the value of human life.

In all seriousness, you can argue that humans have worth in terms of both economic value and in terms of the energy used to overcome entropy that went into the construction of their bodies.

And in terms of what their raw materials will fetch.

I dont believe you were beign asked 'if it can be argued' - I think you were being asked to 'prove' something.

But the value of raw materials really just is about the energy to overcome entropy. There is energy needed to produce higher elements than hydrogen, and there is energy needed in the construction of hadrons and leptons, though the later isn't necessarily of lower entropy than the background universe that existed at the time of their creation, because there doesn't seem to be any reason for generation 1 leptons to be unstable, and they are easily and readily created at high temperatures. But, of course, electrons don't have any value, they are ubiquitous and essentially free.

[Tahar Joblis]

The core problem is that cars receive a special legal "discount" in terms of manslaughter etc. If you accidentally kill someone with a vehicle, you receive a slap on the wrist.

There was a recent case that went through here in NC where a driver recklessly hit and killed a man on a scooter and drove off. He was, of course, speeding and driving recklessly, and leaving the scene of an accident, etc. He was handed the maximum possible sentence - which was only two years. Also in the news: An accidental shooting during a botched robbery of a movie theater, life sentence for the shooting alone.

If I accidentally kill somebody in the course of breaking the law, and I happen to be using a gun, I can go to jail for a very long time. If I'm using a car, however, I'll be out before you know it. The core problem of drunken driving is not any failure to crack down on drunk drivers; it's a failure to respect the fact that an automobile is a deadly weapon.

Heck, the automobile as property is respected more. People are regularly handed longer sentences for stealing cars than for killing people with cars. That's not justice, and drunk driving is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Grave_n_idle]

You want me to defend something you stitched from whole cloth?

I don't know who you think you are fooling. Not me. I hope not you.

You're making a claim that you're claiming is mine. When asked to defend it, you presented three of my posts, none of which says what you're claiming.

[Grave_n_idle]

People who were arrested and ordered to undergo some sort of program. The study was conducted in 2008, using 25,345 people with DUI convictions.

So - in fact, it's safe to assume that most people that drive drunk do it over and over again - until they get caught.

[Grave_n_idle]

But the value of raw materials really just is about the energy to overcome entropy.

No, it isn't.

If people were made of 50% gold, they'd be worth a lot more than they are. Not because of relative order or entropy, but because the materials are right there.

[Rolling squid]

People who were arrested and ordered to undergo some sort of program. The study was conducted in 2008, using 25,345 people with DUI convictions.

So - in fact, it's safe to assume that most people that drive drunk do it over and over again - until they get caught.

Source?

And again, you still fail to address how you can justify killing someone who didn't kill or injure anyone else.

[Grave_n_idle]

People who were arrested and ordered to undergo some sort of program. The study was conducted in 2008, using 25,345 people with DUI convictions.

So - in fact, it's safe to assume that most people that drive drunk do it over and over again - until they get caught.

Source?

And again, you still fail to address how you can justify killing someone who didn't kill or injure anyone else.

Okay - it was your claim that drunk-drivers don't re-offend.

When called on that, the evidence you provided ONLY accounts for a tiny minority, that have been caught and enrolled in some program. What about all the rest? It was your claim - I don't HAVE to source your claims for you.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

But the value of raw materials really just is about the energy to overcome entropy.

No, it isn't.

If people were made of 50% gold, they'd be worth a lot more than they are. Not because of relative order or entropy, but because the materials are right there.

Gold is made of exactly the same three particles as oxygen, so why is oxygen the third most common element in the universe and gold so rare? I think you should already know this, but it has to do with the fact that only elements up to iron can be made in ordinary fusion reactions. It has everything to do with energy. It is about energy. How is this not sinking in? Gold is more rare because it's creation is not energetically favorable in all but the most extreme conditions. It's rarity is directly due to the difficulty of its nucleosynthesis.

[The Cat-Tribe]

You want me to defend something you stitched from whole cloth?

I don't know who you think you are fooling. Not me. I hope not you.

You're making a claim that you're claiming is mine. When asked to defend it, you presented three of my posts, none of which says what you're claiming.

Fine.

So you agree that there are thresholds of alcohol consumption such that some drinking followed by driving is not necessarily wrong and should not be responded to by execution?

In other words, I can have a cocktail with dinner and drive home without being a drunk driver and subject to your draconian penalties.

[Rolling squid]

Okay - it was your claim that drunk-drivers don't re-offend.

When called on that, the evidence you provided ONLY accounts for a tiny minority, that have been caught and enrolled in some program. What about all the rest? It was your claim - I don't HAVE to source your claims for you.

Show me proof that only a tiny minority have been caught.

And again, you still fail to address how you can justify killing someone who didn't kill or injure anyone else.

[The Cat-Tribe]

So - in fact, it's safe to assume that most people that drive drunk do it over and over again - until they get caught.

Source?

And again, you still fail to address how you can justify killing someone who didn't kill or injure anyone else.

Okay - it was your claim that drunk-drivers don't re-offend.

When called on that, the evidence you provided ONLY accounts for a tiny minority, that have been caught and enrolled in some program. What about all the rest? It was your claim - I don't HAVE to source your claims for you.

Interesting point, but doesn't that argument rest on the premise that only a tiny minority of drunk drivers cause any injury and/or are caught?

[Big Jim P]

How about hiring professional drivers, getting them drunk, then play real life "Frogger" with the convicted drunk driver? Do it on a close circuit of course, and broadcast it on pay-per-view.

[United Russian State]

How about hiring professional drivers, getting them drunk, then play real life "Frogger" with the convicted drunk driver? Do it on a close circuit of course, and broadcast it on pay-per-view.

Best idea here!

[Big Jim P]

How about hiring professional drivers, getting them drunk, then play real life "Frogger" with the convicted drunk driver? Do it on a close circuit of course, and broadcast it on pay-per-view.

Best idea here!

I have my moments.