Angleter wrote:I've changed my vote to Atheists, on the grounds that barely anybody ever spells their name right, and they are invariably misrepresented as 'Athiests'.
Poor guys. Misspelled by all those people that forgot 3rd grade.
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by Himeu » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:05 pm
Angleter wrote:I've changed my vote to Atheists, on the grounds that barely anybody ever spells their name right, and they are invariably misrepresented as 'Athiests'.
by Nazis in Space » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:09 pm
Pretty much everyone, really. Unless they enslaved them instead. The idea that 'Innocence' or 'Women' or 'Children' should be spared is as new as it is, historically speaking, abnormal. No neolithic tribesman would get the idea that he shouldn't murder the fuck out of his neighbors sitting on land his tribe needs because they're supposedly 'Innocent' - that'd defeat the point of killing them and stealing their land, no? 'Innocence' doesn't matter. That they're in the way does.Angleter wrote:It's not uncommon. So did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Charles Taylor, Mussolini, Enver Pasha, etc.
by Nazi Flower Power » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:15 pm
Nazis in Space wrote:And it's really only in the post-vietnam era that 'Sparing Enemy Civilians has been taken seriously - by a handful of countries in the west. Nobody else. It's a remarkably historical outlier, most unusual and essentially without precedence.
by Reggenza del Carnaro » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:16 pm
by Abdju » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:20 pm
by Abdju » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:21 pm
by Nazis in Space » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:21 pm
by Urcea » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:24 pm
by Reggenza del Carnaro » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:26 pm
Nazis in Space wrote:Pretty much everyone, really. Unless they enslaved them instead. The idea that 'Innocence' or 'Women' or 'Children' should be spared is as new as it is, historically speaking, abnormal. No neolithic tribesman would get the idea that he shouldn't murder the fuck out of his neighbors sitting on land his tribe needs because they're supposedly 'Innocent' - that'd defeat the point of killing them and stealing their land, no? 'Innocence' doesn't matter. That they're in the way does.Angleter wrote:It's not uncommon. So did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Charles Taylor, Mussolini, Enver Pasha, etc.
Even supposedly 'Civilised' nations certainly didn't have a problem gassing and slaughtering people they weren't exceedingly close on a cultural, linguistic, phenotypical and genetic basis - murdering each other's civilians may not have been considered appropriate in the conflicts over Italy between, say, France and Austria, but it sure as hell was the way to go when it came to pacifying Algeria. Just because America considered it improper to for Germans to sink a couple Americans sailing into a warzone didn't mean it hadn't been quite cool with banging injun babies in the heads with revolvers (Using rifles sprayed their organs to much - actual quote) just a couple decades previously. And the British empire saw nothing wrong with machinegunning negros and indians at every opportunity, or making sure that Tasmanians didn't come in the way of their farmers (Very successfully so. Tasmanians went extinct) in the 19th and 20th century.
Even the supposedly 'Good' guys in WW2 were perfectly happy to murder civilians when it suited their ends - the entire strategic bombing campaign was specifically designed (Pre-war even. The US & Britain were the only countries to adopt Douhet's doctrines wholesale) as a terror campaign to kill and terrify as many civilians as possible.
The idea that 'Civilians are to be spared' is, as a rule, mere propaganda (If it exists at all) and merely applies to the other side - your side obviously isn't supposed to confirm to such silly standards.
And it's really only in the post-vietnam era that 'Sparing Enemy Civilians has been taken seriously - by a handful of countries in the west. Nobody else. It's a remarkably historical outlier, most unusual and essentially without precedence.
by Nazi Flower Power » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:28 pm
Urcea wrote:Clearly the Jews, but those making a case for Germans have a legitimate point. I consider expulsion of Germans one of the greatest crimes of the modern era.
by Middle of somewhere » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:33 pm
by Kryozerkia » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:37 pm
by Peppersmak » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:44 pm
Nazi Flower Power wrote:Peppersmak wrote:We will never know the true number. Now days low estimates are in the 50.000-100.000 range, while the high accepted number is about 5.6 million. The truth is somewhere in the middle, but we will never know. However it does not matter, one person is one too many.
I can't tell if you're talking about people in general or only Jews.
by Militire » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:12 pm
by Himeu » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:15 pm
Nazis in Space wrote:I made the point earlier, and seriously... It applies. That the nazis murdered millions of people disturbed no-one. It was par for the course. What disturbed everyone was that they murdered white people.
If they'd murdered chinese, only the chinese would care, nobody else would even remember it (No, really. Nazis always lead the 'Evillest People evar' polls in the west, the japanese get at best a mention for creating Dragonball & Pokemon. Seventeen million murdered chinese between '37 & '45? White people don't remember this shit. Section 731? Mengele was evil, that the Japs ever did similar things is basically unknown to the public memory).
That's why it is, as a rule, illuminating to learn how nazis are viewed by cultures who were only tangentially involved. There's plenty of Indians who think that the Nazis were pretty cool. Sure, they were oppressive, but hardly more so than the British were in India, and hey, they did kick Britain in the face. Which is something Indians like. Holocaust? Eh.. It happens. Statistical outlier.
Likewise for Koreans or the Chinese. Nazis? Yeah... Some stuff in Europe. Now, the Japanese were monsters... But hey, a nazi actually saved several hundred thousand chinese from the advancing japanese mass-murderers! Nazis are totally spiffy.
One has to take a remarkably white point of view to view Nazis as the 'Evillest Thing Ever', and it's nothing less than insulting to not only believe this (That's okay if you're white...
You've a limited cultural horizon), but insist that all the brown and yellow people who suffered just as bad, if not worse (Jews still exist post-holocaust. Now find me a Tasmanian...) from
their oppressors take the same view as you... Just because you're staggeringly clueless about their history.
by Nazi Flower Power » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:17 pm
Himeu wrote:Take a gander at history book The Nazis killed many ethnicites in the American army. It had nothing to do with white people. It wasthe fact that they killed mercilessly.
by Himeu » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:19 pm
by Middle of somewhere » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Militire wrote:What about the treatment of the Japenese on the west coast of Canada, Or WW1 Canadian concentration camps? I know that they weren't as bad as their opponent's POW camps, but they were pretty shitty places to live.
by Reggenza del Carnaro » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Himeu wrote:Nazis in Space wrote:I made the point earlier, and seriously... It applies. That the nazis murdered millions of people disturbed no-one. It was par for the course. What disturbed everyone was that they murdered white people.
If they'd murdered chinese, only the chinese would care, nobody else would even remember it (No, really. Nazis always lead the 'Evillest People evar' polls in the west, the japanese get at best a mention for creating Dragonball & Pokemon. Seventeen million murdered chinese between '37 & '45? White people don't remember this shit. Section 731? Mengele was evil, that the Japs ever did similar things is basically unknown to the public memory).
That's why it is, as a rule, illuminating to learn how nazis are viewed by cultures who were only tangentially involved. There's plenty of Indians who think that the Nazis were pretty cool. Sure, they were oppressive, but hardly more so than the British were in India, and hey, they did kick Britain in the face. Which is something Indians like. Holocaust? Eh.. It happens. Statistical outlier.
Likewise for Koreans or the Chinese. Nazis? Yeah... Some stuff in Europe. Now, the Japanese were monsters... But hey, a nazi actually saved several hundred thousand chinese from the advancing japanese mass-murderers! Nazis are totally spiffy.
One has to take a remarkably white point of view to view Nazis as the 'Evillest Thing Ever', and it's nothing less than insulting to not only believe this (That's okay if you're white...
You've a limited cultural horizon), but insist that all the brown and yellow people who suffered just as bad, if not worse (Jews still exist post-holocaust. Now find me a Tasmanian...) from
their oppressors take the same view as you... Just because you're staggeringly clueless about their history.
Take a gander at history book The Nazis killed many ethnicites in the American army. It had nothing to do with white people. It wasthe fact that they killed mercilessly.
by Militire » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:22 pm
Middle of somewhere wrote:Militire wrote:What about the treatment of the Japenese on the west coast of Canada, Or WW1 Canadian concentration camps? I know that they weren't as bad as their opponent's POW camps, but they were pretty shitty places to live.
Things were way worse than that too be considered the most discriminated
by EvilDarkMagicians » Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:23 pm
The Cat-Tribe wrote:Don't care. It is not a contest. There is no prize.
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