Chinese college students forget how to write

[Risottia]

What do you think of this? Do you think Chinese characters and Japanese kanji will eventually be replaced by phonetic transliterations in the next few decades or centuries?

Yes. Alphabets are simpler and more flexible.

How much of a problem is it if these traditional writing systems are wiped out by electronic media?

They'll just have to romanize their whole thesaurus.

[Risottia]

...several languages like Chinese, English, Klingon, Summarian etc.

...which is the language used to write summaries, I guess.

[Canarthia]

Actully, Mao got a plan to romanize Chinese by introducing simplified characters to replace some complex parts in a character, then when people get used to the new system, a second set of simplified characters, which contains more characters then the first one would be introduced. After that, some characters would be abolished and alphabets would fill the gap, then later all(or nearly all) characters would be abandoned and Chinese would be written in alphabets.

[Nobel Hobos]

I just got an email with this weird story about Asians who literally forget how to write their native langauge because they use phonetic transliterations so much on the computer and in text messages.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100826/tc ... technology

I find it funny, but at the same time it's kind of sad. What do you think of this? Do you think Chinese characters and Japanese kanji will eventually be replaced by phonetic transliterations in the next few decades or centuries? How much of a problem is it if these traditional writing systems are wiped out by electronic media?

There is technology that can be used to input characters into electronic devices, but is that really as practical as using a phonetic system of typing and writing? Obviously, it is possible to continue using characters, but do you think it's practical?

The Latin alphabet (the alphabet which we write English in) isn't suited to keyboard use either.

We should reform it to use only ten letters. Words would be longer, yet take less time to type.

[Nobel Hobos]

i think they'll move to english on the computer and use their own languages in the rest of their lives. its just too hard to read chinese in transliteration.

If we're talking about college students (the educated professionals of the future) then that would be disastrous for China. "On the computer" and "in the rest of your life" isn't a clear distinction, and it becomes less clear with every passing year! Educated professionals need to write (ie type) and also to talk, about the very same things in their professional role. Typing in one language, and talking face-to-face in another, would seriously impair their professional competence in a world marketplace.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

We should reform it to use only ten letters. Words would be longer, yet take less time to type.

10 letters? I'm concerned that this would make the internet-influenced literacy problem worse.

[Hornopolis]

How could they manage that? They created writing..

Not even close. The Sumerians were millenia earlier.

Obviously it was me being racist and stereotyping Chinese. For lulz of course.

[Angleter]

They should use Hangeul. The simplicity of an alphabetised system, the paper-saving qualities of syllabic blocks, and still with an Eastern flavour. Naturally, the stringent rules on consonant clusters would need relaxing, and some new jamo would need introduction.

[Arthropoda Ingens]

A major reason the traditional chinese writing system continues to exist is that chinese is a monosyllabic language - using alphabetic writing risks a great deal of confusions, as homonyms are perversely common in the spoken language - alphabetic writing makes it a lot more difficult to differentiate them in the written language. There is also the issue of regional dialects that have had millenia, rather than mere centuries (As in the west) to develop - the logographic writing system in use allows communication across these dialect boundaries, something that'd likewise be much more difficult if they started writing phonetically, as is inevitable with an alphabetic writing system.

That aside, it shouldn't be forgotten that although alphabetic writing systems push out their logographic predecessors, they don't do so instantaneously. The mesopotamian civilisations had contact with alphabetic writing systems since around 1000 B.C. - and while aramaic did relatively quickly become the standard 'Civilian' writing system, cuneiform continued to be written until a few centuries A.D., and remained dominant for 'Official' use until the end of the neo-babylonian empire, a good five-hundred years.

Egyptian hieroglyphs and demotic likewise managed to survive until a few centuries A.D., despite spending their last seven-hundred years under foreign regimes using alphabetic writing systems.

The chinese haven't had in-dephts contact with alphabetic writing systems until the 19th century (Prev ious contacts between 800 A.D. & then were typically on a somewhat limited basis). They're still taking their time to adjust. No doubt - eventually, their logographic writing system will go. No logographic writing system has ever survived contact with an alphabetic one. But it's a slow death, and may well take a few centuries.

[Risottia]

A major reason the traditional chinese writing system continues to exist is that chinese is a monosyllabic language - using alphabetic writing risks a great deal of confusions, as homonyms are perversely common in the spoken language - alphabetic writing makes it a lot more difficult to differentiate them in the written language.

No. That's why there are diacritics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin

[Angleter]

A major reason the traditional chinese writing system continues to exist is that chinese is a monosyllabic language - using alphabetic writing risks a great deal of confusions, as homonyms are perversely common in the spoken language - alphabetic writing makes it a lot more difficult to differentiate them in the written language.

No. That's why there are diacritics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin

But English people don't take them into account, they can mean different things in different languages- increasing the chance of mispronunciation, and in the case of Vietnamese there are so many different diacritics on different letters it just looks bloody ludicrous.

[Risottia]

A major reason the traditional chinese writing system continues to exist is that chinese is a monosyllabic language - using alphabetic writing risks a great deal of confusions, as homonyms are perversely common in the spoken language - alphabetic writing makes it a lot more difficult to differentiate them in the written language.

No. That's why there are diacritics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin

But English people don't take them into account, they can mean different things in different languages- increasing the chance of mispronunciation, and in the case of Vietnamese there are so many different diacritics on different letters it just looks bloody ludicrous.

Too bad for the Anglophone monoglots.

[Angleter]

A major reason the traditional chinese writing system continues to exist is that chinese is a monosyllabic language - using alphabetic writing risks a great deal of confusions, as homonyms are perversely common in the spoken language - alphabetic writing makes it a lot more difficult to differentiate them in the written language.

No. That's why there are diacritics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin

But English people don't take them into account, they can mean different things in different languages- increasing the chance of mispronunciation, and in the case of Vietnamese there are so many different diacritics on different letters it just looks bloody ludicrous.

Too bad for the Anglophone monoglots.

Sự phá hoaị của Giống Kiến Lửa Du Nhập RIFA (Red Imported Fire Ant) đã đủợc phát hiện gần hay ngay tại hạt nơi quý vị cư ngụ. Loại kiến này là một loại côn trùng phá hoại nguy hiểm và chúng tôi cần sự giúp đỡ của quý vị để xác định những địa điểm bị phá hoại trong khu vực cư ngụ của quý vị.

Ngoài sự đe doạ mà giống kiến lửa du nhập RIFA gây cho nền canh nông của California, chúng còn là một sự nguy cơ trầm trọng cho sức khỏe của con người.

Giống Kiến Lửa Du Nhập này rất hung hãn và sẵn sàng châm đốt bất kỳ thứ gì gây xáo trộn cho chúng. Điển hình là những con kiến thợ RIFA túa ra từ chỗ đàn kiến bị xào trộn và nhanh chóng bò lên bất kỳ nơi nào mà chúng coi như là một đe doạ cho bầy kiến. Chúng lấy miệng bám chặt và rồi châm đốt túi bụi không ngừng. Nọc độc của chúng được chích vào da và gây nên một cảm giác rát phỏng đau nhói ở chỗ bị đốt và sau đó một nốt mụn nổi lên.

I mean look at it- some of the letters have TWO diacritics on them! You're telling me you'd have no problem with that?

[Nazi Flower Power]

I just got an email with this weird story about Asians who literally forget how to write their native langauge because they use phonetic transliterations so much on the computer and in text messages.

Doesn't happen in English because of text messaging, don't see why it'd be the case for the Chinese.

Was explained in the article why it happens for the Chinese...

[Nazi Flower Power]

A major reason the traditional chinese writing system continues to exist is that chinese is a monosyllabic language - using alphabetic writing risks a great deal of confusions, as homonyms are perversely common in the spoken language - alphabetic writing makes it a lot more difficult to differentiate them in the written language.

No. That's why there are diacritics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin

Even with the tone marks, there are many cases where two or more characters have the EXACT same pinyin -- even the same tone.

Since people can understand spoken Chinese, they could presumably figure out how to communicate in pinyin despite the homophones, but it would take a lot of getting used to. I figure there will be a long slow process of pinyin being used more and more, but people will still use the characters some places for the fact that they are more stylish -- similar to how mainland Chinese still use the traditional (as opposed to simplified) characters on labels to make their products look classy and old-school.

[Nobel Hobos]

"Monoglot" is a great word. Even knowing what it means, it sounds insulting.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

We should reform it to use only ten letters. Words would be longer, yet take less time to type.

10 letters? I'm concerned that this would make the internet-influenced literacy problem worse.

Oh, by the way Nobel Hobos, I'm quite interested as to what you think the ten letters should be.

[Risottia]

I mean look at it- some of the letters have TWO diacritics on them! You're telling me you'd have no problem with that?

No, no problem at all.
You see, I've been taught Ancient Greek. You could even have letters with THREE diacritics on them (between spirit, stress, length mark, diaeresis).

[Arranfirangia]

i think the japannese and korean use of a syllabary and pictoral character system can help with this problem

[Nazis in Space]

i think the japannese and korean use of a syllabary and pictoral character system can help with this problem

The japanese do. Hangul (The Korean script) on the other hand, is wholly alphabetic, and started out this way (Designed specifically to replace chinese writing with something simpler - analogous to how the phoenician alphabet began as an effort to get rid of the ridiculously complex hieratic & cuneiform), although they sometimes throw in chinese characters just to appear smart.

This does relativise my previous claim that the chinese haven't had continuous contact with an alphabetic script before the 18, 19th century, though. Turns out they actually did a century before Europeans first showed up. Somehow resisted the compelling simplicity of Korean, anyway. A pity, really.

[Blouman Empire]

We should reform it to use only ten letters. Words would be longer, yet take less time to type.

So you mean Welsh?

[Greed and Death]

How could they manage that? They created writing..

Just means their system is a few thousand years out of date.

[Arranfirangia]

i think the japannese and korean use of a syllabary and pictoral character system can help with this problem

The japanese do. Hangul (The Korean script) on the other hand, is wholly alphabetic, and started out this way (Designed specifically to replace chinese writing with something simpler - analogous to how the phoenician alphabet began as an effort to get rid of the ridiculously complex hieratic & cuneiform), although they sometimes throw in chinese characters just to appear smart.

This does relativise my previous claim that the chinese haven't had continuous contact with an alphabetic script before the 18, 19th century, though. Turns out they actually did a century before Europeans first showed up. Somehow resisted the compelling simplicity of Korean, anyway. A pity, really.

Wait, isn't hanja (CHinese characters if Im not mistakened) used in daily life?

[The Andromeda Islands]

I just got an email with this weird story about Asians who literally forget how to write their native langauge because they use phonetic transliterations so much on the computer and in text messages.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100826/tc ... technology

I find it funny, but at the same time it's kind of sad. What do you think of this? Do you think Chinese characters and Japanese kanji will eventually be replaced by phonetic transliterations in the next few decades or centuries? How much of a problem is it if these traditional writing systems are wiped out by electronic media?

There is technology that can be used to input characters into electronic devices, but is that really as practical as using a phonetic system of typing and writing? Obviously, it is possible to continue using characters, but do you think it's practical?

It's not practical!

In Korea, the chinese characters were replaced by Hangul letters centuries ago. It was much more practical and aided in the spread of the Korean writing system across the peninsula.

The chinese and japanese writing systems are becoming victims to the digital age. It's just not practical to keep using those systems.

[Greed and Death]

i think the japannese and korean use of a syllabary and pictoral character system can help with this problem

The japanese do. Hangul (The Korean script) on the other hand, is wholly alphabetic, and started out this way (Designed specifically to replace chinese writing with something simpler - analogous to how the phoenician alphabet began as an effort to get rid of the ridiculously complex hieratic & cuneiform), although they sometimes throw in chinese characters just to appear smart.

This does relativise my previous claim that the chinese haven't had continuous contact with an alphabetic script before the 18, 19th century, though. Turns out they actually did a century before Europeans first showed up. Somehow resisted the compelling simplicity of Korean, anyway. A pity, really.

Wait, isn't hanja (CHinese characters if Im not mistakened) used in daily life?

not really no.
Maybe a Korean a uses it to sign his name, or its used in a news paper for the name of a country. maybe a few old fashioned businesses use Chinese letter on their signs.
But very fewer and fewer places are doing that. Korea is like 95% Korean language, and most of the other 5% is English.